A World of Paper Tigers, like China!

China is not as strong as you think and the US is not as weak as you think militarily, economically and socially! IMHO

Hi Mel, it does not matter what I think its America's potential enemies that are of concern. And America has never had to fight a war on its own turf, even paper tigers can cut.

Militarily, China is at least 40 years behind America in technology, experience and personnel training. There is no way that China can win a global war against America in at least 100 years. Russia, Europe and Japan are all much better in its military strength.

Economically, China can only do massive production, which is the lowest form of economy. Japan and Europe can do designs and technology. America controls the finance and standards. It is America setting up the rules and other countries have to obey it. Simple trade deficit is not a problem for America, because it can easily turn the deficit into surplus if it is determined to do so.

Recent "China Threat" propaganda is just an alibi fabricated by Pentagon for it to get more money from the Congress. People there are missing the good old days of cold war.

America controls what! Maybe you have missed the news but America cannot even control whats going on inside Iraq, China is not 9 trillion dollars in debt, China is not losing its markets, China is not impaling herself on wars that it cannot win.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
America controls what! Maybe you have missed the news but America cannot even control whats going on inside Iraq, China is not 9 trillion dollars in debt, China is not losing its markets, China is not impaling herself on wars that it cannot win.

China can't even control Taiwan! What a super power! Relies on the US Navy to keep shipping lanes open!

Originally posted by magicmushroom
America controls what! Maybe you have missed the news but America cannot even control whats going on inside Iraq, China is not 9 trillion dollars in debt, China is not losing its markets, China is not impaling herself on wars that it cannot win.

Alright, Ive read enough of your uneducated garbage. Your in desperate need of a reality check..

The most recent Federal Reserve estimates suggest that the US productivity machine is humming and that US economic potential growth is likely to be from anywhere in the neighborhood of 3 to 3.5% for the foreseeable future. This would be not only a triumph for free-market economics but would place the US economy in a class of its own among the world's more mature economies. But facts be damned right?

The US has the worlds LARGEST economy still! And it looks to stay that way for the foreseeable future.

You are aware that China, and India are outsourcing jobs as well right? Does that mean they are losing their markets? According to you...yes. Good one sherlock. Its all part of the pecking order.

For every job the US loses the US creates 5 more. Did you know that? America creates more jobs in 1 month then Germany or France create in 1 ENTIRE YEAR!

The US is losing the war in Iraq? According to whom? the media? You? Have you actually stepped foot on the ground there and seen this for yourself? Im guessing NO so their for you are stating your uneducated 'opinion' (again). Its like that ol' saying goes...opinions are like ########. everyones got one... So..forgive me If I take your worthless 'opinion' as just another ########.
But your the arm chair general..

The US is $9 trill in the whole?....

US deficit is actually shrinking
www.csmonitor.com...

It should be also noted that the American GDP is growing faster then the debt is, which makes american debt more 'manageable' for the foreseeable future.

Nobody, not even china itself is even close to surpassing the US. Let me post that article I posted earlier on here...

Why the US Will Still be the Only Superpower in 2030
futurist.typepad.com...

The rest of your post is just your worthless, illinformed, unprofessional, biased opinion, that isnt worth the time.. And what are opinions like?...






[edit on 092828p://0502pm by semperfoo]

[edit on 092828p://1102pm by semperfoo]

[edit on 25-2-07 by DJDOHBOY]

Originally posted by mel1962
China can't even control Taiwan! What a super power! Relies on the US Navy to keep shipping lanes open!

America cant control Cuba
American cant control Venezuela
America cant control North Korea
American can control Iran


Is America a superpower?

Semper its a shame you have to resort to personal insults rather than discussing the topic.

America has 7 million unemployed as of Jan 07 the labour market is unchanged. You statement of more jobs are created cannot be true if you have 7 million unemployed.

The Futurist report is just an opinion and a biased one at that.

I did not say the US was losing in Iraq I said it cannot control the situation which is true if you believe it or not.

The US will hold its position for a while but will be overtaken by China, China's rate of growth at the moment is around 10%.

The US deficeit is improving for now but the future is uncertain thats what the report states.

And since I have been awarded many points from the mods for the work I do here on ATS I think comments such as uneducated and a--hole say more about the author of those words dont you think.

The US is losing the war in Iraq? According to whom? the media? You? Have you actually stepped foot on the ground there and seen this for yourself? Im guessing NO so their for you are stating your uneducated 'opinion' (again). Its like that ol' saying goes...opinions are like assholes. everyones got one... So..forgive me If I take your worthless 'opinion' as just another asshole.

BBC News

"Asked by the next chairman of the panel, Democratic Senator Carl Levin, if he believed the US was winning, Mr Gates replied: "No, Sir.""

Although in that article it goes that Mr. Gates backtracked and said that the US was neither winning or losing. I however don't think in war there is such thing as "neither winning or losing".

Well it seems the United States government agress with Mr. Magicmushroom.

Semperfoo i'm not trying to dig it in or anything, but referring to his opinon as alike to an as*hole is quite petty.

As far as China being impotent within recent memory, sure. As far as the U.S. being dominant, no doubt.
But one need only look at history to see that fortunes can change rapidly and dramatically.
At one point Rome was just a backwards farming community, look what happened. Witness the Mongols, at one point a bunch of scraggly nomads, within a few decades they made Asia, Europe and the Middle East cower(then they went back to being scraggly nomads). The list goes on and on. Examine Germany and Japan in the last century, again going from virtual nothings to dominance to second tier players, in a very short span.
So don't just assume that because things are the way they are
now that the order can't be changed within a short time. Possibly within our lifetimes. A lot of signs seem to indicate this is happening.

[edit on 25-2-2007 by passenger]

Originally posted by passenger
As far as China being impotent within recent memory, sure. As far as the U.S. being dominant, no doubt.
But one need only look at history to see that fortunes can change rapidly and dramatically.
At one point Rome was just a backwards faming community, look what happened. Witness the Mongols, at one point a bunch of scraggly nomads, within a few decades they made Asia, Europe and the Middle East cower(then they went back to being scraggly nomads). The list goes on and on. Examine Germany and Japan in the last century, again going from virtual nothings to dominance to second tier players, in a very short span.
So don't just assume that because things are the way they are
now that the order can't be changed within a short time. Possibly within our lifetimes. A lot of signs seem to indicate this is happening.

Very good point passenger, I guess only time will tell!

Originally posted by magicmushroom
Semper its a shame you have to resort to personal insults rather than discussing the topic.

I used sarcasm mixed with a bit of humor...which seems to be frowned upon on a board like this. Honestly I get tired of hearing whats wrong with america. I know its not perfect, but damn its not that bad.. I think this board is dominated by ppl who would love to see nothing more then the US collapse. The thing these same ppl fail to understand is if the US goes, then so does the interdependent world economy.. So in the end no one wins.

America has 7 million unemployed as of Jan 07 the labour market is unchanged. You statement of more jobs are created cannot be true if you have 7 million unemployed.

Americas economy has created over 7.2 Million Jobs Since August 2003. Our employment rate is 4.5%. This is well below the 5.1 percent average rate for 2005, and below the average of each of the past four decades. Also, payroll jobs increased 167,000 in December alone, and have increased by more than 600,000 jobs in the past four months.... So really I dont see how we are "losing are markets" like you seem to think. Perhaps wishful thinking on your part? how about some credit to americas economy which is constantly, and rapidly expanding..

The Futurist report is just an opinion and a biased one at that.

It is an educated opinion with many formulated sources to back up its claims.

I did not say the US was losing in Iraq I said it cannot control the situation which is true if you believe it or not.

Honestly whats the difference? "We cannot control Iraq"...Thats pretty much like saying we are losing... I beg to differ...

The US will hold its position for a while but will be overtaken by China, China's rate of growth at the moment is around 10%.

I guess its just a matter of opinion...

10% over a long period of time is unsustainable. China is a undeveloped nation that relies too heavily on exports.( note that developing nations do tend to grow faster then developed ones) Its a nation of cheap labor. China is not growing at 10% and probably never has. Chinas official GDP numbers are constantly overstated.. chinas economic growth stats have been comeing under scrutiny for the past several years. So I wouldnt put to much confidence in them. Isnt a bit odd how the provinces grew faster then china as a whole actually grew? with the average 'suggested' growth in chinas provinces being about 13%. Thats a bit odd isnt it? China's national economic statistics, which are compiled from provincial data, have no safeguards against political meddling. The provinces just tell the elites of china what they want to hear.

China admits economic data 'unreliable'
news.bbc.co.uk...

china will eventually surpass the EU and Japan... however china wont surpass the US before 2030 and more then likely wont pass the US before the Technological singularity which would make the point a moot one.

The US deficeit is improving for now

Yes it is.. Had we listened to you though earlier....any ill informed person reading this wouldn't have known any better.

but the future is uncertain thats what the report states.

Well thank you captain obvious!

By that same token tomorrow itself is not guaranteed.

What would you say if the report would have said "the future is certain!" You probably would say BULLSH#T. And rightfully so.....

Indeed their are uncertain variables one has to take into account...One example is a possibility of a terrorist attack of epic proportions..Another could be an asteroid on a collision course with earth...

And since I have been awarded many points from the mods for the work I do here on ATS I think comments such as uneducated and a--hole say more about the author of those words dont you think.

WHOA look at all those points you have!!!! Oh im so sorry. I had know clue.... So that must mean since you have all those ats points your opinion must be more valuable.. You must never ever be wrong ......................... Good for you! You get credit for being a nerd and having 'way to much time on your hands'! What do you plan on buying with all your worthless ATS points? Inquiring minds want to know....
And, again with the opinions... By using your same logic, its kinda like the name "magicmushroom," which must imply that the original poster that I responded to is a shroom head? I mean after all, the name must fit the face, right? Honestly paint whatever picture you like about me...I couldnt care anymore, or less. My life doesnt revolve around a message board, much less a conspiracy one..

[edit on 022828p://2902am by semperfoo]

Originally posted by Pendu
Semperfoo i'm not trying to dig it in or anything, but referring to his opinon as alike to an as*hole is quite petty.

You need a sense of humor to appreciate that comment...
Lets get one things straight. Im not on here for a popularity contest..

You can have your opinion about Iraq. However I have friends who have fought over their that are in the USMC. I take their word over some democratic senator who is tucked safely away in his country club plaza. Did it ever cross your mind that this fool is playing politics? I mean with a commen t like "we're not winning, but we're not losing". So we're neutral... This fool knows that the american ppl dont want to lose but he cant be to pro "hey we're winning" because for one, hes a democrat..undermining and trying to embarrass the bush administration and republican party alike is in their nature. And two, the liberal media has had its way with the populous already.

Ask yourself one question.. Why does the media tend to focus on one city where the violence "in particular" is really bad? Im talking about Baghdad which is one city and does not represent all of Iraq. Their is alot of bad ppl over there doing alot of bad things. But on the flip side, there is also alot of good ppl over there doing alot of good things as well. Funny how you dont hear about the "good news" PERIOD from the liberal media..

[edit on 022828p://3102am by semperfoo]

Originally posted by semperfoo

China admits economic data 'unreliable'
news.bbc.co.uk...

china will eventually surpass the EU and Japan... however china wont surpass the US before 2030 and more then likely wont pass the US before the Technological singularity which would make the point a moot one.

Even if it's overstated sometimes (the news article was dated 2001 - 5years ago is quite a long time in terms of china's progress), the actually growth rate in the past few years were higher than the government initially wanted/planned -- such quick growth might turn into inflation.

the chinese government planned to keep the growth at 8% a year, but the actually rate in the past few years have all went above 10%, and as high as 13%


i do expect the growth to cool down a little bit in the years to come after all the new policies they made, but it's likely to remain very high


[edit on 2/26/2007 by warset]

warset

Damn lies and Chinese statistics Posted August 19, 2006
www.atimes.com...

Making China's numbers add up Posted October 24, 2005
simonworld.mu.nu...

Asia Times: China's GDP figures: Are they bogus? Posted February 17, 2003
www.clearharmony.net...

The reputation of the People's Republic as an economic powerhouse is based in part on pure bunk Posted April 1, 2002
www.friendsoftibet.org...

Nothings changed...



[edit on 012828p://5002pm by semperfoo]

like i said before

whether china is paper or not, it all depends on how you want to look at it

china's GDP measured in Nominal was the the 4th in the world, after US japan and Germany

but if you measure china's GDP in terms of PPP (the purchasing power), china is just behind the US by a little bit, and by far, higher than other countries in the world

you can argue that the reason they have that is because there are more ppl in the country. but in another sense, when you are comparing countries, you can't just compare their GDP per capita, you have to measure the power of the nation as a whole, thus the GDP, no an individual person of the nation.

also, the special chinese policies artificially controls the value of their currency, making an artificially lowered labour price, comparable to those poorest countries in africa. (which can also be seen as an illusion)

china also have almost by far, the world's highest foreign reserves, and the US's biggest external creditor

so they do have cards to play when it comes to an economic battle

ppl do have to consider all these factors before jumping to the conclusion by simply examine their apparantly low currency value of the GDP per capita.

[edit on 2/26/2007 by warset]

Originally posted by semperfoo
warset

Damn lies and Chinese statistics Posted August 19, 2006
www.atimes.com...

Making China's numbers add up Posted October 24, 2005
simonworld.mu.nu...

Asia Times: China's GDP figures: Are they bogus? Posted February 17, 2003
www.clearharmony.net...

The reputation of the People's Republic as an economic powerhouse is based in part on pure bunk Posted April 1, 2002
www.friendsoftibet.org...

apparantly, i believe the world bank data more than some news reporters

[edit on 2/26/2007 by warset]

Originally posted by warset

Originally posted by semperfoo
warset

Damn lies and Chinese statistics Posted August 19, 2006
www.atimes.com...

Making China's numbers add up Posted October 24, 2005
simonworld.mu.nu...

Asia Times: China's GDP figures: Are they bogus? Posted February 17, 2003
www.clearharmony.net...

The reputation of the People's Republic as an economic powerhouse is based in part on pure bunk Posted April 1, 2002
www.friendsoftibet.org...

apparantly, i believe the world bank data more than some news reporters

[edit on 2/26/2007 by warset]

Hey peter pan... Santa claus isnt real.

Originally posted by semperfoo

Hey peter pan... Santa claus isnt real.

that's what you should tell urself

you'd rather believe some media reporter's opinion than the world bank data
this is just like saying that you would rather believe ur christmas gifts are from Santa, not from ur parents or friends

[edit on 2/26/2007 by warset]

Originally posted by warset
than the world bank data

that's what you should tell urself

Uh no im telling you that..

you'd rather believe some media reporter's opinion

I could see how you formulated that opinion of yours by NOT READING THE SOURCES! They looked at the economic data and explained the anomalies, China itself has even admitted its economic data being UNRELIABLE. Are they lieing? I think your wrong.

The World Bank itself estimates that China overstated its growth between 1978 and 1995 by 1.2 percent a year, the OECD believes the overstatement was 3.8 percent. In 2001 the chinese government itself came out and said that its economic data is unreliable. The sources Ive posted that are up to date reassure that nothings changed! But facts be damned..right?
www.fdic.gov...

Your evidence is non existent and inconclusive. Ive provided many sources that state the obvious while you have provided none...

Warset, with your post below, youve shown me that your stunning lack of ingenuity is second to none... Your a legend in your own mind.

this is just like saying that you would rather believe ur christmas gifts are from Santa, not from ur parents or friends

Your honor..I rest my case.

[edit on 022828p://4402pm by semperfoo]