EU Smoking Ban

"I like smoke better than air... if I could, i'd smoke in my sleep. I'd smoke even after it killllllls me!"-Russian mafia in xXx

Smoking is a choice-- second hand smoke is a lie. But third hand smoke, oh boy... now THAT will get you!

Originally posted by Baphomet79
if you wanna kill yourself in the privacy of your own home or your outside porch, be my guest!

Pretty soon, you won't even be able to do that. I heard a story (don't know if it's true or not) that a lady that lived in an apartment building was court ordered to not be able to smoke in her apartment because of the man upstairs complained about it. As far as outside porch. What about your neighbors?

I think the only solution would be for the tobacco companies to stop making cigarrettes alltogether. That way, it couldn't even be on the black market.

But, we are going down a very slippery slope with all this smoking regulation. What's next? I want to start an effort to ban women's perfume.

www.herc.org...

Did you know that perfume is made of toxic chemicals that can injure your health? Many of the chemicals in perfume are the same chemicals in cigarette smoke, and yet there is no regulation of the fragrance industry.

Source: www.ourlittleplace.com...

Same chemicals as cigarrette smoke? Could this be the cause of some cancers that are attributed to smoking? Perfume usage has increased, cancer has increased, smoking has decreased....hmmm....I wonder what is REALLY the cause of these cancers?

Asthma rates have soared since the 1970s. It is important to look at changes that have taken place during this time period that might contribute to the rising rates. In the past three decades fragrance has gone from "special occasion" to use of multiple scented products on a daily basis. According to fragrance industry demographics Blacks and Hispanics are more frequent users of fragrance than other segments of the population.34, 35 They are also more likely to suffer from the effects of asthma. While these things are not proof of the impact fragrance has had on asthma, they certainly support the need for further and more extensive examination of respiratory effects of fragrance.

Source: www.fpinva.org...

Funny how asthma rates have soared since the 70's yet smoking has decreased since the 70's.

More reading:

www.lung.ca...

www.noharm.org...

In summary, I think the perfume industry has it's hand in all this banning smoking crap. To shift the blame away from them.

Hi, My name is TD, and im a smoker.

(Hi TD)

but seriously, as someone else said, if you ban it, it will arise in the streets, giving criminals money. And, you dont want that, do you?

But as for a ban happening in the US. LOL. It'll never happen. Why? Because the government is making too much money off cig taxes to ban it.

TD

Personal Freedom has never been very big in Europe. You guy are always giving away your rights.

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman
"I like smoke better than air... if I could, i'd smoke in my sleep. I'd smoke even after it killllllls me!"-Russian mafia in xXx

Smoking is a choice-- second hand smoke is a lie. But third hand smoke, oh boy... now THAT will get you!

smoking is a choice...for you, but for others, like me, they have to breathe it.

call 2nd hand smoke a lie, doesnt change the fact that I dont want to smell it or breathe it.

You have the right to smoke, but when someone does something that intrudes on someone else...not to kosher.

Again, people keep their beer at home, its not in the mall with you, or at work...might as well keep that cig there to. Again, non-smokers, may just not want to breathe it...and they may not want their kids to.

Again its about choice, and smoke invades many peoples choices.

people who do not smoke are not out against you...but this activity, again, is an intruder activity, going where others dont want it.

Its about mutal respect. chew tobacco...it may look sick, but at least Im not breathing it. (just to show that no one wants to take your nicotine away. )

or you can smoke...but hold your breath...dont let the smoke out, its yours.

What about me walking around nude...Im sure most smokers wouldnt want to see that.
There are nudist colonies for that. - see the point yet?

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 2-2-2007 by dAlen]

So, all you people who say that it's the right of people to not have to be around cigarrette smoke, do you feel the same for perfume or cologne?

I get a headache and sick when around women's perfume. So, I can relate to you about smoking. Should we ban perfume because I have a right to breath fresh air and not someone who smells like a French whore?

Originally posted by Englishman_in_Spain
There is not one single beneficial effect from smoking...

False.

False false false.

Statements like that make me want to start smoking again.

Now I'm not saying it's good for you. Hell no. Anyone who says they don't think cigarettes are a health hazard is preparing to sue R.J. Reynolds for a krillion dollars.

But no benefits? Damnnnnnn....
Kicking your feet up on the porch after a steak dinner, glass of scotch in one hand and a smoke in the other? Grrrravy.
Post coital? Double grrravy.

There are certain events that simply deserve the punctuation that only a cigarette can provide.

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by Baphomet79
if you wanna kill yourself in the privacy of your own home or your outside porch, be my guest!

Pretty soon, you won't even be able to do that. I heard a story (don't know if it's true or not) that a lady that lived in an apartment building was court ordered to not be able to smoke in her apartment because of the man upstairs complained about it. As far as outside porch. What about your neighbors?

Yeah I had not considered that, you have a good point. Just the other day I was going to work and my apartment hallway smelled like smoke, since my nose is now very keenly attuned to the smell since my body still craves it, albeit much less than those first few weeks; my initial reaction was to go and tell the front desk, then I remembered signing the lease and there was nothing on their about a smoke free building.

It is definitely a slippery slope, I am not talking about violating rights, but health wise.

Someone mentioned smoking on college campus, I remember that as horrible, this is back when I smoked much less! We actually had a law professor that was filing injunctions to have it enforced to keep smokers 50 feet or so away from university owned buildings. To the best of my knowledge it still isn't successful, as someone else said smoke travels.

Originally posted by Griff
So, all you people who say that it's the right of people to not have to be around cigarrette smoke, do you feel the same for perfume or cologne?

I get a headache and sick when around women's perfume. So, I can relate to you about smoking. Should we ban perfume because I have a right to breath fresh air and not someone who smells like a French whore?

This can be dragged out...yes there are extremes.
Point is, the smoke..actual fog I can see, goes in my face. dont want it.
Its stronger than perfume (in most normal cases.)

And yes, overuse of perfume is not permitted in some workplaces, etc.

You like to smoke... I want to be naked, so can I just go to work in the nude? lol
Again, Im using these drastic points...to make a point. Its about mutual respect.
You very well know that smoke is intrusive...but dont understand that people dont want it. (and its not the same as the average use of perfume.)

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 2-2-2007 by dAlen]

Originally posted by dAlen
(and its not the same as the average use of perfume.)

Damn right it's not. Perfume is tollerated everywhere. Once you put it on, it is stinking the air around you until you wash it off. That's alot longer than 5 minutes of smoking a cigarrette.

BTW, I'm all for non public enclosed smoking. It's when the smoke nazi's want to legislate that you can't smoke in your car, home, outside etc. that I get pissed about.

Tally. How many of you smoke nazi's out there where perfume/cologne?

Quit infringing on MY right to breath fresh air!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Griff
Damn right it's not. Perfume is tollerated everywhere. Once you put it on, it is stinking the air around you until you wash it off. That's alot longer than 5 minutes of smoking a cigarrette.

BTW, I'm all for non public enclosed smoking. It's when the smoke nazi's want to legislate that you can't smoke in your car, home, outside etc. that I get pissed about.

Tally. How many of you smoke nazi's out there where perfume/cologne?

Quit infringing on MY right to breath fresh air!!!!!!!

Griff, its about mutual respect.

With the way I hear your argument now, one could say this:
A person has the right to smoke anywhere...and a person has the right to hit that person in the face.

Do you see...where do you draw the line?

Again, the perfume, if you look at it seriously, isnt even on the same line as this issue, and I think you realize this.

In a public place, where there are children, and adults alike, who do not wish to have smoke blown in their faces...as well as the smell left behind (it is no perfume for sure, interesting that you brought that up), then smoking should be banned.

No, not from your life. Its your choice.

Again, will you take a beer into a public place with kids around.
Of course not, you would be arrested. But they dont smell your beer, they dont taste your beer...but your actions after drinking beer, can AFFECT another.

And that is what its about.

No one is against you...maybe they are, but its misdirected.

Again, its about mutual respect. Breathe it in...but keep it in...its yours.

Thats the best i can explain it...

Peace

dAlen

Originally posted by dAlen
Griff, its about mutual respect.

I agree. So, don't wear perfume around me.

With the way I hear your argument now, one could say this:
A person has the right to smoke anywhere...and a person has the right to hit that person in the face.

I guess you missed where I said that I'm for a ban in public enclosed places?

Do you see...where do you draw the line?

I say I draw the line where someone has a problem with me smoking but wears perfume that stinks worse than smoke.

Again, the perfume, if you look at it seriously, isnt even on the same line as this issue, and I think you realize this.

What you are not realizing is that it IS on the same line. Perfume is made with the same chemicals that are in cigarrette smoke. If you wear perfume, you are breathing in more chemicals than a smoker being around you. It is definately along the same line.

In a public place, where there are children, and adults alike, who do not wish to have smoke blown in their faces...as well as the smell left behind (it is no perfume for sure, interesting that you brought that up), then smoking should be banned.

Again where have I said I'm for smoking in a public enclosed place?

No, not from your life. Its your choice.

Choice really doesn't have much in the way of being addicted. We feel pity for herion addicts, why can't people feel the same for nicotene addicts? BTW, it's been shown that nicotene is harder to get off of than herion.

Again, its about mutual respect. Breathe it in...but keep it in...its yours.

Same as with perfume.

And that's the best I can explain it also.

Here's the ultimate solution... up the price of cigarettes by a hundred-fold...

Don't ban it... make it so expensive, so that people should make a choice...

either A: Smoke... or
B: Starve to death... or
C: stop smoking.

I was a smoker. After some time... I realized that all that money I wasted on cigarettes... I could've spent on something else. Something other than on expenses.

To EVERYONE, who thinks smoking is bad... it is... Carbon monoxide (CO) is bad, period. BUT nicotene is good (in really small doses), it relieves stress, calms (some) people down... Giving cigarettes to someone who needs anger management might help, in one way. at the cost of getting cancer.

But nicotene is not actually meant to be used by humans, because its an insecticide, 1 drop (more or less one gram) is enough to kill some people.

If someone want to ban cigarettes... fine. Then ban everything that makes a fire and smoke (ANY kind of smoke is CO/carbon monoxide). So BBQ are out, fireplaces must be removed, the list can go on...

I hope everyone gets my point?

ow and ban perfume as well, some perdumes stinks like urine.

You know I always have mixed feelings about issues such as these. Like in the western world were hooked on legal drugs and they do more harm and cause more deaths than illegal drugs but nobody seems to mind.

Well thats the common sense stuff out of the way. Where do I start, yes lets ban smokers, I suffer with asthma and ciggy smoke stinks next lets ban perfume wearers cause that dose the same, I dont like veggies so we ban them they always look sickly and surely must be a health risk, I dont like the colour yellow its too bright for my eyes so that will have to go, I dont like queing up that hurts my back when I stand for too long so thats got to stop. Overwieght women who show their midrif make me want to hurl and it affects my eyes so its the burka for them.

There are many more but thats enough for the goverment and their lackies to get working on.

Originally posted by Griff
And that's the best I can explain it also.

Yes, I did overlook that you were for banning smoking in enclosed places.
(I mis-read it, but I also stated that my comments were based on how I understood what you wrote.)

No I dont wear perfume.

Again, space.
Space is created for all to be who they are and believe what they will.

Such space is created for you to believe the way you do.
But if your for banning in enclosed places, then I think your in-line with what the non-smokers are asking?

My point was for those who insisted in public, enclosed places - which is not you - that even though we all have space to be who we are, when that space 'collides' with another 'space' intersting things can happen.

Which is why I said it boils down to mutual respect.

About perfume, I was a missionary once,
In in a training school I was in, there was 5 of us guys in a dorm room
Each of us were from different countries.

It happened to be in the Czech republic, and one of the guys was Czech.

Now the dude liked to play football (or soccer for Americans) and in the spring...he stunk.

you see, he never used deodorant...period.
Most American before they go to work, it would seem, uses deodorant.
(not talking perfume, etc)

Anyway...with 5 guys in a small room...it stunk...it wreaked, to be honest.

Not to hurt the dudes feelings I bought a stick of deodorant, and gave it to him.
(I thought he must have been poor)

Well he said, "thanks for the perfume"

There you have it. For some people, deodorant is "perfume".
They like the smell of their unwashed body at night time...go figure.

Should he be banned? ;-) Seriously...it comes down to mutual respect, and as I pointed out, smoking intrudes...period. BUT, you and I seem to agree on the banning in public places. So there is no issue.

My 'rant' was out there for those who thought the world revolved around them.
(Ironically that is how some people who smoke feel about non-smokers)
But again, when 'space' is not respected, collisions happen.

Which is good, growth typically comes from it, and we drop our rigid ways of thinking.

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 2-2-2007 by dAlen]

Originally posted by dAlen
Such space is created for you to believe the way you do.
But if your for banning in enclosed places, then I think your in-line with what the non-smokers are asking?

Yes, I am. I myself can't eat around someone who is smoking. It makes me sick. So, yes I can understand where anti-smokers are comming from. I just feel that the legislation is starting to go too far with banning smoking in your own car, apartment ect.

It seems we are arguing the same points just from different types of view. Funny how that happens sometimes.

I also want to add. I am a respectable smoker. If a couple with a child is headed my way and I'm smoking, I'll cross the street. I try to blow my smoke away from others...even when walking down the street. It's those out there that are not respectful that give us a bad reputation.

So in short. You're right, it comes down to mutual respect for each others rights. Take care.

xphiles,

If I saw you in a resteraunt and started waving my genitals around everywhere constantly, you wouldn't like it would you?

Originally posted by magicmushroom
You know I always have mixed feelings about issues such as these. Like in the western world were hooked on legal drugs and they do more harm and cause more deaths than illegal drugs but nobody seems to mind.

in a "smart-ass" tone: Using legal drugs makes you look mature and cool , while using illegal drugs make you look stupid...

I hardly see a difference between the 2... Drugs are bad, mkay.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by The_unraveller]

Originally posted by Griff
For people who start smoking nowadays I can agree with you. Obviously you've never been a smoker. When I started smoking it was known that they weren't very good for you but not to the extent that they have found out lately. So, for us older smokers it is more an addiction that we got suckered into than anything else. So, get off your high-and-mighty horse please. Until you yourself has confronted an addiction.

I've met former crackheads, alcoholics, and dope fiends that all still smoke. This doesn't mean that smoking is the most addictive thing on earth, although it could be, as I'm sure big tobacco put a lot of research into making just the right concoction of additives as to make smoking extremely difficult to quit.
The point is, for whatever reason, smoking is very difficult to quit, and it's also deadly, so the government should just ban it. They've banned effing trans-fats in NY, but they won't touch cigarettes.

Money talks, and human lives mean nothing, but this is ATS, we all know that already.

Originally posted by SpaceCalamari
The arguement against it usually seems to be that "you're taking away their rights"

Because you would be.

but the problem is that smoking doesnt just affect the person smoking, it is a risk to the health of everyone around them which just isnt fair.

Then maybe they should ban smoking in public.


I don't smoke, except maybe a cigar very rarely, because it's disgusting to me too, but so what? I'm never around anyone that really makes it unpleasant for me by smoking. I can't imagine why it would be so hard just to avoid the smoke. At any rate I don't think the solution is outlawing tobacco.


My philosophy in general on crap like this is "cry about it". I might have posted that except it would have been too short.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by bsbray11]