Teenager Charged with Child Abuse/Child Porn, for Photographing SELF!

Originally posted by IeatALIENS
I'm sorry man, but if you or somebody you loved, became one of those "Eggs", if you were the one innocent person, you would suddenly sing a different tune.

And, there is a lot of evidence that has started to pour in, showing that, for all the horror and stress these laws have caused, they have improved nothing. Just more misery.

I can only hope that if that situation were to arise that I would be strong enough to remain true to my convictions. I know that if my daughter were ever hurt by one of these scumbags there would be no punishment harsh enough, no matter what the outcome I would feel that these laws are too soft. I have that same passion for all children.

I just don't believe that there is this down pour of evidence showing that these laws do more harm than good. If you've got some links - post 'em. I'll read. But that story from our other thread doesn't even come close to counting.

Mr No One

The laws do work. They do help.

What are you basing that assumption on?

From everything I've read, the problem just keeps getting worse, even as we adopt more draconian tactics and penalties.

The problem is a serious one, and that's precisely why we shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking we're making progress if we really aren't. It's better to admit that we're up against a wall here, and look at new ways of solving the problem.

Here's a novel idea, why not abolish the D.E.A. and spend their budget investigating and prosecuting crimes that actually have a discernible victim.

[edit on 5-2-2007 by WyrdeOne]

Call me a pornographer, during my youth at around 16-17 I had this thing for streaking man.

Would take fotos to commemorate it.

Never knew I could go to jail for that lawl.



luckily I can streak and foto myself without fear of the law now WOOO SCORE ONE FOR ME!

ps: That is totally bunk to charge her man, damn down right fascist if you ask me!

So I guess they're going after nudism colonies next?

[edit on 5-2-2007 by Lysergic]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Here's a novel idea, why not abolish the D.E.A. and spend their budget investigating and prosecuting crimes that actually have a discernible victim.

[edit on 5-2-2007 by WyrdeOne]

And that is something we both clearly agree on.

What she did was pretty wrong though tbh. Those photos are still going to end up on some pedophiles computer. If you want to stamp out pedophilia you have to cancel out all instances of it, starting with the source!

So are you saying it's ok for her to take dodgy pictures of herself and post them on the internet, but it's not ok for people to look at them? THAT's ludicrous, make your minds up whether dodgy photos should be allowed or not. Then whoever's guilty should be punished! (ok maybe a little less harshly because she's a minor) but still, letting her get away with it just means there's a loophole where pedophilia is allowed!

Originally posted by malganis
What she did was pretty wrong though tbh. Those photos are still going to end up on some pedophiles computer. If you want to stamp out pedophilia you have to cancel out all instances of it, starting with the source!
(edit by the digirati)


simple solution, Ban children from the internet, restrict them to internet2.0 ( or ban them completly, think of all the other problems this resolves, Crime, Pollution, global warming Etc....)
Points to Ponder
1. Perversion is in the eye of the beholder
2. children learn about sex
3 Non tech groups on this planet DO go nude ( africa, south america, australia)
4. the "Mrs Grundy" effect ( Re: Robert Heinlein)
Folks keep this story in mind when you get a murder charge for wearing a condom or taking birth control pills

I think the charges are justified. I think some of you need to rethink your views on this. If I, being a 41 year old male, had taken these pictures of her, there would be people calling for me to get life in prison, but because she took them herself you have no problem with it. Think about it this way. If she sent the pictures to you, you would be guilty of a crime and face punishment. I know of a couple who recorded themselves having sex. They were both 17 at the time and later married. Last year they took their computer in for repair and the tech said that he found the video file while testing the system and turned them into the Police. Both were charged, both found guilty and both were fined. I don't know the specifics of the charges as they might pertain to Megan's Law, but I do know this happened.

The point is that she distributed the pics to other under age people. Once she did that the pictures become pornography. Therefore it then turns into distribution and possession.

She is guilty of what she is being charged with although I can't see this ruining the rest of her life as some have said. I'm sure that the legalities can be worked out to where she can be adjudicated.

Originally posted by malganis
What she did was pretty wrong though tbh. Those photos are still going to end up on some pedophiles computer. If you want to stamp out pedophilia you have to cancel out all instances of it, starting with the source!

So are you saying it's ok for her to take dodgy pictures of herself and post them on the internet, but it's not ok for people to look at them? THAT's ludicrous, make your minds up whether dodgy photos should be allowed or not. Then whoever's guilty should be punished! (ok maybe a little less harshly because she's a minor) but still, letting her get away with it just means there's a loophole where pedophilia is allowed!

Personally, although wrong, and potentially adding to the amount of kiddie porn out there, I just have a problem with the "Funnel" effect of these laws.

This girl is NOT in the same category as the laws will indicate. Just creating some laws, making the punishments unbelievably horrendous, and shoving a wide spectrum of criminals into the same funnel is wrong, lazy, ignorant and cruel.

These laws were originally passed to go after Child Molesters and Rapists. Period.

I can send you an email, from an anonymous address and IP. Have a child porn attachment in that email. turn around, and call the cops on you, anonymously, and even if you don't know it is there. Even if you haven't checked your email yet. If it is on your computer, you will spend the next year trying to get people to believe you, possibly the next year in jail, and the next ten years on the Megan's Law list.

Believe it.

The job of the police and the prosecutor, and the courts, is not to help you get out of trouble, and defend yourself.

Their job is to win. To defeat you. To prove that you had a hand in receiving that picture.

And you, and whatever amount of money you have in your bank account, is all that stands in their way.

The cop working overtime to find the REAL criminal, because he has a "gut feeling" that the guy they arrested, is innocent, is only on tv and in the movies.

It does NOT happen that way.

And, I really don't appreciate the insinuation that my statements are untrue or unfounded. Hell, people. The frigging case histories are available right online in a lot of cases.

There should be separate laws for the:

1. Girl that took pics of herself.
2. Guy that somehow had 2 kiddie porn pics in a block of porn he downloaded somewhere.
3. The couple whose kid catches them fooling around.
4. The guy that send naked baby pictures to photomat.
5. The kid arrested for having sex with his girlfriend that is 2 years younger than he is.
6. The person that gets arrested for aiding in the abuse of a minor, because his brother or son has sex with a minor in his house without him knowing.
7. The dude that has a trojan on his pc, and gets his hard drive used to store kiddie porn for a dealer.
8. The kid that shows his dirty pictures to his underage friends.

The list goes on and on. These are real occurrences. It is showing me something that some people are just denying, and arguing, instead of looking into it themselves.

That's how these laws got this way in the first place.

Hey. Whatever. Another couple years, and EVERYBODY will have a loved one on the list, or they will be on it themselves. It will be like DUI's and Drug Charges. Then, people will actually care less about the list, and whose on it.

THEN, you will see kids getting abused. After we are all jaded again.

Ever hear of the "Boy who cried Wolf"?

You know what the worst part is about this whole thing, in my mind?

The fact that politically-connected sickos and most of the really wealthy perverts never get nailed, the bass-ackwards application of the law only ever seems to hamstring poor, innocent people.

The whole justice system is ruined when money becomes a factor in determining innocence.

And I'm all for locking up or killing the guilty, but the double standard is amazing. It's easy as pie for an innocent youth or poor person to get railroaded by the system, but while that's going on, there are people who are clearly guilty that get off without so much as a slap on the wrist, thanks to their connections.

Case in point: www.abovetopsecret.com...

So this fifteen year old girl is a bigger threat to the community than that asshole?

Pfft...

She's just an easier target to appease the bloodlust of the voting public. It's too hard to go after the real sickos, you know, the ones who control this country.

What about this sick bastard?


House Chairman of the Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children - and he EXPLOITED CHILDREN! What's he up to? He's running around out there, totally free, hasn't been charged with anything despite his admissions and the evidence that's been circulating for months now.

And it's not like he's the only one...

:shk:

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
You know what the worst part is about this whole thing, in my mind?

The fact that politically-connected sickos and most of the really wealthy perverts never get nailed, the bass-ackwards application of the law only ever seems to hamstring poor, innocent people.

The whole justice system is ruined when money becomes a factor in determining innocence.

And I'm all for locking up or killing the guilty, but the double standard is amazing. It's easy as pie for an innocent youth or poor person to get railroaded by the system, but while that's going on, there are people who are clearly guilty that get off without so much as a slap on the wrist, thanks to their connections.

Case in point: www.abovetopsecret.com...

So this fifteen year old girl is a bigger threat to the community than that asshole?

Pfft...

She's just an easier target to appease the bloodlust of the voting public. It's too hard to go after the real sickos, you know, the ones who control this country.

What about this sick bastard?

House Chairman of the Caucus on Missing and Exploited Children - and he EXPLOITED CHILDREN! What's he up to? He's running around out there, totally free, hasn't been charged with anything despite his admissions and the evidence that's been circulating for months now.

And it's not like he's the only one...

:shk:

Exactly!
I personally know of a wealthy guy that got away with having sex with a very young girl, AND taking pictures of it. They found the pics, and there were tons of witnesses. He ruined the girl in court, and he got off.

At the same time, I know of another guy that caught with a work computer that had 3 kiddie porn pics on it, and no evidence that it was his instead of any other users. He could not afford a defense, took a deal, and is screwed for life.

I am amazed. Not one person has asked "Why on earth would she take these types of photos of herself and then send them to people she doesn't know on the internet?" Is this not a terrible indication of how low the morals of the youth are? Why would a 15 year old girl even THINK about taking this type of photo of herself? I can understand taking "pretty pictures" of yourself (maybe with make up on and dressed for a night out on the town) to send to your online buddies but this is ridiculous. The girl needs help (although I believe that its really too late to undo the damage) and her parents should be shot. What kind of parent has a child who has so little self-esteem and even less moral grounding? Are there any other children in the household and, if so, what is being done about them? Has this girl maybe been abused at some stage for her to be so sexually aware? Or has she just been watching too much MTV? (MTV as far as I'm concerned is just soft porn disguised as music videos.) Our children are being made aware of their sexuality at a much too early age and the parents are doing absolutely nothing about it.

Well said LovingSoul!

You have voted LovingSoul for the Way Above Top Secret award.

The BLATANT FACT is that this law will probably be rewritten in a couple years becaue of this ... and we will just get leniant on our Kids ... and they will start taking advantage of these situations ... And see it as a Cry for help for their generation .. But that will be somewhere way down deep suppressed by all these other fears that this certain child will have hidden along with scars from family that he/she has been given ... I am betting personally it will be a she ... But anyways ... Look at the School schootings ... and such .. at first it was ... just harrasment at school .. Maybe some teasing by these kids ... Nowadays it has turned into full pledged MURDER ... and We were letting are kids go to Juvenile hall ... Only showing them .. if you are goign to kill someone do it before you become of age to take responsibility for it ... That should not be the message that we send out to our kids .. Although sadly it was the message that we sent out to them .. When all of this first started ....

Originally posted by madhatter
I'd agree that sending out the pics of herself like that is not the smartest thing to do.
I can't see how she's abused anyone especially when they're pics of herself and if she's put on the sexual offenders list? That is just ludicrous!

very well said !! ...
kids are far too aware, far too early nowadays.

snoopyuk

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
But the charges brought against her are very, very serious. I don't see how criminalizing her is going to help her.

Criminalizing her actions may not help her, but it will help America.

Good post WO, but of course America must remain a bastion of prudery, else how would the population respond so neatly and sharply to terror alerts and other marching orders? We cannot be thinking about budding young girls and certainly not their self-photographed private parts. America will die if we do.

Don't you see that this young girl, like all sexy young things, is a TEMPTRESS! I say we deal with her like we've always dealt with temptresses. Burn her as a witch for arousing the satanic lusts of the townsmen! Young girls are ALWAYS guilty of this (which is why millions were burned in the last hundreds of years).

Seriously tho', I was raised in a religion which hides child molestors and which sees kids as being a root cause of temptation, even before it sees them as human. If one can grasp the spirit here, then they will not be surprised by treating childhood sexual development as cirminal, because that's the road we are on. It's not insanity tho', it's designed.

It is essential that we remain a nation of prudes. To do otherwise would be to spit the bridle out of our mouth. collectively. This girl must be made an example of. Give her a job at Hooters since she's 18 by now.


[edit on 6-2-2007 by smallpeeps]

As long as our culture subscribes to the flawed notion that teenagers are "children", this kind of thing is inevitable. Postpubescents aren't children anymore, they have the same sexual and emotional drives adults do, if not moreso. But our culture and laws continue to embrace the fiction that puberty somehow doesn't happen until 18...

I used to be webmaster for a very popular webcam site.
We used to have to shut down accounts daily because teenagers (both male and female) were showing sexual stuff on their webcams. These weren't "victims" of some kind of sexual exploitation, simply horny teens looking for a sexual outlet.

And yes, as child pornography laws are currently written, any pornography that involves under 18's is considered kiddie porn and sexual abuse, regardless of whether or not the kids themselves are creating it.

Unless this society does a lot of growing up with regards to it's attitudes towards human sexuality, this kind of thing is going to keep happening. Teenagers have the same sexual drives adults do - they're NOT "children" anymore. The average age at which an American loses their virginity (defined as "going all the way" IE intercourse) is about 14.5. Teen pregnancy is extremely common.

Unless we face the uncomfortable facts, these things are going to keep coming up, because our culture and our laws are based on lies. Not lies someone else is telling us, but lies we tell ourselves.


[edit on 2/6/07 by xmotex]

smallpeeps
Yeah man, we gotta keep all these teen terrorists in line. :shk:

It's horrendous, isn't it, how willing people are to sacrifice the lives of other peoples' kids.

lovingsoul

I am amazed. Not one person has asked "Why on earth would she take these types of photos of herself and then send them to people she doesn't know on the internet?"

Maybe the reason nobody said that is because it didn't happen? Where are you getting the information that she sent pictures to random strangers? From what I've read, it appears she sent the photos to people she knew online.

Is this not a terrible indication of how low the morals of the youth are?

Low morals aren't what I would call a good reason to ruin a life. In my experience, the consequences of immorality are their own punishment.

Why would a 15 year old girl even THINK about taking this type of photo of herself?

It's really not that unusual - the only reason this made the news is because this individual is being persecuted for her behavior. It's hardly the crime to end all crimes...

The girl needs help (although I believe that its really too late to undo the damage) and her parents should be shot. What kind of parent has a child who has so little self-esteem and even less moral grounding?

I hope you're just caught up in the throes of hyperbole, and don't mean that.

Are there any other children in the household and, if so, what is being done about them? Has this girl maybe been abused at some stage for her to be so sexually aware?

You don't know many 15 year olds, do you?

It doesn't take abuse to awaken sexual urges in teenagers.

Or has she just been watching too much MTV? (MTV as far as I'm concerned is just soft porn disguised as music videos.) Our children are being made aware of their sexuality at a much too early age and the parents are doing absolutely nothing about it.

On the one hand, I agree with you - it's a disturbing trend. Once, in Chicago, driving down Randolph (I think?) past a group of middle schoolers going one way, and a handful of prostitutes going the other way, and I was hard-pressed to tell the difference based on their dress and mannerisms. :shk:

But on the other hand, for thousands of years girls were married at her age. So, it's not like it's a new development. If anything, we're just revisiting old territory.

I think it's pretty naieve to think of teenagers as sexless angels - that couldn't be farther from the truth.

That's not to say we should allow them to run amok, but at least we should avoid self-delusion.

One thing that does really bother me is that parents allow their children so much unsupervised time on the internet.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
smallpeeps
Yeah man, we gotta keep all these teen terrorists in line. :shk:

It's horrendous, isn't it, how willing people are to sacrifice the lives of other peoples' kids.

lovingsoul

I am amazed. Not one person has asked "Why on earth would she take these types of photos of herself and then send them to people she doesn't know on the internet?"

Maybe the reason nobody said that is because it didn't happen? Where are you getting the information that she sent pictures to random strangers? From what I've read, it appears she sent the photos to people she knew online.

Is this not a terrible indication of how low the morals of the youth are?

Low morals aren't what I would call a good reason to ruin a life. In my experience, the consequences of immorality are their own punishment.

Why would a 15 year old girl even THINK about taking this type of photo of herself?

It's really not that unusual - the only reason this made the news is because this individual is being persecuted for her behavior. It's hardly the crime to end all crimes...

The girl needs help (although I believe that its really too late to undo the damage) and her parents should be shot. What kind of parent has a child who has so little self-esteem and even less moral grounding?

I hope you're just caught up in the throes of hyperbole, and don't mean that.

Are there any other children in the household and, if so, what is being done about them? Has this girl maybe been abused at some stage for her to be so sexually aware?

You don't know many 15 year olds, do you?

It doesn't take abuse to awaken sexual urges in teenagers.

Or has she just been watching too much MTV? (MTV as far as I'm concerned is just soft porn disguised as music videos.) Our children are being made aware of their sexuality at a much too early age and the parents are doing absolutely nothing about it.

On the one hand, I agree with you - it's a disturbing trend. Once, in Chicago, driving down Randolph (I think?) past a group of middle schoolers going one way, and a handful of prostitutes going the other way, and I was hard-pressed to tell the difference based on their dress and mannerisms. :shk:

But on the other hand, for thousands of years girls were married at her age. So, it's not like it's a new development. If anything, we're just revisiting old territory.

I think it's pretty naieve to think of teenagers as sexless angels - that couldn't be farther from the truth.

That's not to say we should allow them to run amok, but at least we should avoid self-delusion.

One thing that does really bother me is that parents allow their children so much unsupervised time on the internet.

The answer, for now, is truly simple.
The laws should be doing NOTHING but addressing the presence of "PREDATORS"! That's all.
That is what we were told they would do. That is all they should do. But, as with so much in our society, we were duped into believing something to be for a "Good Cause", when it's true intent was always something worse.

We don't give the addict the same sentence as the Drug Lord.

This is the same situation.

There are those that are drawn into, and negatively effected by Child Pornography, and there are those that are Preying on Children, making the Images, and trying to draw others in, so they can make a profit, and increase their client base.
Tell a human something is "Taboo", and you will probably end up with a person committing a "Taboo" act, or at least trying to see one.

What the laws do, is ineffectively attacking in a "bottom to top" direction! This is insane.
Target the Rapists, Predators and Image Makers/Distributors, then, work out a LOGICAL, Efficient, Positive strategy for the effected groups at the bottom.