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Faster than the speed of light?

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posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 08:59 PM
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Say you have a large motor in space, like your ceiling fan, with "fins" that project extremely far out away from the motor. There is a capsule with a seat in it close to the motor, that can run on a track from the motor out to the edge of the "fin." If this was long enough to accelerate you to the speed of light, (670,616,629.2 mph) would it be possible to fling you out faster than the speed of light?

Since sitting on the edge of this fin would exert you to some rediculous g-forces.

To my understanding, the Theory of Relativity states that it is close to impossible to achieve the thrust needed to propel you faster than the speed of light. What if the thrust was centrifugal force? I'm pretty sure that the speed at the tip of the "fin" would be some exponential from the speed of the rotor, but it could work, wouldn't it?

Gonna crunch some math...




posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 09:35 PM
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I have honestly never thought of that before, sounds like its theoretically sound, keep us posted with your data



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 09:36 PM
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No, you can't exceed the speed of light, no matter what, according to Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity. Lightspeed is the absolute speed limit.

Now think of this... You have 2 starships backed up tail-to-tail to each other, and they both jump to lightspeed at the same time, starting from the same point in space, streaking away in exact opposite directions. Both travelling at lightspeed.

So how fast are they departing from one another? Twice lightspeed?

Nope. Even though they are both going lightspeed in opposite directions, they are still only departing from one another at lightspeed.

Why? Because you can't exceed the speed of light, no matter what, according to Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity. Lightspeed is the absolute speed limit.

That's what I like about Einstein... No matter how convoluted the question, he keeps the answer short and sweet.


— Doc Velocity

[edit on 2/5/2007 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 09:51 PM
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you cant excede the speed of light, but you can go around it.



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 09:53 PM
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Speed is only relative to an observer. You're sitting in your chair now but travelling on the outside of the earth at 1,000 mph, for example.

Two ships leaving point A at 100 mph in opposite directions will be 200 miles apart after 1-hour. Relative to one another they are travelling away from each other at 200mph but only 100 mph from point A (the observer). These ships can't exceed 100mph relative to the source - but are exceeding it relative to each other.

Light shines from a star. In 1 year, light from the start has reached 1 light year away in all directions. So, relative to the star, light is leaving at light speed. Light travelled at light speed in all directions but didn't exceed the speed of light. Light is "observable" from two points located 2 light years away from each other at the same "time" one year after it left the star. Relative to each other, light going in one direction and light going in the other end up getting the effects of "relativistic Doppler effect".

en.wikipedia.org...

I think the only way for something to travel faster than light (relative to its source) is through something called quantum entanglement which we really can't control.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 09:55 PM
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but doc...

theres a reason this is a reason its a theory and not a law.



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 10:01 PM
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I imagine if you had a fan of infinitely strong material, it'd be impossible to get it going fast enough such that the tips met or exceeded the speed of light, as it would continue to take more and more energy. The relativistic properties of a fan nearing that speed would be pretty interesting to see though, to say the least.

Interesting post.



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 10:06 PM
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Well, perhaps in Quantum physics, or String Theory, you can theoretically cross from Point A to Point B without traversing space and time — Just suddenly BECOME the destination through simultaneous transposition of locations.

But not by Einstein's theory.

I know, somebody will say Well, what about E=mc2, isn't that the speed of light squared?? Well, it's certainly a number, but it's not a velocity. Using c2, Einstein wasn't describing an attainable speed, but rather the transformation of matter to energy.

If c2 was a velocity, it's not a velocity that you want to reach. Ask anybody at Hiroshima and Nagasaki.


— Doc Velocity

[edit on 2/5/2007 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 10:07 PM
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But what is the relative point? Light travels away from its source at the speed of light, no matter what its speed is. I can't find the quote from Einstein, but he wondered what would happen if he was to travel at the same speed a photon travelled. If you were travelling at the speed of light, and flashed a strobe, the light would travel ahead of you at the speed of light plus the speed at which you were travelling.



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 10:10 PM
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Yes that is correct, light always travels at the speed of light (in a vacuum) no matter what the observer's speed is.



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by Quasar
I can't find the quote from Einstein, but he wondered what would happen if he was to travel at the same speed a photon travelled. If you were travelling at the speed of light, and flashed a strobe, the light would travel ahead of you at the speed of light plus the speed at which you were travelling.


He wondered what would happen, but he ultimately concluded that you can't use lightspeed as a "platform" for launching something faster than light.

Why? Let's all say it together...
Because you can't exceed the speed of light, no matter what, according to Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity. Lightspeed is the absolute speed limit.

Gotta love Einstein.


— Doc Velocity



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 10:20 PM
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maybe he is wrong.
He wouldnt be the first human to make a mistake.



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 10:21 PM
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According to scientists the only way to travel faster is to cheat.
That is why gravity drive is being looked at so hard.
If you could create a gravity bubble around your ship, and that bubble was capable of creating a variable gravity feild that starts strong in the front then moves to the rear then restarts, you would in effect pull a tiny bit of space past you.
If you could do that and at the same time create a small amount of thrust that pushes your ship from the back of the bubble towards the front, then a exponetial speed build up would occur to an outside observer. You and your ship would always be going the same speed, lets say 55 mph. It is your gravity bubble that is pulling space from in front of you to behind you. Eventually you could travel light years while only expending a small amount of fuel or energy.

This allows you to over come the time warp problem of ageing 1 year for every few hubdred people on earth would age, and it over comes the build up of mass a object would have as it approaches the speed of light.

This is the basis of the star trek warp drive. Which is comonly agreed by science to be plausible science fiction.



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 10:27 PM
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I understood that Einstein left a "loop hole" in his theory & that is where worm holes come in. I heard some Harvard scientist say that on a documentary.



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 10:27 PM
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I think the key to remember here is that objects with a measurable mass are limited to the speed of light as a limit, things that aren't really a part of the physical world or in this dimension aren't held to those rules.

But this explains our basic problem with propelling a huge vehicle with a large amount of mass to any speed that could even be considerable for travel to another planet easily, let alone out of our solar system.

Thought this was a cool read:
www.indiadaily.com...

[edit]

BTW, is this a theory for propelling a UFO to great speeds? Just wondering how this ties into the forum heading..


[edit on 5-2-2007 by HaTaX]



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity
No, you can't exceed the speed of light, no matter what, according to Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity. Lightspeed is the absolute speed limit.

Now think of this... You have 2 starships backed up tail-to-tail to each other, and they both jump to lightspeed at the same time, starting from the same point in space, streaking away in exact opposite directions. Both travelling at lightspeed.

So how fast are they departing from one another? Twice lightspeed?

Nope. Even though they are both going lightspeed in opposite directions, they are still only departing from one another at lightspeed.

Why? Because you can't exceed the speed of light, no matter what, according to Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity. Lightspeed is the absolute speed limit.

That's what I like about Einstein... No matter how convoluted the question, he keeps the answer short and sweet.


— Doc Velocity

[edit on 2/5/2007 by Doc Velocity]


Riddle me this:
okay so lets say i got a ship that can go at the speed of light, now lets say i blow it up while at that speed since i'm allready going as fast as possible then i blow it up now wouldnt there be particles that would be accelerated past the speed of light by the explosion.
my theroy is this in simpler terms
ok i'm in a car and i got a paintball gun i'm going 30 mph and the gun fires at lets say 10 mph so what is the speed of the paint ball i'm no math wizzard but i'd say 40 mph since its allready traveling at 30 and getting that 10mph boost.
what everyone compares light speed to so far is like jumping off a falling elevator at the last moment



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 10:31 PM
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if the tips of this fan hit light speed, wouldnt the entire machine need to be at light speed too?



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by acmeartifacts
If you could create a gravity bubble around your ship, and that bubble was capable of creating a variable gravity feild that starts strong in the front then moves to the rear then restarts, you would in effect pull a tiny bit of space past you.


But now you're outside of Einsteinian Physics. This is what I spoke of earlier, a scenario from Quantum Physics — simultaneous transposition of locations. Using this theory at its extreme, supposedly, you could select a destination anywhere, anywhere in the universe, and translocate to that destination instantaneously. Called it the fictional "wormhole" or whatever. Point A to Point B without really traversing space at all. Like a cosmic castle move, to borrow a term from a game I used to play.

Problem is, this transposition, this folding of space, requires the energy equivalent of a million solar/years output, or something equally mind-boggling. And when you get to your destination, wouldn't you know it, no gas stations.

— Doc Velocity



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 10:33 PM
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670,616,629.2 / 3.14159265 = 213,463,903.158 = Diameter in miles of proposed fan to revolve in one hour to be travelling at the speed of light.

106,731,951.579 = Radius of fan.

Earth = 91,402,725 miles from the sun
Mars = 128,402,967 miles from the sun

Damn, thats a big fan...



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity
No, you can't exceed the speed of light, no matter what, according to Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity. Lightspeed is the absolute speed limit.

Now think of this... You have 2 starships backed up tail-to-tail to each other, and they both jump to lightspeed at the same time, starting from the same point in space, streaking away in exact opposite directions. Both travelling at lightspeed.

So how fast are they departing from one another? Twice lightspeed?

Nope. Even though they are both going lightspeed in opposite directions, they are still only departing from one another at lightspeed.

Why? Because you can't exceed the speed of light, no matter what, according to Einstein's Theory of Special Relativity. Lightspeed is the absolute speed limit.

That's what I like about Einstein... No matter how convoluted the question, he keeps the answer short and sweet.


— Doc Velocity

[edit on 2/5/2007 by Doc Velocity]

The really wacky part is that if two ships move away each at nearly c, then in a Newtonian model one ship would perceive the other ship as moving away at 2c. The really wacky and strangely elegant part is that if one of the ships were to send a photon to the other ship, the other ship would calculate it as traveling at c! Why do they get that measurement? It's because time actually starts to change. Basically, the universe says "Well, it needs to be observed as going at at c, because that's the law, but since distance and velocity are both fixed, and velocity x time = distance, then the only thing left to do is change time!"

Blows my mind. Still does, years after learning that for the first time.



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