1000 DEAD, just imagine that for second.

Originally posted by Phoenix
NOT ONE WORD, about those who kill for a disagreement about religious succession.

NOT ONE WORD, about fanatics who kill for their religious beliefs.

NOT ONE WORD, for Iran or Syria - the main external agitators.

NOT ONE WORD, for the self styled militias with their own aims for power.

NOT ONE WORD, in defence of the fledgling Iraqi democracy whom the people voted for.

NOPE, instead all we get here is more Bush derangment syndrome, which accomplishs absolutely nothing.

Sorry Pheonix, I had to read that a few times to udnerstand wether you were refering to the americans, or Iraqi's.. but i think i get it now.

''NOT ONE WORD, about those who kill for a disagreement about religious succession.''

religous? Orite.. how about Church and state coming together on this illegial war
what was it '' God wants me to invade Iraq '' ?
no no no, it was '' Jesus has told me, invading Iraq is the right thing to do ''

jee's I really cant remember... what was it Bush said again?

"NOT ONE WORD, for Iran or Syria - the main external agitators."

Your right, because.. before we opened the doors on Iraq.... were Iran and Syria bombing, and supplying munitions to Iraqi's ??
I cant really recall.....mmm nup cant think of anything, actually as I remember it... Saddam was doing a good job at keeping Iran subdued....

But being we have hung him..... well... we sorta INVITED them in a sense.
Poor ol saddam..... but i spose.. dead men tell no lies eh!

why is it we jump up and down yelling at Iran for attacking Americans in Iraq... when we bombed the CRAP outta the place, invaded and then occupied.
who here tipped the scales in the immediate direction of ' anarchy ' Iran, or America?

"NOT ONE WORD, for the self styled militias with their own aims for power."

ahh Right, so what is it we call cheney and Bush, Halliburton Exxon and all the other oil companies.... the defense contractors...
Wait, there legitimate militia's, under the guise of corporations....
Plus, they are backed by a government..... which makes them righteous.
Iraqi militia are backed by the NATIVE PEOPLE OF IRAQ.. that makes them insurgents, I hear ya!

"NOT ONE WORD, in defence of the fledgling Iraqi democracy whom the people voted for."

1. I do not believe in the government.. why ? because it was setup UNDER occupation. This occupation was ILLEGIAL and not ASKED FOR by the Iraqi People. The people didnt vote for someone they wanted.....

Because for months and months and months they DIDNT rally to have the president to be man.....

in the weeks leadnig up to the vote, they didnt even know who the f'n candidates WERE!

They had a choice.
Dont vote, and allow anarcy to continue
OR vote for someone you know nothing about.. but who swears he's legit...

The people voted for Gore to at one stage you know...... But you got bush, you got sept11, then you got Iraq.

damn, seems you got screwed!!!!!!!!!!!!

"NOPE, instead all we get here is more Bush derangment syndrome, which accomplishs absolutely nothing."

Yeah thats true, no matter how bad, or how many illegial acts this man performs.. no matter how much he changes your constitution or bill of rights.. no matter how stupid he makes america look.. you all still beleive he's the man for the job.

But, Im not normally a hating person believe it or not.
If someone has the right values at mind... wether i dont like them personally I will respect them for what they stand for.

Sorry to say, but I have not seen 1 single minute thing come from this man and his administation that has done anything to better mankind, be it in America, or abroad.

Not one bloody thing.

Yet.. im at fault here , because I want to epress my utter disgust that such a respectable superpower, has allowed a group of people to destroy everything man has worked for in the last 200yrs... in only 6 shot years.

Originally posted by Royal76
Thought it is sad and horrible that 1,000 people died in a 7 day span.

Sadam actually gassed and killed several cities at the same time once. I've seen the video and if I can find it, i'll post it. There were far, far more dead in a few hours because of this.

So quit acting like this is something new.

Your right,

Saddam gassed his OWN people, estiamtes from 700-5000 dead.

Does that mean its O.K to walk in, murder 10 times that amount.... then sit back debating IF Iraqs in civil war when 1000 die in a week?

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
The people voted for Gore to at one stage you know......

Don't know if you heard, but Gore may likely run for 2008 President, posing a very interesting dilemma for Hillary and the Democratic party. If he comes out saying he would end the war as well, like Hillary, I can only guess what the people will do, and imo, it's a tossup. Hillary's got some pull, and Obama's creeping up, but if Gore runs, imo Obama can kiss it goodbye.

I really hope he does run.
His stance on the enviroment is something we badly need imo.

I dont nessecarily think the next President will decide personally how to win Iraq... it will fall on a select few advisors, who will debate it out amongst them the less damaging way to find a measure for success.


I hadnt heard him announce his running though, I might scan now.

Phoenix you mentioned the people in Iraq voting....well think about it, the people were hearing that we would get out as soon as a government was set up and they did what they thought would get rid of us right away, so of course they voted. They wanted us out of there and thought it would help keep their butts from getting fragged to hell.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
...to find a measure for success.

The question is though, the measure of success from who's standpoint? And how can all those dead equal success from ANY standpoint? The idea that would = the least amount of deaths from this point forward, is one that needs to seriously be considered. At that indeed may mean, growl, that we HAVE to keep additional troops in Iraq for some time, lest the place erupt into total anarchy and chaos even further, which is arguably already occurring. The act of going there and stirring up a hornets nest forces us in itself to stay there to a degree.

The moral question does need to be considered though, that if more deaths would occur if we left, then what, Agit? We can't just withdraw. A public announcement for the intent to withdraw in a phased redeployment might quell the fighting some and bring Sunnis and Shia at least to a point where they don't have Americans to deal with on their soil. As to the "democracy," I'd be curious to see any remnants remain without serious US or UN proxy control.

Oh, and as to Gore running, yeah the links are out there, you'll find em. Wouldn'ta said if hadn'ta read it. Was an insider thing I think I read on Rawstory or Drudge.

No. America did not bring a civil war to Iraq.

We enabled it.

You cannot draq lines in the sand and expect people to conform to it.. the best thing we can do is stop the influx of weaponry (Iran) and let them sort it out, and accept what ever the outcome is.. which will most likely be a dictator of some kind. We don't actually care about giving them democracy as long as we get what we need... note the Congo.. deadliest war since WW2 and no one talks about it, the people are armed by out side investments such as China, Russia and America.. then they butcher eachother but the resources are safe and accessable.. not to mention very cheap.

Aside the point what I am argueing is these people wanted to kill eachother for a very long time.. they will naturally fight when the cage is open. I find it odd that no one cares about the Kurds...... they really made it out with this war.. the civil war is mostly placed in Bahgdad, one city.. because thats where the Sunnis lived at the height of their power while in the slums like Sadr City, the Shia lived in their shadows..... well now that they are surounded revenge will be easy.

America did not create this hostility.. Saddam did.

As far as Saddam killing 1,000 exactly in one week since 1997 is unknown.. many mass graves have been found and we just don't know when they where filled.. but can put most of them within the last 20 years. Do you think after 1991 he turned into a nice and humble man? Once a tyrant, always a tyrant. The stories from his secret prisions are sickening, the stories of the rapes heartbreaking, the stories of the torture wrenching.. they are innocent people subjected to a living hell... The fact that we can give them the chance to fight back is great imo.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop


Sorry Pheonix, I had to read that a few times to udnerstand wether you were refering to the americans, or Iraqi's.. but i think i get it now.


religous? Orite.. how about Church and state coming together on this illegial war
what was it '' God wants me to invade Iraq '' ?
no no no, it was '' Jesus has told me, invading Iraq is the right thing to do ''

jee's I really cant remember... what was it Bush said again?

Nah, you missed it - was reference to Shia/Sunni strife, the argument is about how succession is done - so they murder one another. Bush has nothing to do with it.

Your right, because.. before we opened the doors on Iraq.... were Iran and Syria bombing, and supplying munitions to Iraqi's ??
I cant really recall.....mmm nup cant think of anything, actually as I remember it... Saddam was doing a good job at keeping Iran subdued....

But being we have hung him..... well... we sorta INVITED them in a sense.
Poor ol saddam..... but i spose.. dead men tell no lies eh!

why is it we jump up and down yelling at Iran for attacking Americans in Iraq... when we bombed the CRAP outta the place, invaded and then occupied.
who here tipped the scales in the immediate direction of ' anarchy ' Iran, or America?

Oh yeah, Saddam was doing a fine job killing his own, where were you then? Not one pipsqueak out of ya when he put down the rebellion in the early 90's. In no sense did we invite in the Iranians nor the Syrians, they are there specifically because success in democracy would without a doubt end their rigeimes rule in their countries once the populance saw what is possible.

They will do everything possible to prevent that including finding useful idiots here in the west to spread their propaganda.

Anarcy is the fault of those who want an Irqi democracy to fail, and I may add those that desire this to fail in the west due to their hatred of all things American.

ahh Right, so what is it we call cheney and Bush, Halliburton Exxon and all the other oil companies.... the defense contractors...
Wait, there legitimate militia's, under the guise of corporations....
Plus, they are backed by a government..... which makes them righteous.
Iraqi militia are backed by the NATIVE PEOPLE OF IRAQ.. that makes them insurgents, I hear ya!

Nice try at deflection but..........
Most if not all these groups are funded and supplied externally, the native component goes right back to the Shia / Sunni religious argument which has existed much longer the Bush, Cheny and Halliburton have been around.

Your style of debate strongly shows signs of the derangement syndrome previously discussed. Does'nt really solve the issue at hand though.

1. I do not believe in the government.. why ? because it was setup UNDER occupation. This occupation was ILLEGIAL and not ASKED FOR by the Iraqi People. The people didnt vote for someone they wanted.....

Because for months and months and months they DIDNT rally to have the president to be man.....

in the weeks leadnig up to the vote, they didnt even know who the f'n candidates WERE!

They had a choice.
Dont vote, and allow anarcy to continue
OR vote for someone you know nothing about.. but who swears he's legit...

The people voted for Gore to at one stage you know...... But you got bush, you got sept11, then you got Iraq.

damn, seems you got screwed!!!!!!!!!!!!

In Reagan's words........"There you go again"

Well lets see.......The UN resolution made it legal, Congress made legal, The Iraqi's celebrated Saddams defeat, then it went to hell when Iran, aSyria along with Baathist's and religious nuts started killing civilians and soldiers alike.

The occupiers as you like to refer to US forces are not going around setting off truck bombs - no rather it is the yahoo's you seem to be defending that are causing all the mayhem.

If it were not for the interlopers the Iraqi people would be much further ahead in democratic representation - it is the very voilence by those you support that is the ball & chain stopping progress.

Yeah thats true, no matter how bad, or how many illegial acts this man performs.. no matter how much he changes your constitution or bill of rights.. no matter how stupid he makes america look.. you all still beleive he's the man for the job.

But, Im not normally a hating person believe it or not.
If someone has the right values at mind... wether i dont like them personally I will respect them for what they stand for.

Sorry to say, but I have not seen 1 single minute thing come from this man and his administation that has done anything to better mankind, be it in America, or abroad.

Not one bloody thing.

Its derangement syndrome plain as day - when are you to figure out that leads no where.

Reminds me of some here who find it easy to criticize but offer no solutions, funny is they won an election on that platform.

Yet.. im at fault here , because I want to epress my utter disgust that such a respectable superpower, has allowed a group of people to destroy everything man has worked for in the last 200yrs... in only 6 shot years.

I cannot agree with your statement above, I can however respect your empathy for those that are suffering - we wholly disagree on the true cause and viable solutions thats all.