One Third Of The Holocaust:More Compelling Evidence It Never Happened, page 21
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 21 times


reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 05:34 PM by o2bwise
Perhaps some holocaust believers can watch the following Youtube produced by a Jewish man named David Cole.

www.youtube.com...

Points of tension:
How can forensics be so incompetent as to predict 4 million dead in Auschwitz, given the total has been revised downward to 1.1 million?

Should the Russians be trusted?

Why does the disinfectant chamber have far greater levels of Zyklon B use than the alleged gas chamber? How is this possible?

There are a number of discrepancies.

A first estimate of 4m killed and they do not even know what the murder weapon is.

That is astonishing in the extreme.


o2


[edit on 23-6-2009 by o2bwise]


reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 05:58 PM by neformore
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Originally posted by OhZone
Neformore, you err in stating that it takes 30 minutes to cremate a body.
At a temperature of 760° to 1150°C (1400° to 2100°F). The entire process usually takes about two hours.
And the body does not turn to ashes…there are many bone fragments that are usually ground up.
I don’t think the Germans had time or resources to do this, do you?

And what do you think they used to kill the Lice that infected those people?

Tell me why exactly do you equate disagreement with hate?

None of these witnesses have a tally on the number who died now have they?


I think you need to re-read my post again. Carefully. Then again, a bit more carefully, and then I'm sure you'll understand the working out.

I'm feeling generous, so I'll give you a clue


Hey - lets say it takes two hours to burn 360 bodies shall we? (such a happy fun subject huh? ), we'll divide that figure in half. So...thats 919,800 people.


Thank you for backing me up by quoting to me the figure I eventually used in my original post on the maths of it all.

And yes, they had those resources. They kept an entire war machine running for nearly six years, and fed their own people during that time too until their war machine started to collapse. Its funny how you conviniently seem to ignore/forget that fact

"hey, they didn't have the resources to do this, but they managed to invade Western Europe, Eastern Europe and part of the Soviet Union...."



And I don't think the Nazi's gave a damn about lice, and if you do then maybe you could explain why they didn't delouse the people they killed at Babi Yar using the cruder, less effective machine gun method of extermination? Oh thats right, you don't delouse dead bodies in a pit, do you?

As for the hate thing - I'm going to be very blunt.

I don't see anyone on here starting threads denying the death toll in the WTC, or in WW2, or Hiroshima, or Nagasaki.

I don't see posts denying the Native American holocaust, or ones denying the Bataan Death March, or ones denying the Stalinist purges in Russia, or Pol Pots Khmer Rouge killing fields in Cambodia. Yugoslavia? Never gets a mention. Sudan? Nope. Rwanda? nope.... Irish Holocaust? nope.... no one denies those.

The only genocide that gets denied is the one where jewish people (and a whole swathe of others incidentally, but no one mentions them, the focus is always on jewish people) got killed in WW2 by the Nazis.

Theres a reason for that and - frankly - its apparent no matter how hard you try and couch it in other terms.

Otherwise, there wouldn't be an issue, because there aren't issues anywhere else.

And thats the stark reality of it.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 06:34 PM by mazzroth
reply to post by maybereal11


I accuse you of being in a "Hate Group" ( a term I absolutely despise ) by attacking people who want the truth....I label this group the "Anti-Truth Seeking Hate Group".


reply posted on 23-6-2009 @ 09:20 PM by mazzroth
reply to post by Jimi2012


You know that tear jerky "tug on the heart" strings style may work on people were you come from being able to discuss Historical events rationally but personally I think for myself and testimonies don't stack up against facts and evidence in a Court of Law.


reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 01:03 AM by Ridhya
There is a difference between saying it didnt happen and saying numbers were inflated for sinister purposes, but the title of the post is "..Never Happened" so I think people are right for being mad at truth4hire... there is overwhelming evidence that countless people were tortured, and suffered, and executed.

Originally posted by euleberlin
One thing to add: I understand, free speech is very important and NOTHING should ever be censored. But this is not free speech, it´s hate speech.

Hate speech is still free speech though. If you wish to deny the poster his right to say that then I dont believe you understand free speech at all. It is an all or nothing thing, not subjected to emotional response.

Originally posted by seagull
Playing with numbers is what they do...

Take a mistake and magnify it beyond all recognition, that too is what they do.

But to say one group is able to do that but not another is just illogic, based on what you believe to be right.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
6 millions HUMANS were murdered - Jews, Catholics, mentally and physically challenged, .... Holocaust deniers make me sick.

I dont believe Catholics were because there is much evidence Hitler was Catholic, he loved Benito Mussolini, and had the Pope's consent


Originally posted by neformore
I don't see anyone on here starting threads denying the death toll in the WTC, or in WW2, or Hiroshima, or Nagasaki.

What did the Japanese gain after WWII? They lost their military, so no longer self-determination. They had very many American bases all over, with countless cases of rape and assault against them. They had harsh penalties, lost all of their prestige and sense of national pride...
I have been to Japan. Nagasaki has a cold feeling to it that is not due to the temperature. Some descendents look like living dead with sickly yellowish skin.
But Jews gained prime real estate in the Middle East where they could make their own laws and take what they want by force. Blank cheque.

Maybe the Japanese should have claimed 6 million died and then they would have been cut a better deal. Of course, no offense meant, I am being serious.


PS Falstad and Grini and such in Norway were *literally* concentration camps, not extermination camps. People were executed but that was not their intended purpose.

[edit on 24-6-2009 by Ridhya]


reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 12:34 PM by maybereal11
Originally posted by mazzroth
reply to post by maybereal11


I accuse you of being in a "Hate Group" ( a term I absolutely despise ) by attacking people who want the truth....I label this group the "Anti-Truth Seeking Hate Group".


What you are doing is not seeking truth. That has been clearly demonstrated here. What you are doing is playing with the margins of inaccuracies...

did 6 Million die? No...maybe more, maybe less...while you shout it didn't happen...that type of BS. Forensics? 70 years ago? for Millions of murders? During wartime? I will forgive some inaccuracies under that context.

What we have is countless testimonies from brave american soldiers and people who survived atrrocities you are unable to fully imagine.

As the survivors pass in the comming decade your vileness fills the void in hopes of furthering HATE filled propaganda unopposed.

As far as the debate on why some were fed etc.

These were Labor camps...these people were viewed as a resource, for labor to further the military campaign, to experiment on etc. When they became too sick or malnutritioned, too weak to be of use, they were disposed of in the cheapest way possible. Sometimes they were simply killed for amusement.

Complete disregard for humanity...and you have chosen to deny this in spite of overwhelming evidence and testimony...what does that make you?

[edit on 24-6-2009 by maybereal11]



reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 01:46 PM by maybereal11
Originally posted by mazzroth
reply to post by maybereal11


I accuse you of being in a "Hate Group" ( a term I absolutely despise ) by attacking people who want the truth....I label this group the "Anti-Truth Seeking Hate Group".


Lets try this..Hi Mazzroth.

Your motives for disbelieveing the Holocaust are founded not in any bias, but rather an interest in truth?

Okay. I respect seeking truth and to that end would like to respectfully ask a question

..Can you please explain what you meant by your previous post on your thread entitled "Its Official now USA is controlled by Jewish Money!"

Where you appear to acknowledge the Holocaust rather than deny it while at the same time inferring that the Jewish people might have deserved it for meddling?

The stark contrast of this post and your current claims of only "seeking truth" has me confused?

Originally posted by mazzroth
15 years ago I always said to myself....self why would the Germans target the Jews and do such horrendous things to them..I couldn't work out why there was so much hatred. Perhaps it wasn't just mindless stupid racial hatred but there may have been some meddling even back then..I don't know.



reply posted on 24-6-2009 @ 07:04 PM by apacheman
After wading through most of this garbage, I can only be dismayed at how some people's brains work, if that term can be applied to this.

I've noticed that virtually every obsfuscatory technique available to debating has been used. Everyone here on ATS, or should be, familiar enough with them that I don't have to, and won't, enumerate them individually.

I personally know several survivors, their testimony is rock solid as far as I am concerned, because in the course of my reading (I read lots of books, on many subjects; WWII is an era I've mined deeply and broadly), virtually every detail they've told me I've been able to corraborate through official reports, photos, eyewitness testimony, etc, in such overwhelming amounts and details from widely diverse sources as to preclude any notion whatsoever that the Holocaust didn't occur.

It occurred horrendously: any quibbles over whether it was this number or that number are morbidly idiotic. Millions were murdered: they didn't "just die".

And all those horribly different ways to kill people, while they may not have been official SOP, occurred individually here and there, accepted as sort of a "boys willl be boys" mentality.


Truth4hire, kenochi, what's your point, really?

Statements like the Holocaust was insufficient reason for the Jews to be given Israel leads me to believe that you are both basically anti-semitic, grasping at whatever straws you can to justify your racism which leaks through your writings no matter how hard to try to be "scientific".

Let's look at your premise:

The Nazis didn't gas Jews.

Ok, let's say for the sake of argument I agreed with you. Where does that leave us? They still murdered millions of people.

So what's your point?

That the Nazis were better than we give them credit for? Hardly, even if the premise were true.

If there were only three million Jews killed by the Nazis, would that make you feel better? How would that change the fact that the Nazis deliberately, with conscious thought and very considerable effort, murdered millions of other people based on their racist idealogy. What difference does how they went about it make?

What exactly is the point you're trying to make?

Sometimes I get the feeling through your writings that you're actually disappointed that they didn't complete the job.

So again, what's your point?


reply posted on 25-6-2009 @ 07:10 AM by neformore
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


reply to post by ken10


People have been using descriptive names for years. It just so happens that in this case the largest number of people killed were jews, and the name "the holocaust" has stuck.

But if we're pandering to pendantry, then take it then, that you want to see 9/11 only referred to as

"The September 11th 2001 attacks within the United States"

And have "World War 2" changed to a list including only those countries that actively took part, or exculding those that didn't?

Fair enough....so we'll name the events as follows

"The systematic extermination of innocents and prisoners of war, based on their ethnic or religious backgrounds, by the military of Germany, acting under orders from the leader of the National Socialist German Workers Party (often abbreviated to Nazi) during the event known as World War Two (but which actually took place between 51 countries known as "the allies" and 10 countries - a number which dwindled towards the end of the conflict - known as "the axis") between the years of 1939 to 1945"

OK and now we've done that, how does it make a blind bit of difference to the fact that an extremely large number of jewish people (in the millions) were exterminated?

Oh wait. It makes no difference at all. Not a bean. Nothing.




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




[edit on 25/6/09 by neformore]



reply posted on 25-6-2009 @ 07:36 AM by ken10
I'm not being "Pedantic" or anything of the sort, Merely reading what "Wiki" says about things.

Now regards to your comment of Jews being the largest number killed.........Then again looking at "WIKI" i see there were 10 million Soviet civilians killed/murdered and the same number for Chinese civilians.

If you don't agree then take it up with "Wiki"............I'm not a revisionist or a historian, Just someone who uses "Google" for answers to questions.


reply posted on 25-6-2009 @ 09:53 AM by KilgoreTrout
Originally posted by o2bwise
Perhaps some holocaust believers can watch the following Youtube produced by a Jewish man named David Cole.

www.youtube.com...


Those videos are very old and made by a boy who has since grown up.

Originally posted by o2bwise
Points of tension:
How can forensics be so incompetent as to predict 4 million dead in Auschwitz, given the total has been revised downward to 1.1 million?


Forensics were not used to arrive at the figure of 4 million, it was an estimate based upon the testimony of Rudolf Hoess the commandant of Auschwitz. The revised figure was based upon an academic archival study and has been recognised by both Auschwitz, the Jewish community and the academic world. And not one of the researchers involved in that study suffered any repercussions for their academically based revisionism.

Of the 1.1 million that are estimated to have died at Auschwitz, 750,000 are believed to have died as part of Aktion Reinhard and therefore were never 'booked' into the concentration camp system, ie not recorded or tatooed. This is why it has been very hard to establish exact figures of those that died. The rest died as part of 'normal' concentration camp operations, apart from a brief surge towards to end of the war when the SS attempted to kill off as much of the evidence of the extermination process and slave labour operations as they could. But most died by being worked to death or as human guinea pigs, Bayer could get through as many as 150 in a single drug trial. Since Bayer paid the SS 170RM per person, it was a lucrative business.

Originally posted by o2bwise
Why does the disinfectant chamber have far greater levels of Zyklon B use than the alleged gas chamber? How is this possible?


And where did you get this information? Supply your source and we can take it from there.

Robert Faurisson, a prominent Holocaust Revisionist hired Jean Claude Pressac to disprove the use of Zyklon B and gas chambers in mass exterminations. He was unable to do so and his paper of his findings is incredibly technical and incredibly detailed.

It is also free to read, in it's entirety, on line. It'll answer your questions I am sure, no one else has produced anything to rival it, or disprove it.

www.holocaust-history.org...

Originally posted by o2bwise
There are a number of discrepancies.

A first estimate of 4m killed and they do not even know what the murder weapon is.

That is astonishing in the extreme.



If you would like to outline what discrepancies you are aware of I would be more than happy to help you out with those. It is a very wide and complex field of study, which is why it tends to be glossed over and things plonked together. It can cause confusion. As I have already explained, the 4 million (it was 3.5 million actually I think) came from Hoess. He was a flake, and like many involved in the mass killing, had lost his mind somewhere along the road. He was not a reliable witness and much of his testimony is useless. A lot of it is like this, but some amazing academic work has been conducted in the last two decades. The history of that period has been completely rewritten, except no one has read it.


reply posted on 25-6-2009 @ 02:13 PM by neformore
The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Originally posted by ken10
Now regards to your comment of Jews being the largest number killed.........Then again looking at "WIKI" i see there were 10 million Soviet civilians killed/murdered and the same number for Chinese civilians.


But...

Historians (rightly or wrongly) classify those things as three seperate events. "The Holocaust" in the terms we are discussing refers to factory style slaughter of humans in death camps, whereas the civilian deaths caused by Barbarossa, and the slaughter undertaken by the Japanese during their invasion of China are seperate, although equally as reprehensible.

In terms of "the holocaust" the jews were the largest number to suffer.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

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