local teenage prodigy taken to Area 51

FWIW, i heard this guy on C2C some months ago, and i have to say...he sounded pretty genuine. i know, that doesn't mean much in the way of verifiable evidence...but when i heard the interview, i was DYING to find out who he was so i could research it on the net later.

Adair has a well documented history so I don't know what you're implying seifera003.

On Edit: I have e-mailed Mr. Adair with this thread link.

[edit on 5-2-2007 by jbondo]

[edit on 5-2-2007 by jbondo]

While you're talking to Mr Adair, ask what the name of that USAF award was..usually there's a more specific name than this since the Air Force doesn't seem to list such a thing by that exact description. There are awards like the von Karman or Schilling which are for contributions to aerospace engineering.

There's a more general "Air Force Science and Engineering Award" which can be awarded to either a USAF service member or to civilians that are employed by USAF but not to a civilian-at-large.

I've asked the AF Historical division for a listing. Maybe they can scratch one up for me.

Oh, yeah, about that NSF grant, I take it he wasn't the principal awardee somehow? Because NSF has a really thorough catalog and no David Adair was ever awarded any grants whatsoever that I can find. Maybe he has a grant number he could share.

But it is hard to trust with their campaign of working in their own frauds so they can disprove them and look good.

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
While you're talking to Mr Adair, ask what the name of that USAF award was..usually there's a more specific name than this since the Air Force doesn't seem to list such a thing by that exact description. There are awards like the von Karman or Schilling which are for contributions to aerospace engineering.

Thanks Tom, your help is greatly appreciated here in sorting this story out.

Heck, John, he could be legitimate, in which case I should be able to find this sort of thing to confirm it.

I have access to pretty much any refereed journal. If he's published, it should be there. If he got awards from USAF, they tend to remember it. NSF has records back to the 70's in a searchable database now. A few minutes here and there and I ought to be able to come up with it.

And while von Braun's past the asking, I have Mr Armstrong's home phone number, unless he changed it in the last year. I'd hate to pester him with something this trivial though. I might write him a snail mail letter.

AF Historical Records didn't have a listing for such an award but sent me to another guy, the AF's chief scientist, whom they didn't name, oddly enough. But I have a phone number.

These things are like scavenger hunts. Only you get to meet new people.

Tom,

If you think it wouldn't be that much of a problem I would certainly be interested in what Mr. Armstrong has to say.

The funding came via Congressman John Ashbrook thru the department of education.

Regarding the e-mail address, unfortunately it is no longer active. Most likely shut down due to inquiries like this.

I definitely would like to get as much of this resolved as possible as I'd hate to think Mr. Adair is not the person I thought him to be. I think with all of us on the case we should be able to solve at least some of this mystery.

this is incredible, great work so far guys, ATS would be a first to possibly prove or disprove this incredible story. I would think if his credentials line up, then this fantastic tale might add some credence to notion that alien technolgy is being housed at area 51 theory...

Well, I had a big reply written out but ATS ate it. I got some error saying that post.php didn't exist.

Anyway, I guess I'll have to copy the post to the clipboard before I hit "post reply" from now on.

I have looked NSF over. No record. You can have at it yourself here: www.nsf.gov...

I don't think that NSF does these fourth hand grants from NSF to Dept of Ed to a Congressman to you. SBIRs and STTRs don't, for damn sure. I will look at that, but I'm not sure why a Congresscritter would have the authority to hand out Dept of Ed funding. Or why NSF would fund Dept of Ed, you see what I mean? Maybe they do, but it sounds bogus. However, it gives me another name, and I don't mind harassing Mr Congresscritter at all. That's a snail mail in the making right there.

Jbondo, do you know the year? I will bet that Dept of Ed doesn't list any such award, nor will NSF show funding Dept of Ed to fund a Congressman to fund a kid. But a year would help track such a thing.

Like I said, I got the phone number of the guy that AFHSO Research sent me. I am going to see if I can get a name to go with it before I call. I don't suspect someone with the title "Chief Scientist of the Air Force" is an NCO. I don't mind so much harassing General's secretaries, they're usually a lot of fun to talk to, but I hate not knowing WHO I'm calling because it makes me look stupid and it's not proper procedure, either.

On the Armstrong issue, I thought it over and suspect getting a call on his cell or unlisted number by someone he doesn't know would probably not set the stage for a productive phone call, and would most likely degenerate into "How the ---- did you get this number", so I'm going to snail mail that one. Not to mention having one of my childhood heroes cuss me out wouldn't do my ego any good.

The good thing is, word has it that he really gets po'd when someone uses his name to sell their bogus stories, so if Adair is full of it, we will most likely just sit back and make popcorn while we watch the fur fly courtesy of Mr Armstrong's legal team.

As a side note, I did find that there is a junior high/high school science fair award that the local USAF recruiting office hands out that has a similar name. Do you think that's what he's talking about? Some science fair attaboy?

Jbondo, you seem to be the expert on this guy, does he ever state a residence or birth year? If I knew one place he has ever lived, a birth date, service number, ssn, something, I could 'look him up', the name might be unique enough but probably not. I don't know what age he would be now, that might work if the name is fairly uncommon. If he is really designing flying saucer powerplants for the gubmint he should have some big tracks in the system that will show up, unless he's too highly placed for low level riff-raff like me to query.

according to press releases the USAF cheif scientist is :

Dr. Mark J. Lewis

source

Got it. Dr. Mark Lewis at AFOSR. Unfortunately our paths have never crossed, which isn't all that surprising since I am pond scum.

If AFOSR is the administrator of the Air Force Science and Engineering Award (the only thing I could think of that sounds like what Adair is claiming he won), then my initial POC is probably the public affairs officer, and that is where I shall commence.

Updates as I get them.

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
I have looked NSF over. No record. You can have at it yourself here: www.nsf.gov...

I don't think that NSF does these fourth hand grants from NSF to Dept of If he is really designing flying saucer powerplants for the gubmint he should have some big tracks in the system that will show up, unless he's too highly placed for low level riff-raff like me to query.

Thanks Tom for help in researching Adair. I think we can get to the bottom of his story eventually. I certainly would like to know if his story is true. I may not have the correct number but I believe he said he flew up to Groom in 1971 and he was 19 years old at the time, so he would have been born in 1952. I will check with the friend I told you about and see if he can get a telephone number or email for Adair. Thanks again.

Inquiry is in to the public affairs office at AFOSR. They are checking on it. I asked for the award administrator's contact info and a listing of all awards ever presented by year, awardee and category.

I'm sort of tied up this week but should come free mid-afternoon Friday, at which time it will be snail mail for all, and I'll use the 'anal probe' to see if I can find anything interesting. Of course, if he's for real, I'll probably be in trouble.

Stay tuned.

Tom,

I am by no means an expert on Adair, just trying to sort this out like you.

I know he lived in Mount Vernon, OH during this time and claims he was on the cover of the Mount Vernon news when he built his first fusion rockets.

As for the initial funding, I don't believe the Military was involved. It was specifically thru Ashbrook via the DOE. The funding then allegedly switched when the Air Force took over and it was done thru the National Science Foundation. He claims there is record of his funding via Ashbrooks record in the Library of Congress.

Regarding the award, I believe you are right about it being given thru a science fair.

As for Armstrong, he claims that he spent more time with Viola (Armstrong’s mother) at their home in Wapakenneta. He claims he met Von Braun at a party there.

He claims his trip to Groom Lake to be on June 20, 1971 at the age of 17.

I am currently tracking down some leads and will post what I find.

On Edit: I got a phone number that may be a direct contact to Adair. Unfortunately I am not in a place where I can call right now. If anyone else would like to check it out, here is the number: 310-669-4806


[edit on 7-2-2007 by jbondo]

anyone call the number yet?

Originally posted by jbondo
Tom,

I am by no means an expert on Adair, just trying to sort this out like you.

I know he lived in Mount Vernon, OH during this time and claims he was on the cover of the Mount Vernon news when he built his first fusion rockets.

As for the initial funding, I don't believe the Military was involved. It was specifically thru Ashbrook via the DOE. The funding then allegedly switched when the Air Force took over and it was done thru the National Science Foundation. He claims there is record of his funding via Ashbrooks record in the Library of Congress.

Regarding the award, I believe you are right about it being given thru a science fair.

As for Armstrong, he claims that he spent more time with Viola (Armstrong’s mother) at their home in Wapakenneta. He claims he met Von Braun at a party there.

He claims his trip to Groom Lake to be on June 20, 1971 at the age of 17.

I am currently tracking down some leads and will post what I find.

On Edit: I got a phone number that may be a direct contact to Adair. Unfortunately I am not in a place where I can call right now. If anyone else would like to check it out, here is the number: 310-669-4806


[edit on 7-2-2007 by jbondo]

Will be interesting tracking it down. If I weren't tied up erratically at 'customer sites' over the next few days I'd have more time to spend dinking with it.

Things change over time, when he was 17 the funding may have been done differently than it is now. Now, the USAF would do like they do us, either you bid on an SBIR or STTR, or it's under the table and you either get what they call an 'unsolicited SBIR' or 'other funding' grant. A full bird can stroke you a small to medium sized one at discretion (or LTC if it's Marines).

Some types of funding are shadier but it generally takes an intercessory agency for one of those, for example, they *cofflaundercoff* the money through someone like SAIC, or if it's really weird funding you get it through a 'foundation' that has no logical bearing on what you're doing, like (making up nonsense example) "The Foundation for Cetacean Communication Research". and you're getting $600 hammer money. None of that involves a party like NSF though, although it may have done back then.

The science fair thing is sort of what I thought that award might have been. Those are pretty much meaningless and are given out below the state level. That he's claiming such a thing is a bad sign. Hell, I have a lot of weird awards I used to get for attaboys that I tossed in the scrap book bin and have never looked at again. I'd feel sort of creepy trying to chat up my record by listing Army Achievement Awards and stuff. "Managed to tie shoelaces with valor nearly 10 times in a row, with total disregard for personal safety" Seriously, some of that stuff is nearly mental. I personally would be ashamed listing a junior high science fair award as an example of my scholastic prowess.

The other claims are pretty tough to stomach too, like the "fusion rocket". How many working fusion rockets have you seen? The smartest plasma guy I've ever seen is totally bugs--t about that topic and HE hasn't managed to demonstrate one. Had he claimed a fission engine design like a Nerva it might have been more believable. Also going to Nellis...any time someone brings claims of going to, working on or seeing something at 'Area 51' I immediately discount it. I've never been there. I don't suspect I ever will go, because I don't need to be on a flight test secure area. I have worked on stuff at the aerospace companies' plants that I think ended UP going there but I'm not flightline personnel. If you aren't you probably aren't there. I seriously suspect that 'Area 51 duty' is the AF equivalent of being a PX Ranger.

Personally, IMO you guys are missing a big bet not focusing your attention on some other bases in that general area of the US where some really impressive stuff DOES happen. I think the Nellis mystique is maybe a distraction, and I'm sure they encourage it.

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
Personally, IMO you guys are missing a big bet not focusing your attention on some other bases in that general area of the US where some really impressive stuff DOES happen. I think the Nellis mystique is maybe a distraction, and I'm sure they encourage it.

Personally, Area 51 is something I have always put at the outer edge of my radar.

As for the award, he did say that it was given to him by the Air Force. I really have no idea if there were junior achievement awards given by a military branch back then. Probably not, but his talk of science fairs and then that award prompted me to link it all together. I was 9 in 1971 so I can't remember anything other than Vietnam and hiding from nuclear attacks under my desk drills.

At this point I am more interested in proving or disproving Adair's claims outside of Area 51. If anyone is going to get to the heart of this I would say you are on track Tom.

I'll keep looking....

One last thing before I have to skip off back to work. Have you noticed how untraceable all his bonafides are? Dead people, records only in LOC, bases where you can't get any info, awards that aren't on the books?

I'm not saying it's not possible but how many people will actually get Armstrong's home mailing address and fire off a letter? I think that's the weakness here, citing still living people as bonafides. Anyway, I'll try to get a bunch of letters off this weekend. Still no input as to the other award listing from AFRL.

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
I have looked NSF over. No record. You can have at it yourself here: www.nsf.gov...

I don't think that NSF does these fourth hand grants from NSF to Dept of If he is really designing flying saucer powerplants for the gubmint he should have some big tracks in the system that will show up, unless he's too highly placed for low level riff-raff like me to query.

Thanks Tom for help in researching Adair. I think we can get to the bottom of his story eventually. I certainly would like to know if his story is true. I may not have the correct number but I believe he said he flew up to Groom in 1971 and he was 19 years old at the time, so he would have been born in 1952. I will check with the friend I told you about and see if he can get a telephone number or email for Adair. Thanks again.

john didn't adair say he was living in the caribean on c2c last time i heard.