Souls - lost and found

You know, I had to have one of our dogs put to “sleep” yesterday – it was probably one of the most difficult decisions I have ever made in my life. You know they become our “children” and all seem to have their own ways and characters and little idiosyncrasies. I have had a number of our pets die and put to sleep for various reasons – age, illness etc etc

Now, to get back to the reason I am posting; do animals have souls? I mean, if people have seen ghosts of animals i.e. dogs etc, is it not also possible that they would go to the “better place” or just get stuck here if it was a sudden death or something to the like.

I guess my next question is based the fact that a soul has no sex, therefore, could it also be true that a soul has no “form” or species? Is it not possible for us to a fly in our next life??? Hey just questions!

I would be interested to know if we would ever see our families or pets when we pass?! However, it may also be possible that, because we are not “people” when we pass, it may also be true that we may just be inert energy ready to be “reincarnated” or something to the like. Also, perhaps we only get reincarnated as many times as we need to learn new things and experience different things.

But, if you sin, you don’t go to hell, you just die – period. Your soul dies! If you do not sin, you will have eternal life (bible type stuff) Like I says in the bible, if you believe in God you will have eternal life, if you do not, you will die. Clear and simple! It is subjective but then again, who the hell knows.

So, do animals have souls?? I believe they do, but does anyone know? Perhaps not conclusively but is there some kind of “proof” or indication of their possible existence?

Would we start off as new souls as viruses (LOL) or flies and then “graduate to higher beings/lifeforms. Ok perhaps I may sound a little daft perhaps my questions are not so stupid??!!

I truly believe they have souls.....but different than human beings.

Ecclesiastes 3:19-21
For the lot of man and of beast is one lot; the one dies as well as the other. Both have the same life-breath, and man has no advantage over the beast; but all is vanity. Both go to the same place; both were made from the dust, and to the dust they both return. Who knows if the life-breath of the children of men goes upward and the life-breath of beasts goes earthward?

Job 12:7-10
You have only to ask the cattle, for them to instruct you, and the birds of the sky, for them to inform you. The creeping things of earth will give you lessons, and the fish of the sea provide you an explanation: there is not one such creature but will know that the hand of God has arranged things like this! In his hand is the soul of every living thing and the breath of every human being!

[edit on 6-2-2007 by rocknroll]

Animals (not all) often have human-like reactions/attitudes, they can display feelings of sadness, happiness, anger, confusion, playfulness, fear, etc.
And alot of animals react best to Love!

Originally posted by rocknroll
Animals (not all) often have human-like reactions/attitudes, they can display feelings of sadness, happiness, anger, confusion, playfulness, fear, etc.
And alot of animals react best to Love!

Oh Hell yes!! If i consider our dogs - So human like and they know when you are sad. Yesterday when we took our dog to the vet I believe she KNEW she was going to die - she kept looking out the window and giving little moans like she wanted to go home. She was in there overnight and I know she knew that this was her last few moments. I could see the sadness in her eyes the way she looked at me with this plea in her eyes that she just wants to go home.

She is being cremated in the next day or so and we will fetch her ashes and sprinkle then over her favourite spot in the garden.

I believe dogs truly ARE man’s best friend. I drove over her with the car – I didn’t see her at all – and she didn’t get all mad with me like a human would. She was a very special little dog. The vet could help her but it wasn’t 100% certain whether she would regain her quality of life so I guess, and I hope, I made the most humane decision but it feels like I sentenced her to death and se had no say in the matter though I know she wanted to go home and I just let them put her to sleep. My heart was telling me so many other things and reasons to keep her alive but my head had to make the most sensible decision – and I hope it was the best decision. I do hope I can see the dogs, I have lost over the years, when I pass.

Sorry about your loss, Shearder. Losing a pet under any circumstances is a really painful experience.

As you say, our dogs (and other pets) are able to understand us better than anyone we know. They seem to read our minds. They never judge us. They love us unconditionally. They forgive us as easily as they breathe.

If your dog seemed as if she wanted to go home rather than to the vet, it would have been because yes, she probably did understand your decision, but even though she was in pain, she didn't want to leave you. She would have known how sad you were.

After our dog died, I spoke to him .. with my mind. I told him he'd done a great job all those years and now it was time for him to have well-earned rest. I told him not to worry about us -- that we loved him and always would, but now it was time for him to move on and have some fun and we'd see him soon.

He was such a loyal and devoted friend and I was worried he'd try to stay, or come back in spirit to take care of us. I didn't want him to get stuck on this plane. So even though I was absolutely heartbroken (we all were) I was firm with him. And I was firm with myself and made myself do what was best for him, even though I would have given everything I owned to have him back again. For a few days after he died, all we did was cry -- the entire family. But then I told myself and the rest of the family that we had to stop grieving now and be strong, or we'd hold him back and make him feel guilty.

About a month after our dog died, I went to bed late one night and felt a warm patch at the end of the bed. It was cool weather. The rest of the bed was cold. The warm patch was where he used to lie sometimes. Nothing like it had ever happened before. There was no other explanation for the warm patch. I sensed straight away that he was there. So I told him how much we loved and valued him, and again told him it was his time to move forward and we looked forward to seeing him when our turn came. It was hard to do, but it was best for him.

I prayed that he would be loved and cared for by compassionate spirits and asked them to assure him that we loved him.

Our dog was 16. He had cancer. He'd endured two operations in our desperate attempts to keep him with us. The vet told us there was nothing more that could be done. The cancer came back. The vet said that when we'd prepared ourselves, he would come and administer a lethal dose. Although we could see the growth in our dog's mouth, the rest of his body was as strong and healthy as ever. Our children begged me not to call the vet just yet. I think they were hoping their prayers could reverse our dog's illness.

One night I had a dream. In the dream, our dog said to me: " You know what you have to do, don't you. "

Next morning, as soon as I awoke, I went to my son's room. Our dog was sitting on the end of my son's bed. I looked at our dog and he looked back at me. The expression on his face was the same as in the dream, and with his mind, our dog again told me that it was time to summon the vet. With my mind, I apologised for not doing so sooner. Then I rang the vet.

We spent the whole day with our dog, doing all the things he liked. Then at the arranged time, the vet arrived.

We were all there, surrounding our dog, holding him and patting him. He didn't bark or jump around when the vet came, the way he would usually have done. He was very calm, as if he was aware of the reason for the vet's arrival. Then the vet took out his clippers and shaved off a small patch of hair near his foot, in preparation for the lethal injection.

Our dog had very sensitive feet and didn't even like us to touch them. Yet he didn't make any objection when the vet took hold of his foot and used the clippers. Instead, he settled deeper into our arms and rested his head on his other foot and closed his eyes. We were all very surprised. It was as if he knew what was about to happen --- and was relieved.

The vet injected the solution.

I mistakenly believed that the lethal injection would take five or ten minutes to take effect.

But almost immediately, I saw something rise up from our dog. It was so fast ! It rose up and it was visible ! Then in a split second, it was gone. I can't tell you how fast it was. It was misty, similar to smoke or mist. It could only have been our dog's spirit. I've never seen anything like it before or since.

My son also saw it and a roar of grief burst from him and shattered the silence as he called our dog's name. I knew he'd seen the spirit rise up and disappear, too.

I swung to the vet in surprise and shock, because I hadn't known all of this would happen so swiftly.

The vet seemed transfixed. I realised he'd also seen our dog's spirit leave his body.

The vet's eyes looked watery. He just sat there a moment, staring inwardly, really. Then he covered his emotions by packing things into his bag.

The moment his spirit rose from his body, you could tell our dog was gone. You could feel the difference in the atmosphere. We all could, even though physically, he just looked as if he was sleeping.

Two days later, the vet sent us a handwritten sympathy card to say it had been a very moving experience and he hoped we were ok. He ran a very busy practice and to be honest, even though he was an excellent vet, I'd previously always thought him to be quite cold and clinical. Seeing our dog's spirit must have been a profound moment for him. It certainly was for us.

I've told a few people that we saw our dog's spirit depart and that it was so fast. Some of them have looked at me with frankly sceptical expressions.

But I assure you, it happened just as I've reported. I didn't expect to see anything at all and thought that after the injection, our dog would just get sleepier and sleepier until he ceased breathing. I thought it would take quite a while. I didn't know it would be so fast. To be honest, I hadn't allowed myself to think about what would happen, beforehand. So what I saw wasn't the result of preconceived ideas. It actually happened and it took me totally by surprise. From this I can tell you, based on personal experience, that yes, animals DO have souls. No one will convince me otherwise after what I saw.

In the following post, I'll relate some real life reports of animal spirits.

Some years ago I read a book which included the following story, but I can't remember the title of the book, sorry, or its author. But it could have been one by Scott Rogo. I'm not sure.

The story concerned an old solider from the UK, who'd been in WW1. In later life he had a heart attack. He learned afterwards that while doctors were working to save him, he had an Out of Body or Near Death experience.

The old man was not happy to find himself back in the land of the living. While doctors were working on his body, he felt a rushing sound and everything went black, then he saw a small light. He was rushed towards it. The light grew brighter and larger. Then light was everywhere and he saw a beautiful place where the colours were more wonderful than any place he'd ever seen in his life. He landed in a beautiful meadow. And there, waiting for him, was a horse he'd known and loved many decades before, during the war. They'd formed a strong and loving bond during their years together.

The horse had died in the war. Yet here it was, waiting for him and nuzzling his hand happily. It looked just as it had in the prime of life. The the last time the old man had seen it was as it lay dying, in the roar and mud of battle.

The old man was overcome with joy to see his horse and to see it so well and happy, the way it had been when they were both young. For an unknown length of time, the old man and the horse expressed their joy at being together again.

Then, with a cry of disappointment, the old man felt himself being drawn away from his horse and the beautiful meadow. When he opened his eyes, he discovered himself surrounded by doctors. He was in an operating theatre.

The old man struggled to speak in order to tell the doctors to let him go. He didn't want to be saved. All he wanted was to be returned to the meadow and his horse.

The next time the old man opened his eyes, he was in a hospital bed. He was informed by his doctor that he'd actually died for several minutes. The old man told the doctor of his experience. He said he'd never dreamed death could be so wonderful.

The doctor replied that many patients had related similar experiences.

When the old man returned home and told others of his experience, he said that his war-time and other experiences had robbed him of any belief in an afterlife. He'd firmly believed for most of his life that death simply meant blackness, nothingness. Since his near-death experience though, he had no fear of death and would welcome it when it came, because he looked forward to being with his horse again and knew now that it would be waiting for him.

This second story was contained in a book, but again, I can't remember which one, sorry.

It concerned a German married couple in middle age. They had a very comfortable home.

The German couple had two poodles and were unhappy with them, because they claimed the dogs were unruly and made a mess of their home. They said the dogs barked constantly and chased each other through the house, breaking or disturbing items, etc.

Finally, the couple instructed a vet to administer lethal injections to both dogs.

The dogs did not leave however and according to the couple, they continued to race through the house after death as they had before.

Photos accompanied the story and showed the couple's living room: sofas, drapes, coffee tables, easy chairs, etc. And there, superimposed on this normal scene, were the misty shapes of the dogs, in the process of happily leaping between the furniture.

The Germans were in despair, because they said the sound of the dogs' barking interrupted their sleep and their waking hours, just as it had when the dogs were alive. The couple said they didn't know what to do about the situation. They'd expected all their problems would be over once the dogs were gone. But now it was obvious the dogs weren't prepared to leave, even though they were physically dead.

The couple had taken the photos of the dogs' ghosts to prove to people that it was really happening. It's a long time since I read this story, but from memory, the couple took issue against the vet they'd paid to kill the dogs and the vet said he had no answer to their current situation -- he'd done as they asked and would not be held responsible for what happened afterwards.

Experts examined the photos of the ghost-dogs and pronounced them genuine and not double-exposures or fraudulent, etc. The negatives were identical to the photos.

There was no conclusion to the story in the book: the couple continued to see and hear the dogs and continued to complain ( I feel no sympathy at all for the married couple and hope the dogs are still running around happily together somewhere )

First let me say how sorry I am to hear of your loss. I have been there and I know.

Second, I do believe that animals have souls and can go to "heaven."

For all of us who are dog people, we know that it couldn't be called "Heaven" if our dogs weren't allowed in.

before i become an atheist i used to beleive that all creatures that have died in the universe all came to a universial utopian heaven from microbe to mammoth to martian to human i beleived that all creatures in the universe that were alive had some form of soul and even when a species evolved and changed its appearance souls would exist through all generations of life but these are my old beleifs now

Dock6!!
Man that was fantastic. I had an experience this morning and I have to shoot to a meeting but i will relay this shorlty - when i am done - but today.

Originally posted by wellwhatnow
First let me say how sorry I am to hear of your loss. I have been there and I know.

Second, I do believe that animals have souls and can go to "heaven."

For all of us who are dog people, we know that it couldn't be called "Heaven" if our dogs weren't allowed in.

I have to agree whole heartedly with you on this. I always felt that they HAD to go to heaven and have souls but you know, one always has reservations and i am just glad that we will see them again.

Originally posted by shearder
Dock6!!
Man that was fantastic. I had an experience this morning and I have to shoot to a meeting but i will relay this shortly - when i am done - but today.

Ok as promised:

You know, since we put her to sleep there have been small occurrences that kind of indicate that she is still around us and one of them happened this morning. We had a power failure due to a storm and they cut power to rectify a problem at one of the transformers. However, I had lit 2 candles in the bathroom and went back to the room. I had a feeling that she was in the room and I went back to the bathroom to take a shower. The candles were on opposite sides of the bath. Both danced in their own way – typical. Then I suddenly noticed that the flames moved in unison and then an odd thing happened – the flames both stopped moving and then died down as if almost ready to go out – they stayed like that for a few seconds and then rose up brighter than normal – stayed like that for a couple of seconds and then went back to normal. It was as if there was only one candle and there was a mirror beside it. That is how alike they burned. May be nothing but I don’t believe I have ever seen anything like that before. Candles never burn exactly the same – not that I am aware of. Air movement would be different for each and the way they were EXACTLY the same raises a brow!