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Pakistani JF-17 Program Grounded!!

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posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 12:35 PM
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The military world has no shortage of irony. The defense industry has its moments too, as Pakistan just discovered. An aircraft whose development was driven by military sanctions from the US and Europe is now derailed by military sanctions.

The Pakistan Government had hoped to sign a deal to acquire 150 JF-17/FC-1 fighters in 2007, with 8 aircraft in service by year's end. China had reportedly even bought 100 Klimov RD-93 engines from Russia for installing on JF-17s, with an option to contract another 400 engines.

There's only one problem: Russia has just refused permission for the transfer of its RD-93 engines, derived from the RD-33 that equips the MiG-29. The decision comes only a few days after a visit to India by Russia's Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov, during which a number of joint defense projects were discussed and agreements were signed. These include the MRTA transport aircraft, and reportedly a "5th generation fighter" project, even as the MiG-29OVT/MiG-35 is touted as the likely winner of the multi-billion MRCA fighter contract.


Full Article >>

The FC-1 will fly but the JF-17 is surely in major trouble.

An indigenous Chinese replacement engine seems unlikely in the near future at least. This is clearly implied by China's act of purchasing 100 RD-93 engines from Russia. Additonally, it is obvious that Russians would not have swooped in with this move on the engine if they knew that an indigenous Chinese solution was going to be available for it.

Here is more ..


MOSCOW: Russia has blocked the sale of Chinese fighter planes with Russian engines to Pakistan.

"We've denied China the right to supply its JF-17 fighter aircraft powered by Russian RD-93 engines to third countries, asking it to sign an end-user certificate for the engines," said Colonel-General Anatoly Mazurkevich, head of the Defence Ministry's International Cooperation Department.

Speaking to Indian and Russian journalists ahead of a visit to India by Russia's Deputy Prime Minister and Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov on January 22, Col.-Gen. Mazurkevich confirmed that India and Russia are shortly to sign accords to jointly develop and produce a 5th generation fighter plane and a multi-role transport aircraft.


Full Article >>


Russian engine manufacturer Chernyshev Moscow Machine Building Enterprise has banned China from entering its RD-93-engined FC-1 attack fighter aircraft in any procurement competition where it is up against a Russian aircraft.

Russia has ruled out export of the RD-93, a development of the RD-33, to Pakistan to avoid upsetting India.

A Chernyshev spokesperson said there are explicit terms in the contract stating that the "RD-93 should not be exported to any third country" without Russian permission and the engine will not be allowed in any competition where a Russian manufacturer is bidding.

www.janes.com...

Only other equivalent engines are :

F404 - No way the US is going to sell engines for use on Chinese jets
M88 - European arms embargo stands in the way!
EJ200 - Its a Chinese jet. Europe has an arms embargo.

Even if another engine were to be found, it would most surely require substantial redesign of the rear of the airplane, and the proposition would be prohibitively expensive in terms of both of time and money.

JF-17 .... how i pity thee ..


[edit on 3/2/07 by Stealth Spy]




posted on Feb, 4 2007 @ 08:24 PM
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I had already brought this up in the FC-1 thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It seems your Janes article is a little outdated though.. 2005

And the other two sources are linked(defenceindustry daily and the hindu)..
Same source I quoted..
I was looking for more confirmations on the same but nothing..

One wonders..
Do the Russians make statements on every major sate visit, however contradictory they may be!!



posted on Feb, 4 2007 @ 08:36 PM
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Now here's a decent source of confirmation since its Pakistani newpaper itself!



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 04:29 AM
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I think people have jumped to conclusions, the comments where made by a Russian Colonel-General about the FC-1 and the 5th generation among other things. Note that the articles posted have cross referenced to each other and have quoted the same comments from the same person


Russia Denies Blocking Supplies Of Chinese Jets To Pakistan

BANGALORE, Jan 23 (Bernama) -- Russian Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov has denied speculations that Russia blocked supplies of Chinese jet fighters to Pakistan, its news agency Itar-Tass reported Tuesday.

"Russia blocks nothing - this is our policy," he said on Tuesday in reply to an Indian journalist's question. "In military-technical cooperation with any state we always adhere to one very simple principle, it's even not our obligation, but international law - an end user certificate," he said.

Ivanov, who is also the Defence Minsiter said Russia sells arms only if such a certificate is available and controls how it is complied with.

In general, political considerations and not only economic ones often matter in military-technical cooperation, he said.

Source



On another note, a new turbofan engine has just been recently released and fits the "FC-1 size"



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 06:16 AM
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Maybe..
But after a Pakistani newspaper printed the same, one can put a little more weightage to that decision.
Again note that Ivanov said that Russia does not "block" the sale of engines but abides by "international law" with such deals and the EULA agreements therein. Just like software EULAs the customer has to abide by.
No indication here about Ivanov(and Russia) "allowing" the sale of engines to Pakistan or explicitly denying it either.

Again note he summarised by saying "political and not only economical considerations govern military-cooperation".
This statement can only be to Pakistan's disadvantage(India's advantage) and nothing else. Russia would have not allowed the transfer to Pakistan purely because of politcal reasons and conversely would have allowed them only for economic reasons.
The stance is very clear IMO.. that is until they(Russia) make their next state visit to China and do head on heels!

Lets wait and watch!



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 11:50 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite
I think people have jumped to conclusions, the comments where made by a Russian Colonel-General about the FC-1 and the 5th generation among other things.


So, do you expect us to take your word about RD-93 engines and discard/ignore statements from a high ranking Russian official - when the topic of relavence is a Russian engine ?


and what about the 5th generation project with India do you find associated with "jumping to conclusions" ??


On another note, a new turbofan engine has just been recently released and fits the "FC-1 size"


and the Russians with all their complexes and agencies would less of idea about such developments than you do ?


...and yet they would so foolishly take positions that would deprive them of the proceeds from the sale of atleast 200 more engines?


... and despite this indigenous solution, the chinese decide to buy sooo many Russian engines?


Engine design is no joke....and these things are harder to be implemented in the copy/reverse engineer schemes that China is world renown for.



posted on Feb, 7 2007 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by Stealth Spy
So, do you expect us to take your word about RD-93 engines and discard/ignore statements from a high ranking Russian official - when the topic of relavence is a Russian engine ?


Which were subsequently DENIED by the Deputy Prime Minister... Thats when such nonsense is DISCARDED




..and yet they would so foolishly take positions that would deprive them of the proceeds from the sale of atleast 200 more engines?
... and despite this indigenous solution, the chinese decide to buy sooo many Russian engines?


The Russian or Russian's?

So many engines?. Which engine are you refering to, China does not import massive quantities of foriegn engines because its domestic industry can produce a design of their own, unlike India


the copy/reverse engineer schemes that China is world renown for.


Maybe in one of your fantasies that i disproved countless times



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by chinawhite


Which were subsequently DENIED by the Deputy Prime Minister... Thats when such nonsense is DISCARDED



Well he never 'denied' them, he just re-phrased the whole thing in a very diplomatic context. Giving political considerations more weightage over economical ones esp in this case is a sure shot indication that the decision is in India's favour and not Pakistan's.
For now that is..
If the MRCA deal for 126 fighters doesn't go the Russian way then I expect this to turn head on heels again!



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