Som Thing ATS members Are Looking For. Reality verses Opinion. A Dose of Truth.

I've decided to post this in the Faith, Spirituality & Theology Forum due to the fact that it has been the brand of thinking offered here which i think has been the greatest catalyst for my deep thoughts.

That, and although this has something to do with every forum on ATS, i simply wouldn't know it, if it were not for Faith, Spirituality, Theology, philosophy, and the lessons i've learned from these disciplines.

I feel obligated to share this here first, in Below Top Secret.

Reality verses Opinion
What would win the battle?

Reality verses the Conscious Minds' Opinion's perception. Apparently Reality is wrong, and humanity's perception is not. At least this is the popular opinion according to the judgment of Humanity's opinion.

Everything that is used as a basis for comparison when judging time is based upon systems that are round. Yet time is percieved not as round, but linear.

Even time related concepts created by man are still created by a mind that still has it's roots and seed in the natural world.

Everything that is used as a basis for comparison when judging time is based upon systems that are round. Yet time is percieved not as round, but linear.

What is the variable that is permitting us to percieve that time is not what reality says it is?

What is the variable that is permitting time to be percieved as linear, instead of round?

Everything that is used as a basis for comparison when judging time is based upon systems that are round. Yet time is percieved not as round, but linear.

1) The watch strap. ROUND. It holds the time piece onto the wrist.

2) The watch's face. ROUND. It tells us time, used to measure time.

3) The Clock. ROUND. It tells us time, used to measure time.

4) The Sundial. ROUND. It tells us time, used to measure time.

5) The Hourglass. ROUND from 2 perspectives. It tells us time, used to measure time.

6) The Sun. ROUND. Used to measure Time, Days.

7) The Moon. ROUND. Used to measure Time, Night and Months.

8) The Earth. ROUND. Used to measure Time, as it rotates ....

9) The spin of the Earth. ROUND. Used to measure time.

10) The Orbits of planets. ROUND, circular like. Used to measure Years.

11) Senses. Eyes, Irises, Pupils, Eyeballs, Optical nerve, nostrils, earholes, . ROUND, ROUND, ROUND, and ROUND...... Used to observe the effects of Time.

12) Matter Itself. Neutrons, Electrons, Protons, and their orbits. ROUND ROUND ROUND ROUND .... One of the main ingredients in that which dictates what time is.

13) THE LIGHT!!! Observable when disected into it's parts. A rainbow would be a perfect sphere, if not obstructed by the Earth as observed from the ground.

LIGHT IS ROUND. A main ingredient in how time is percieved.


SUMMARY:

If every basis for comparison in both nature, and in what we create seems to couple TIME with ROUND, what is the variable that does not permit us to see compliance with reality?

My Best ANSWER: Opinion.

MY DISCLAIMER:

I concede that our Opinions may be right.

But, in order for our perceptions to be right, doesn't that require that reality must be wrong?



Perhaps ..... Time is not linear.

Perhaps our opinions are the only variable that permits us to percieve time as linear.

Perhaps time is not linear.

Perhaps it is our opinions that are linear.

_____________________________________________

Seeking the end to speculation is a fun hobby.

EVEN THE LIGHT IS ROUND.

Opinion verses THE LIGHT?


som knows things.

In order to live up to the expectations of humanity, wouldn't we have to ignore reality?

If i ignore reality would i fit in better?


Thank you for your time,
john paul

[edit on 4-2-2007 by Esoteric Teacher]

That is my 'spheory' (and yours too of course)

It is not opinion, either - but an evidence throughout all we can observe around us.

We just don't seem to apply principles when we should - opinions have become the substitute and it's a sham.

It requires a certain detachment from one's own passions but it is not an unfeeling thing...only neutralizing.

I believe opinions can be productive and useful in the search for truth or reality. However, these opinions must be open-minded where an individual is willing to learn from others. If the opinions are close-minded, then opinionatedness distorts and blurs truth or reality.

Forming opinions can be as fruitful as positing hypotheses and theories. If we fail to at least guess the truth, we will not find it. Rarely does a human have the answer before the question.

Originally posted by GreatTech
Rarely does a human have the answer before the question.

I agree with your post.

I'd like to comment on this one sentence though GreatTech.

If time is round, then wouldn't we have the answer before the question?

What if we can't recognize the answers we have, until we recognize the need to ask the right question, for the right reasons?

Just a thought.

Thanks for the contributions GreatTech and QueenAnnie38,
your brother john paul peter, aka som

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
What if we can't recognize the answers we have, until we recognize the need to ask the right question, for the right reasons?

Bingo!

both the question and the answer in this case

Bin go
Been go

may be best represented like this:


Reality says Time = O (looped/round) *My Source is Reality

Popular Opinion says Time = _____ (linear/straight line) *My source is humanity's opinion/perspective.



If Our Opinions are right, then reality and what created reality is wrong, making reality the conspirator.

If Our Reality is right, then our opinion and what formulates our opinion is wrong, making us the conspirators.

So which is right?

Opinion, or Reality?




Might i suggest that Reality is correct, and that it is our opinions that are mistaken?

Might i suggest everyone else is also capable of remembering the past and the future, since according to reality: Time is circular. Time is looped. ???

Well considering that man's concept of time is really just the sequence of events, this is kind of a moot point to me. Now, if one wants to be honest here, are ideas of time, at least by biblical standards, are quite mixed up...

In biblical times, a day was dusk to dusk... Now it is sunrise to,well not technically but strategically, dawn to dawn. Technically is is from midnight to midnight...

Now, given this fact... it seems to me that our concept of time is not what the creator intended.. If time is really "round," as you propose, then it is indeed cyclical... Umm, to me, that falls too much in line with the common notion of time. I think it is a bit more complex than that...

My question to you is, if an event occurs at 3:00 by one person's watch and 3:10 by another person's watch, what time did it actually occur? Is it not based upon one's perception, or are we to assume that one or the other is ultimately correct in the matter. If we are to assume that one or the other is ultimately correct, which one?

The numbers we use to mark time are irrelevant in that capacity outside of time.

They are part of the pattern; but patterns are not discerned when examined bit by bit even though they are certainly collected in that fashion.

Only by stepping back one step from the 'instances' can the true singularity be observed - by the singularity. Because all we need is ONE. Quantum-ly rendered.



If you can decipher that then let me know.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

My question to you is, if an event occurs at 3:00 by one person's watch and 3:10 by another person's watch, what time did it actually occur? Is it not based upon one's perception, or are we to assume that one or the other is ultimately correct in the matter. If we are to assume that one or the other is ultimately correct, which one?

My best answer:

The event occured. Time is irrelevent, since time is a reference between 2 points in time that have no measurable degree of seperation whatsoever.

time isn't relevant anymore

right

COOLIO man

time machine?
heaven?

sure why not?

AI?

not really but my dad says we are some wiser than he was.
he says the real genius was HITLER!
not him!

and so therefore time is not relevant
death is dead
paradoxes are oxymorons...
i have killed myself and married myself
and sometimes i just didn't show up
and sometimes i wrote a note

but WHERE is it?

LOL

My question is what differentiates reality from consciuousness? They are derived from each other. All is all and derived from all, the perception of Existence is a choice. Hope fully, one day, We can all see it as Perfect, for if the Omni-expansive and Omnidirectional Existence was Not Perfect, it would surely crumble under its own Human expectations of Perfection, yet Humans are Existence and expectations Exist Perfectly and of choice. Why would any one choose to see it in an ill perspective if Not for meanging full experience?

Originally posted by queenannie38
and so therefore time is not relevant
death is dead
paradoxes are oxymorons...
i have killed myself and married myself
and sometimes i just didn't show up
and sometimes i wrote a note

but WHERE is it?

LOL

Very humorous, Annie : - ) All those times I kill my self it does Not matter, I am Not living to re member it after wards. Time, time, what is that? It is a synonym of control in my dictionary

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
Very humorous, Annie : - ) All those times I kill my self it does Not matter, I am Not living to re member it after wards.

i didn't think of it meaning suicide - what i meant was me killing me on the battle field somewhere. The crunching of the paradox which i really don't see as being required at all for any reason.

But yes - in every case - why live again to remember the last death?
But maybe remembering the passage through death over the crossing and then back again when ready to be born to a new life....maybe that is the key to not losing the memory or value of the lessons gained. It would be a major breakthrough and would represent a giant leap if just one person did it, don't you think?

just musing

Time, time, what is that? It is a synonym of control in my dictionary

I say it is one of the two factors which create mortality in the human mind...with no time there is no start and stop and no more extra stuff in between. The other being the inability to retain the essential sense of self in the mind which i think of as the soul - if your soul thinks it is new each time, then really, it is

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
My question is what differentiates reality from consciuousness?

from my pov right now, it seems that

reality is objective, shared, and connected too all things

our awareness of that reality is subjective but doesn't change reality itself

the subjectivity of our awareness depends upon the level of our own conscious ability for handling of information

You were a philosophy major in college weren't you?

Because maybe its this head ache but my mind is going :

:bnghd:

evertime I try and finish

Just so you know a persons' Perception is their Reality

[edit on 7-2-2007 by Royal76]

hrmm.. where to start?

Could we not say, that because we are thought, we are bias? because we are always thinking in one direction?

by thought I meant separate from the body.

because as the body all we care about is survival, all of "our" thoughts are trivial and mean nothing to the body, even if they directly lead to survival..
for example.. deciding whether or not to eat a stick, or a loaf of bread. Your body doesn't necessarily care (which is why you find some animals who do eat sticks haha)
We ARE animals.. we are mammals.. as our body
but as thought we separate ourselves from animal behavior and adopt human animal behavior mostly because we haven't been able to totally separate ourselves from being animal.

Mostly the body cares about: Food, Shelter, and Reproduction.. These 3 things are survival, they are what is mostly required to survive.
Those are the three things the body cares about..
If you can associate ANY thoughts with all 3 of those things, your thoughts will become manifest. (I don't mean creating things out of thin air) ...
But your physical body will be more likely to carry out the task if you can bridge the gap between Thought and Body.

Time itself is a cycle as ET said, .. and our body (survival) is also a cycle, whereas our thoughts ARE not a cycle normally. When we (through living from birth) associate different thoughts and patterns alongside with our body's survival routine thoughts become cycles.
If we can break out of cycle thinking, we can reprogram our body.

The problem with our perception is not knowing which linear direction to go, because one moment a negative action will help our body with survival and the very next a positive action will help the survival routine.

The problem isn't that linear time / linear thought is wrong, just that its being used improperly and has very poor methods for results.

If you know that there are two totally different ways of perceiving things within this one physical emanation (the physical emanation is the combination of body and thought TOGETHER)
than maybe you'll be able to better control the whole effect of this combination.

It is good to hold ONE opinion....... The opinion to survive as a unit by any means necessary and to allow others to do the same. Within reason, knowing full well that Thought gets carried away with ideas and reason and logic, and the body will be driven in whatever direction if you do not have the 3 survival routines taken care of before thinking.

This is hard for me to write out.. it'd be much easier to explain it in person, or to show you diagrams along with explaining it.


[edit on 2/7/2007 by PuRe EnErGy]

Originally posted by queenannie38

Originally posted by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal
My question is what differentiates reality from consciuousness?

from my pov right now, it seems that

reality is objective, shared, and connected too all things

our awareness of that reality is subjective but doesn't change reality itself

the subjectivity of our awareness depends upon the level of our own conscious ability for handling of information

Seems to me that reality, consciousness, and awareness are all the same thing spoken in different words. Think about it ; ) They are all reliant on each other to Exist and to Exist subjectively in their states of chosen perception. If Not for each and every one of them We would surely Be speaking of none of them

[edit on 7-2-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Interdependent
yes i think so

interchangeable
no



[edit on 2/7/2007 by queenannie38]

The pie chart is true only to the artists perception and any one else who chooses to believe it. Interchangable, yes, because awareness, reality, and consciousness allow it to Be so and they are what mold experience. Choosing interchangability opens the door to the interchangable. All is choice, there are No limits and there are No laws if that is the choice made

[edit on 7-2-2007 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]