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The Two Sides of Race-Relations

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posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
What's wrong with turning this question into a classroom or seminar to discuss ways to better approach racism?


- What are your credentials? On ATS, you're not a professor, you're a member. You're not an FSME.
- You're not discussing, you're preaching. We're not permitted to discuss unless we agree with you, because you accuse dissenters of being attackers.
- Your skin color doesn't make you an expert on racism.
- Racism isn't just a "black thing" that only black people know about.
- You approach every thread with the attitude that you have something to teach all the stupid little people, as if we couldn't research the Internet the same as you do if we wanted to do a scholastic study of racism!



They are not threatened by notions of education or information.


A respected "teacher" does not continually spew veiled attacks at the "students". You want respect, you're going to have to find a way to show a little.



I used to be quiet and take all the insults from you and others. I've endured over 75 pages worth of vitriol.


Ha! Shall I post some of your more "quite and enduring" posts from that thread??? Please! Remove the back of your hand from your forehead! The martyrdom you're expressing is breaking my heart!



Just move on ...


Honey, if we moved on, you'd hear nothig but crickets chirping...




posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
Frankly Chissler, please move along. I'm tired of your crap.


Tired of me attempting to understand where you substantiate your own beliefs? Tired of me wanting to actually discuss the issue? When I responded to your attacks verbatim, you were more than willing to discuss with me. Now that I have asked to stick to the subject at hand, you are asking me to move along.

Why?


Originally posted by ceci2006
Just chalk up this thread as being useless and move along. Believe your other friends and get stepping.


Why do you feel you are in any position to tell others members where and when to post? This is not your thread. It is Above Top Secret's thread. I am within my own right to discuss the issue, just as you are. My unwillingness to sling mud back and forth seems to be frustrating you.


Originally posted by ceci2006
In the long run, I look forward for some peace and quiet where some intelligent people can come and discuss this issue without being afraid or threatened about racial identity and power relations.


Peace and quiet on a discussion board? Peace and quiet on a sensitive and controversial issue? Or does peace and quiet imply that you are surrounded by "Yes Men"?

It confuses me that you are unwilling to take this thread back on track and discuss the matter that I have continued to ask. Respond with something on-topic and I will be more than willing to converse over our opinions and thoughts.



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:12 AM
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Since you both are organizing this "boycott", please move along. Leave me alone.

I'm tired of your crap. And I don't want to deal with any of you any more.

I will only address other members from now on.

Go away.

And if you think this "Boycott" is concocted, I got the post from FF in her usual mode of intimidation.



[edit on 18-2-2007 by ceci2006]



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
This is the another off the topic post created by FlyersFan.


LAST POST.

Nope. I removed it. I am boycotting any and all threads you start. This should make you happy. I am done. You get to have your echo chamber.

Edited to add -


Originally posted by ceci2006
Since you both are organizing this "boycott",


No. That would be ME. ALONE. I am telling anyone who wants to hear. Ceci wants a boycott of her threads ... so give it to her.

[edit on 2/18/2007 by FlyersFan]



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:18 AM
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I only would like the mods (Byrd, Ngydan, Asala, parrhesia, Majic, someone) to address this problem now.

I am tried of this same continual group harassing me and ruining my threads.

Or else, I would appreciate that this thread would be closed unless there are people who are willing to discuss the issue without thoughts of a vendetta. I would especially prefer someone who is not bothered by the terminology and has a reasonable attitude in trying to suggest some ideas about discussing racism so that the "semantic disconnect" stops.



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:19 AM
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Organizing a "boycott"? When have I ever said that I am attempting to "boycott" you or this thread? Another member who shares my point of view has stated this, but that is the extent of it. You generalize one member's thoughts and opinions to everyone else who shares her point of view.

Your mature approach of "taking your ball and going home" is very attractive. And no, I will not go away.

I genuinely want to discuss the issue and hear the thoughts and opinions of others.


Originally posted by ceci2006
I don't think you have to be a "special breed" to have a discussion about race. You do have to have an open mind, not have a fear of not being offended over a person's opinions, not to be quick to call someone racist for what they say, and to show respect for the other individual in the conversation. Most importantly, you have to have a sense of conscience.



Originally posted by ceci2006
But that depends on whether people are humble enough to look at themselves and accept responsibility for what they have done and said within conversations such as these.


If you really believe in what you have said, we can continue with a civil discussion. As the OP, I am hoping you will take the initiative.



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:21 AM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
I only would like the mods (Byrd, Ngydan, Asala, parrhesia, Majic, someone) to address this problem now.


There is no problem. You win. It's all yours. Have at it. Anyone who wishes to also join my boycott of any thread you start .. feel free to join in.

You should be happy. It's what you just said you wanted.

SERIOUSLY .. my final post. Have a nice life. Bu-bye.



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by ceci2006
This is the another off the topic post created by FlyersFan.


LAST POST.

Nope. I removed it. I am boycotting any and all threads you start. This should make you happy. I am done. You get to have your echo chamber.

Edited to add -


Originally posted by ceci2006
Since you both are organizing this "boycott",


No. That would be ME. ALONE. I am telling anyone who wants to hear. Ceci wants a boycott of her threads ... so give it to her.

[edit on 2/18/2007 by FlyersFan]



This is another record of FlyersFan's continual personal harassment of my threads, posts and person. She has systematically used threats, harassment, intimidation, re-editing, emoticons and other paraphenalia in order personally attack and harass me on the board.

She has even admitted an organized attempt of personal harassment with recruitment to others to assist in personally harassing me. She admits this in the last post as well as this post.

I am sorry that I have to take this step. However, I will do this until her behavior toward me stops.

This for any mod/supermod/staff that comes across this thread.

[edit on 18-2-2007 by ceci2006]



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:25 AM
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Originally posted by chissler
Organizing a "boycott"? When have I ever said that I am attempting to "boycott" you or this thread? Another member who shares my point of view has stated this, but that is the extent of it. You generalize one member's thoughts and opinions to everyone else who shares her point of view.

Your mature approach of "taking your ball and going home" is very attractive. And no, I will not go away.

I genuinely want to discuss the issue and hear the thoughts and opinions of others.


Originally posted by ceci2006
I don't think you have to be a "special breed" to have a discussion about race. You do have to have an open mind, not have a fear of not being offended over a person's opinions, not to be quick to call someone racist for what they say, and to show respect for the other individual in the conversation. Most importantly, you have to have a sense of conscience.



Originally posted by ceci2006
But that depends on whether people are humble enough to look at themselves and accept responsibility for what they have done and said within conversations such as these.


If you really believe in what you have said, we can continue with a civil discussion. As the OP, I am hoping you will take the initiative.



I will think about your words, even though I shouldn't. I'll reply in detail later on when the brouhaha from the others die down.

But I truly mean it. I don't want people here who are vendetta prone. I also do not want people who are ignorant in culture and are willing to intelligently discuss this issue without complaining about the terminology.

I am tired of people who are culturally illiterate and prone to displaying phobias about racial identity.

[edit on 18-2-2007 by ceci2006]



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
She has even admitted an organized attempt of personal harassment with recruitment to others to assist in personally harassing me.


Leaving you alone to post without anyone bothering you isn't harrassing you. It's giving you what you want. I am inviting everyone to give you exactly what you said you wanted ....

Seriously ... stop addressing my posts so I can leave you to your thread. It's what you want ... isn't it???



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by ceci2006
She has even admitted an organized attempt of personal harassment with recruitment to others to assist in personally harassing me.


Leaving you alone to post without anyone bothering you isn't harrassing you. It's giving you what you want. I am inviting everyone to give you exactly what you said you wanted ....

Seriously ... stop addressing my posts so I can leave you to your thread. It's what you want ... isn't it???





This is another record of FlyersFan's continual personal harassment of my threads, posts and person. She has systematically used threats, harassment, intimidation, re-editing, emoticons and other paraphenalia in order personally attack and harass me on the board.

She has even admitted to an organized attempt of personal harassment with recruitment to others to assist in personally harassing me. She admits this in the last post as well as this post.

I am sorry that I have to take this step. However, I will do this until her behavior toward me stops.

This for any mod/supermod/staff that comes across this thread.


[edit on 18-2-2007 by ceci2006]



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
I will think about your words, even though I shouldn't have to. I'll reply in detail later on when the brouhaha from the others die down.


Ceci, I really and truly wish you knew me on a personal level. The next statement is an assumption, and if I am incorrect, please right my wrong. But I think you perceive me as sarcastic and insincere. When I am attempting to be genuine and sincere on a matter that I actually do care about. We have crossed paths in the past, as you have with others. With other members, friction is evident. It is unfortunate that this friction carries over to our minor squabble. I am not looking to bait you, or bicker any longer. I am looking to discuss the issues, and later today I will post some material that is completely relevant to the topic.

I've never said that you had to listen to me, that is your decision to make. But I do ask this. I am willing to wipe the slate clean between you and I so we can allow this subject so overcome our differences. I hope you too are willing to wipe the slate clean so we are able to have a civil discussion.

You do not need to respond to this, as I will respond later today with my thoughts and opinions on the subject. At that point, the ball will be in your court. If you wish to play, I will be waiting. If not, I completely respect your decision.

Either way, I would hope the slate is clean. I am not this horrible person that you perceive me to be.



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by ceci2006
so that others members will not be scared to contribute their opinion.

One thing I have not noticed to any degree on the part of ATS members is a fear to contribute. I do see that you have a substantial fear of hearing any opinion or even discussion point that might disagree with you.



I tried to persist in posting good information for people to read.

Yes, you did. Sadly, there seems to be little room for anyone who might have a different perception of this information, or wish to discuss or dispute any of it.



I continue to look for those people who simply want to deal with the issues as they are instead of trying to take time to trash a thread because of personal vendetta.

Bunk. You are looking for a group of non-thinking sycophants who will kneel at your feet and agree with everything you say. It appears to me that you do not want a discussion. You want Yes-people.



And I am saddened that the behavior of the worst perpetrators of this action continue to be condoned.

You are far and away the worst perpetrator of personal attacks and thread derailment. You are without peer.



What's wrong with turning this question into a classroom or seminar to discuss ways to better approach racism?

Nothing. If you wanted an honest discussion of the issue, we could have that. But I do not believe you want an honest discussion. You want to be right.



Some people have no problem with this. There are others who like to learn anything that they can to understand society. They are not threatened by notions of education or information.

And I am one of those people. As are, I believe, Chissler, HH, Semper, BH, FF, Riley, Duzey, Truthseeka, jsobecky and the list goes on and on. I believe you, however, have a big problem with anyone who even looks like they might disagree with you about anything.

I have several times attempted to discuss the matter with you. I was even involved in the infamous "75 page thread"... until you commented on how white people must have some sort of biological problem with understanding race issues.

I tried again on this thread. Instead of addressing the merits (or lack thereof) of my comments, you responded to them with attacks - asking me what gives me the right to change definitions, and insisting I am a member of the "dominant culture" exerting power over you because of the respective colors of our skins. And you insisted that I am responsible for the behavior of the "dominant culture". Bunk. If that is true, then you are responsible for every crime ever committed by a black person in the US, because of your skin color. Bunk I say.

And regarding your now edited out comment about the intelligence of the people particpating on this thread? I happen to know that the odds are very VERY high that I at least am more intelligent than you. All the official tests and related BS. Oh, the testers were most impresed with my numbers. And I happen to know that at least one other participant on this thread is very near my own level. Your latest attack, on the intelligence of these people, is just more of your, dare I say, Bunk.

I'd love to discuss this issue. If you ever grow up to be able to carry on a discussion at a higher level of maturity than PeeWee Herman "I know you are, what am I?", I'll be happy to engage.



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:51 AM
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I am carrying a discussion with a higher level of maturity. But unfortunately, I have had to be dragged down by troglodytes who have to make trouble because they are scared of not being in the position of power when it comes to a topic. I'm not being immature here. You all are.

No, OMS, I would much rather you move along than to wag your finger at me.

I want new members here and not the same group of people regurgitating the same old crap from thread to thread.

Save your sililoquy for someone who actually cares.

[edit on 18-2-2007 by ceci2006]



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:51 AM
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Many people here are as guilty as each other when it comes to taking stabs at each other.

There has been little violation of the T&C here if any, but this is turning into a war of members and not a discussion of race anymore.

The Complaints box is receiving regular input on this sole thread and to be honest, it is becoming a jumbled mess of annoyance at one another.

If you can't agree with each other, ignore each other and move on with the discussion!

FlyersFan, ignore Ceci.

Ceci, ignore FlyersFan (And I'm pretty sure we haven't had to "handle" FlyersFan about anything in this thread so enough with that!)

If this can't continue I'm just going to have to close the topic altogether.



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 11:55 AM
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Please do close the topic. I am tried of the same group of people trying to ruin my threads because they have an vendetta. I was sickened what they did to my "racism" thread. And now, I only foresee the same vitriol trying to end this thread.

I am sick of all of them and I would much rather deal with other topics and with kinder members right now without this cabal's input about how I should think or what I should concentrate on.

This is exactly what this cabal wants and I am going to give it them. I would like to be left alone as a result of the bargain.

Besides, doesn't the cabal know that there is a "Victimology" thread they need to attend to?

And, Simon, I am glad you are aware of my long, drawn out problem of being terrorized by FlyersFan. I have ignored her, but she won't stop following me from thread to thread. I hope that her behavior will be stopped from now on.

[edit on 18-2-2007 by ceci2006]



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 12:08 PM
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Come on now Ceci, you know your hands are just as dirty as ours.

I am attempting to ask you to join me in the initiative of discussing this issue and direct this thread back on topic. Yet you have yet to respond to my request.

Will you join me in ignoring these threats back and forth and stick to discussing the issue? If you are, I am more than willing to make the effort to stick to the subject. But it takes more than one to discuss an issue, as it is a give and take process.

If you are ready, I am willing.

All the best,
chissler



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 12:12 PM
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My hands aren't dirty. Yours are dirty. Now leave me alone and take your crap somewhere else where you will get an audience. That would be BH's thread. Discuss it there where you can all pat each other on the back.

Otherwise, just go away and be satisfied that you all have ruined another one of my threads because you all wanted to.

Be glad with what you've done. Be especially glad that your type of behavior is being condoned here.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Speaking of the inability to not take up an argument, I have to correct this accusation. I have taken up arguments with a great deal of people on the board. I just find it unfortunate that the ignorant, the self-serving and the phobic have started a campaign against me to close my threads and to create trouble.

They are probably glad to have obtained what they wanted to do. In fact, they are probably very smug.

This is their mess that they created. Not mine. I will not take the blame for the ignorance and cultural illiteracy of other people. Nor, will I take the blame for their bad behavior and inarticulate addressing of this issue. I am very sorry that their ignorance closed this thread. But I had to take a stand to ask them to stop their behavior. And that is far more important instead of going through the motions of those who continually use vitriol and abusive language to deride threads like these.

I am able to carry on these topics with full aplomb. But I would like to deal with intelligent, compelling, culturally literate and sophisticated people who actually have learned ethnic and cultural studies in their education. I need to deal with educated people. I need to deal with people with a conscience. I do not want to deal with the ignorant any more.

I need people who are strong and willing to stop the behavior of the ignorant and the culturally illiterate who want to disrupt these threads because they do not have the maturity to grasp these subjects intelligently.

If anything for the culturally illiterates who complained about this thread, it shows their ignorance, their ineptitude and their lack of sophistication when dealing with diversity and tackling critical thinking. I surely hope that one thing would happen on this board: that the more sophisitcated come out and fight against the ignorant so that their intolerance is for once and for all beaten.


I just want others to notice one thing:

I was given a warn without cursing or deriding another member. I pretty much stayed within the T and C.

However, I was given a warn because of the cultural insensitivity attributed to a group of people who are afraid of their racial identity and too proud to learn about other cultures. Well they should be happy. They played out their victimhood by "complaining" and "whining" until they got what they wanted. They even played the "race card" for it to happen.

All I can say is that my warn will be taken as a banner of courage for not capitulating to the intolerant and the ignorant.

As for the boycott? Do it. And pat the members of the cabal on the back for me. Give them love and pray for their souls. They need it.


[edit on 18-2-2007 by ceci2006]



posted on Feb, 18 2007 @ 12:16 PM
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Ceci, you were offered a very fair opportunity by Chissler to get this going, but as usual, you insisted on dropping your common tactic of blaming others for mess you were in part to blame for.

If you are unable to start a debate and take flack from others who disagree with you, please do not post any more of these kinds of topics.

CLOSED!




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