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Hmmm?? NSA helped Microsoft make Vista secure ???

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posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Thanks for the tip
. I am really interested in getting a mac, however I was sort of raised on microsoft. I noticed that Mac uses a wireless adapter called "airport". If it uses the IEEE 802.11g standard, I think it should be compatible with my router. Do you know if you can use a linksys router with a mac or do you need the mac version?


Yeah it does actually, Airport and airport extreme are very versatile. Im actually using a Linksys router on my Macbook Pro as we speak




posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 02:07 AM
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Originally posted by sky1

Originally posted by TheBandit795


I already don't like Vista that much, now I find this accusation.



Vista......just a heavy version of XP. Now I'm wondering what else they put in it (besides the graphics, lol) to make it so damn heavy. It runs slow on quad cores...so anyone with less than that will definitely be forced to upgrade if they want to use this crap.



before you start saying stuff like that get you info correct. Vista has a new kurnel, new gui and has basicaly been written from the ground up. Its also contains many many more new features under the hood to haelp make it more relyable and easy to use. Its not just a cosmetic update.

Its much more then a 'heavy version of XP'

[edit on 3-2-2007 by funky monk]



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by funky monk

Originally posted by sky1

Originally posted by TheBandit795


I already don't like Vista that much, now I find this accusation.



Vista......just a heavy version of XP. Now I'm wondering what else they put in it (besides the graphics, lol) to make it so damn heavy. It runs slow on quad cores...so anyone with less than that will definitely be forced to upgrade if they want to use this crap.



before you start saying stuff like that get you info correct. Vista has a new kurnel, new gui and has basicaly been written from the ground up. Its also contains many many more new features under the hood to haelp make it more relyable and easy to use. Its not just a cosmetic update.

Its much more then a 'heavy version of XP'

[edit on 3-2-2007 by funky monk]


You might want to read all of the posts before responding...check the first page of posts and read my last one. It has a UNIX Kernel, a MAC (Linux) GUI, and it has NOT 'basically been written from the ground up'. Anyone who knows anything about making an OS knows this. It is NOT more reliable and it's the SAME as XP....just a little prettier and a lot heavier.

What branch of IT do you specialize in? What program languages do you code in?

Anyway, the point of the thread is not to tell me that I have no idea what I'm talking about, (We've been running Vista for almost a year because we write software that must be compatible). The thread topic is the NSA working on the OS.

[edit on 3-2-2007 by sky1]



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by grover
Xphiles Phan.... I just got a new/refurbished 17 in. 1.83 duo core intel chip iMac with 1 gig RAM and a 160 gig harddrive plus superdrive off of the apple website for $900 and if you go to ebay you can get them cheaper (the seller on ebay I found out after the fact is actually an official reseller for apple) so they aren't so expensive especially when you consider they are built like the proverbial brick s...house, they control all aspects of their manufacture, they don't skimp on quality and all that stuff you pay extra for from DELL and the like come standard on a mac.


Thanks for the tip
. I am really interested in getting a mac, however I was sort of raised on microsoft. I noticed that Mac uses a wireless adapter called "airport". If it uses the IEEE 802.11g standard, I think it should be compatible with my router. Do you know if you can use a linksys router with a mac or do you need the mac version?

also, do you know anything about those mac minis? are they any good? I feel stupid asking questions like this when I have a degree in computer information systems, but they simply dont teach anything about macs and I have never used one as a personal computer.

PisTonZOR, how are you running Mac OS on a PC? I have never heard this and didnt even think it was possible. I figured the internals were quite abit different.

Also, I have read that the reason there are fewer viruses for Mac, besides the fact there arent as many users, is that they store their OS code in a PROM chip so it doesnt allow you to make modifications to the OS directly, well besides upgrades.

Anyway, thanks for the info guys.




As I understand it OS X had to be changed to run on intel chips so it can run on a PC but nowhere near as well as it does on a mac....but windozzze does run well on a Mac... I have played around on a few running it and it does work surprisingly well.... considering it is still windozzzzzze


I don't know anything about airport since i don't have one.... as for the mini macs the upper priced ones are a pretty good deal... several students in the graphics program I was in bought one until they could afford a mac...

my dream mac would be one of the pro mac towers loaded to the max... 16 gigs ram and four 500 gig optical hard drives, two superdrive cd/dvd player/burners awesome graphics cards etc.... but at $14.000 +or- I will stay with my iMac.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 07:24 AM
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Not quite true,

yes os was changed to run on intel chips, but that was for MAC hardware, all new macs run intel chips.

The versions kicking about that run on standard pc's are not designed for this, and so have some problems with certain device drivers (ie monitors). These are not apple endorsed products and carry no support, but its a nice bit of hacking.

I have one windoze system left, and as soon as i can get the hardware it contains to run on a mac or do the same thing on a mac based system then its out the door.

I tried the vista betas, and it felt like a poor mans osx. Programming wise, give me the xcode development suite any-day. The end results have a shorter development cycle, do more and work better.


[edit on 3-2-2007 by 2ciewan]



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 07:37 AM
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I am no geek I just know what I have read about it so I could very well could be wrong...wouldn't be the first time nor will it be the last either.


Anyway when I saw the features listed on vista the first thing that went through me pointy little head was great windozzzzzzze users are finally getting what we Mac users have had for years now.... but still a chincier product. In my opinion windozzzzzzzzzze is the budwiser of operating systems... they aren't the king of beers because they are any good, they are the dominate operating system because they flood the market with it.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 10:16 AM
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The U.S. agency best known for eavesdropping on telephone calls had a hand in the development of Microsoft's Vista operating system, Microsoft confirmed Tuesday.


This reminds me of a Dan Brown book Digital Fortress. In this novel the NSA was leaking the information that they could crack encryption, while they were secretly promoting a new encryption method that not even they could break. Of course they were inserting a back door in this new method.

You can bet that if the NSA was involved that there's a key under the door-mat for them to get into Vista and snoop around. Sounds really suspicious.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 11:29 AM
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Originally posted by Revelmonk
tbh, I don't think I will ever upgrade to vista the bad far outweighs the good and this piece of info has clinched it for me. What exactly would stop the NSA from using a top-secret algorithm or backdoor to obtain personal data from our computers.

I think I am actually going to join the linux revolution.
I highly doubt that they would install a backdoor, but then again I highly doubt they touched any of Microsoft's source code, but more on that latter in this post.

Anyway, if they install a backdoor for themselves, they install a backdoor for everyone. Anyone with the time and patience to find such a backdoor would. It's just plain bad security, and it would leave the door open (pun intended) for bringing down all of the world's computers (network infrastructure is a lot like an ecology--monocultures, like the one Windows has gained, leave the environment in a highly precarious state).

Besides, as I hinted, I'm fairly certain that the NSA hasn't touched any of Microsoft's code. What they usually do with corporations like Microsoft is give them advice on securing their software. They don't usually write it. It would be just too much of a legal hassle for them to do so because they would have to sign various NDA agreements because ultimately that code doesn't belong to them.

One of the few exceptions to that rule is Security-Enhanced Linux (SELinux) because Linux has no particular corporation behind it, and the only legalities they have to worry about are the open source licenses (particularly the GPL) of the tools they modify (particularly the kernel). SELinux isn't even a distribution. It's only a set of suggested patches that others can use to harden their own Linux distributions--if they decide to actually apply them. I haven't tried our SELinux simply because I'm rather satisfied with the default POSIX (i.e. UNIX-style) security environment (I don't really have anything super critical to protect, with some exceptions, but those exceptions are locked very tightly behind GPG or securely wiped off my hard drive). Besides, the SELinux modifications are dauntingly complex, and I just haven't had the time or patience to sit down and figure it all out. Someday, maybe, I'll sit down and learn about it, but for now, I'll revel in my lazy ignorance.

Here's the point about SELinux, though. Lots people around the world are working on SELinux. Some of the most important contributors live outside the US, and have no connection to any government or their agencies, much less the NSA, except for SELinux (e.g. Russell Coker from Australia is one of the major contributors these days). In fact, they don't even seem to touch the code much these days, but rather coordinate the work of all their external contributors (I check up on the SELinux mailing list from time to time, and most of it is composed of emails from people outside the NSA). Some of the concepts (no source code, or very little of it because of the GPL) are actually being ported to other open source operating systems (e.g. TrustedBSD comes to mind).

All that said, knowing Microsoft, they've likely given half-assed attempts at implementing the security guidelines given to them by the NSA



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 11:32 AM
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Uh, military spin off anyone? Have a cellphone? You have a piece of "technology" the NSA and others helped develop.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 12:02 PM
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there is the case a few years back when it came out that intel was putting a backdoor for security reasons in their pentium 3 chips.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 02:03 PM
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The NSA, as they say in the article, had already posted some ways of securing computers running Windows NT, 2000 and XP, but this is the first time they were consulted while the OS was being made.

I have used some of their guidelines to secure the servers on the company where I work.


Originally posted by sky1
Vista will run fast if you're just looking at the desktop, I guess......but don't game on it or try to run more than 2 programs


We put it on a quad core and ran Doom 3.....stutter, stutter, STOP...GAME OVER.

Funny, I have been running Vista since August on an Athlon 1900+ with 512MB RAM and a GeForce II MX400 and I usually have Internet Explorer, Opera, Word and Photoshop opened.

Also, my favourite game, Unreal Tournament 2004, is faster on Vista than on XP.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by sky1
What branch of IT do you specialize in? What program languages do you code in?


Being a professional programmer and being an operating systems expert are not mutually exclusive



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by dbates
You can bet that if the NSA was involved that there's a key under the door-mat for them to get into Vista and snoop around. Sounds really suspicious.


I had expected this comment on the first page.

I am worried about an intelligence agency being involved in the development of a commercial product used by the majority of the computer users today.

I have ordered a Dell because I had too, and they do not offer XP anymore for their low-end laptops, just Vista Basic, which , basically, tears holes in the carpet IMHO.

offtopic
My essential tools are: Office suite (OpenOffice?) and Photoshop, Putty (SSH), Dreamweaver, Frontpage (?), Outlook Express.

Can I switch to an Alternative like Linux without buying another damned XP license? How about OSX running on an Intel dual core?

If I must use Vista it will probably drive me insane because I have a 2-year quarantine rule for new major releases.
/offtopic



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 03:10 PM
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posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 03:19 PM
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Too bad I can not issue a warning to you, UM_Gazz.

Not only your post was off-topic but it was a 0 line post.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 03:24 PM
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UM_Gazz, this brought tears to my eyes..........

Best laugh I´ve had this year, thanks so much....



Armap, put a sock in it, I´m still laughing
lol:

*snicker*

Ok *cough* Now now, you should not post *pfft* these off topic *harg* thinks anymore UM_Gazz. Shame on youhoeoeharg ha ha ha


[edit on 3-2-2007 by Truth4hire]



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 03:29 PM
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Originally posted by ArMaP
Too bad I can not issue a warning to you, UM_Gazz.

Not only your post was off-topic but it was a 0 line post.


Perhaps off topic a bit, but it is related to the product being discussed, and really it required no comment from me, as I share the thoughts of the person in the video. I tried and failed to upgrade to vista as well... Newer computer, and it even says on the machine "Windows Vista Capable"


As for the humor aspect, Lighten up a bit will ya? try not to take everything in life so seriously.

I am sorry if my post offended you or anyone.


Gazz



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 03:30 PM
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it says on the net that nsa worked with apple too, on there mac os. so why are people not understanding they are in everything nowadays.

apple and microsoft probably both use these types of companies quite a lot.

if you were nsa or cia, would you not want someone in apple or microsoft.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 03:37 PM
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for those who don't want to hate-monger
firingsquad.com...

and as for the NSA helping secure Vista, is anyone really suprised?



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 04:33 PM
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Originally posted by UM_Gazz
Perhaps off topic a bit, but it is related to the product being discussed, and really it required no comment from me, as I share the thoughts of the person in the video. I tried and failed to upgrade to vista as well... Newer computer, and it even says on the machine "Windows Vista Capable"


A "Windows Vista Capable" PC means only that it meets or exceeds the minimum requirements, it does not mean that the hardware was tested to work with Windows Vista, that would be a "Designed for Windows Vista" or something like that, but I don't know if that logo exists.


As for the humor aspect, Lighten up a bit will ya? try not to take everything in life so seriously.

Sometimes is not easy to lighten up, specially when your life is going wrong.

Seeing a guy (that I do not even know if really tried to install Vista or not, he may even have been paid to do this) destroying something that costs enough to feed me and family for some days just to show his idea of "funny" was what really pissed me off.

That, and the fact that you, as a moderator, should be an example to other posters of how to behave, in this case keeping on topic about the "NSA helped Microsoft make Vista secure" and posting only a video link without any comment.

Most new members are not aware that they may be punished by posting "one-line posts".



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