One Third Of The Holocaust:More Compelling Evidence It Never Happened

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posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 07:05 PM
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Truth4hire, I have been reading your material and frankly you come across as an agent provocateur. Your goal here is not so much I think to enlighten people of the human accounting errors of the holocaust as much as it is to provoke people and to increase the ranks of the neo-nazi groups to which you clearly belong.

You are not fooling anyone who can read not just your words but between the lines as it were. I suspect there are many of your type of agents here on ATS. Your object seems to be more a Cointelpro operation than any kind of frank discussion of opposing opinions.




posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 07:47 PM
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Can some of you just calm down a bit.

No one is denying that bad things happened.

No one is defending what happend.

All we are saying is that the six million figure is an inaccurate exaggeration.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 07:59 PM
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All we are saying is that the six million figure is an inaccurate exaggeration.


The thing is though, If six million weren't killed and the true number was only a portion of that, Then it must be questioned whether there was any targeting of Jews by the Nazi's ...........And therefore wouldn't that put doubt on the Holocaust ?.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 07:59 PM
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As far as I am concerned this discussion would be best if it was moved someplace where it is more appropriate like stormfront perhaps.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 10:42 PM
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No actually this thread is exactly what typifies ATS...discussion. Just because we disagree with the Official History thrown at us doesn't automatically mean we are agents or trolls.

Now back to my point which was so eloquently dismissed as a troll....If you were to undertake the task of killing 6 million people then cost would be a factor. If I were to develop a system to exterminate this number of people I certainly wouldn't bother going down the path of using expensive chemicals.

I would kit up a V8 engine or 2 and have the exhausts couple into a header that would go through a small filtration system to remove carbon particulates and a small heat exchanger so that it was cooled...then mega death on the cheap is possible.

The added benefit of this is that CO is easily dissipated through aeration and leaves minimal residue that would need to be cleaned up after every mass execution.

If I were to put a Zyklon B pellet into an enclosed place I would be doing it to remove pest's and Insects as it was developed as a Pesticide.

Comments please.



[edit on 22-6-2009 by mazzroth]



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 11:00 PM
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A survivor came to my elementary school once. Ridiculous that the holocaust is in denial of all things.

The lady was a teen at the time. Her mom and baby sibling was split from her and placed into the incineration line as the baby was "useless" and the mother couldnt emotionally function if the baby was taken, so they were both incinerated.


Those seen fit were taken to the other side of the camps for slave work and experimentation. Many did die of malnutrition though.

She was a first hand witness and a survivor so i believe what she said. She was so old now that she has probably passed on. Was about 7 years ago maybe

[edit on 22-6-2009 by Scarcer]



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 12:45 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


reply to post by mazzroth
 


You do know that the Nazi's started out killing people that way, don't you?

They had vans built specially for the purpose.

It wasn't efficient enough.

Zyklon B killed the people in half the time that Carbon Monoxide did. For those people that don't know, Zyklon B is prussic acid. It vapourises when it comes into contact with air, forming hydrogen cyanide gas, and kills within minutes in enclosed spaces.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 04:51 AM
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reply to post by neformore
 


Yes as a matter of fact I read about the use of Diesel powered engines but you are completely missing the point I was trying to make here...it was developed as an insecticide first and if you were to look at other mass genocides over the years its never been used enmasse since.

Pol Pot used Bullets, Stalin used starvation because it probably was the cheapest option. So why would Nazi Germany use a poison called Zyklon B that was a known pesticide ???? I ask you this my friend.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 05:37 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


reply to post by mazzroth
 


Simply and sadly, efficiency.

Such are the mechanics of extermination.



As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 09:04 AM
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Hi neformore,


So, do tell us all what makes your "internet sources" more reliable than survivor stories, evidence gathered by historians, confessions at the Nuremberg trials and the actual historical records of the Nazi's themselves?

This is an emotional topic and for that reason I especially try to be as reasonable as possible. It was not a cheap shot. It was airtight logic.

Survivor stories
Did you watch the one third of the holocaust video? Are you aware of urban yiddish culture? (I am not trying to be a smart-a$$ or anything.)

I do not doubt that German "middle management" in some camps treated inmates like animals and sometimes tortured and killed them. However, I do not believe Germany carried out a policy of annihilating an entire ethnicity.

Now, you mentioned numbers, which is why I cited what I did. The numbers I cited are such that it doesn't seem like 6,000,000 Jews were murdered. That was my point. So, I cited Rense. It seems its citations are reasonable. What constitutes a valid source? The NY Times? Fox? (Please.)

Another point is that the support I have for my belief there was no holocaust never was the idea that the numbers are inaccurately high. The context of my bringing up the number includes that it was used before. There was another alleged holocaust ~30 years before (this time persecuted Jews and not murdered Jews) and the same number (6,000,000) was used.

Shouldn't that raise eyebrows? Perhaps not to the extent of causing one to be skeptical of the occurrence of the Holocaust (on its own), but still, what the hell is going on? 6,000,000 victims ~1910? 6,000,000 victims in the 1940's?

Now, one point I did bring up is that the entire international community surely had the world's best forensics experts at their disposal. As to the numbers, they did one poor job if their estimates were off by > 1 million at Auschwitz. They cannot be that incompetent. It's impossible. THAT was further context of my use of numbers.

It wasn't a cheap shot.

There was no policy of exterminating all the Jews.


o2



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 09:26 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


reply to post by o2bwise
 



Originally posted by o2bwise
There was no policy of exterminating all the Jews.


You know, I've been through all this before, quite a few times.

Here. Have a look at This post and the ensuing links within it.

Might help a bit.


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.


[edit on 23/6/09 by neformore]



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 10:13 AM
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The zyklon B was NOT used for killing people. it is simply impossible. Why is it so hard for people to accept the fact that they have been lied to about it?

It just seems to be an issue that may seem plausible at first glance but simply do not stand up to critical examination. (and yes, there are tons and TONS of evidence about that!)

Gypsies, jews and others were dying and suffering and starving and used for experiments, i think nobody is denying that! It just brings us to the point that since they are outright lying to everybody about the zyklon b and the number of victims (i didn't use the word casualties this time to prevent further provocation..) then what else are they hiding...

This is an interesting clip worth watching!




posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 10:59 AM
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I am sitting here at work and so a quick reply.

I sometimes post in a certain forum devoted to employees of a corporation I used to work for. What got me to join this forum is that it was fast on the heels of my once again being branded a piece of moral scum because of my beliefs with respect to the holocaust.

Now, I think this is important, but given my beliefs, I think justice demands participation (think Tawana Brawley or the Duke lacrosse team) - again from the perspective of wearing my moccassins.

It would be really nice if more people could understand that there actually are human beings like myself who are not hateful. That would be a good start, but perhaps that is asking too much. Ernst Zundel is not a hater. Faurisson does not seem to be a hater. Neither is David Cole (OK, he recanted, but there is strong likelihood his life was threatened). By the way, his Youtube's are pretty good. (Check out the purported Auschwitz gas chamber - wow, that is so obviously absurd - and that is an example of my forensics point - they could not possibly have been that incompetent).

Anyway, one person asked what this has to do with a nwo and conspiracies. A lot, actually. Check out the protocols.


o2



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by mazzroth
 

Its exactly what they did. Mostly in occuied teritories of eastern Poland and Ukraine there was cruising specjal trucks using killing"technology" as you described. For the exact numbers of victims surely its not sure also because some sources count in also peoples of another nations.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 11:35 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by scordar
The zyklon B was NOT used for killing people. it is simply impossible. Why is it so hard for people to accept the fact that they have been lied to about it?


Absolute utter rubbish

The Chemistry of Auschwitz

Hydogen Cyanide



A hydrogen cyanide concentration of 300 mg/m3 in air will kill a human within about 10 minutes. It is estimated that hydrogen cyanide at a concentration of 3500 ppm (about 3200 mg/m3) will kill a human in about 1 minute. The toxicity is caused by the cyanide ion, which halts cellular respiration by inhibiting an enzyme in mitochondria called cytochrome c oxidase.

Hydrogen cyanide (under the brand name Zyklon B) was most infamously employed by the Nazi regime in the mid-20th century in concentration and death camps. It is also the agent used in gas chambers employed in judicial execution in some U.S. states, where it is produced by the action of sulfuric acid on potassium cyanide.




As a substance listed under Schedule 3 of the Chemical Weapons Convention as a potential weapon which has large-scale industrial uses, manufacturing plants in signatory countries which produce more than 30 tonnes per year must be declared to, and can be inspected by, the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.


Its not impossible at all. In fact Hydrogen Cyanide is so damn good at it thats its listed under the CWC.

I take it you'd be happy to sit in an airtight room full of it then, would you?





As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 11:44 AM
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Here is the sad truth.

many years have passed since the Holocuast and each year there are fewer and fewer survivors to testify to the horrors.

And as their voices go silent... Hate groups see an opportunity...less opposed with each passing year.

Holocaust survivors hope their stories outlive them
www.rockymountainnews.com...

Within a decade or so, Holocaust experts predict there will be few living witnesses to the worst genocide in modern history.

"Twenty years from now it will be a stronger movement to deny the Holocaust ever occurred," said Miriam Hoffman, whose family assumed Christian identities in Greece to avoid the death camps.

"This is what is scary about it. We are the last witnesses of the horror."

Fred Hoffman is a 78-year-old retired tailor who survived Auschwitz and other Nazi camps. Every time he hears someone question whether the Holocaust really happened, he said "it feels like you take a knife and put it in my heart."

.............................


........When Sayone and his family arrived at Auschwitz, the infamous Dr. Josef Mengele sent him to a line that had formed to the right. His family was assigned to a line at the left. Everyone in that line went to the gas chambers.

During those last moments, his father told the family to try to stay alive to serve as witnesses. That's what kept Sayone going.

"I had to keep telling myself, I got to survive and I got to tell the world what one human being can do to another."

............

At her home, she opened a photo album stuffed with documents and images.

"This one killed me," she said, pointing to paperwork given to her by a survivor in Lubbock, Texas.

The woman was a young girl when the Nazis stormed a family birthday celebration at their home in Bulgaria and took more than 100 relatives to the death camps. She was the sole survivor.

At the camp, "She saw her mother on top of a pile," Binstock said. "That one, I cried."

Then there's the quirkier details.

"Do you know there's different color lice?" she was asked by one survivor, from Lubbock, who spent five years of her childhood in Dachau.

"We used to take them off our bodies and race them by color," the woman told her.

Binstock is amazed by the fortitude of those who made it out of the camps - especially the children.

"That's one of the things that's so precious to me - how they were able to survive," she said.

"When I think of Eric Cahn (a hidden child who still lives in the Denver area) for two years being in a basement and not making a sound, not having a mommy or anyone to hold him, I think of my children and grandchildren and what it would have been like for them," she said.



[edit on 23-6-2009 by maybereal11]

[edit on 23-6-2009 by maybereal11]



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 11:47 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by o2bwise
It would be really nice if more people could understand that there actually are human beings like myself who are not hateful.


OK. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for a minute, and ask a simple question.

Which other genocides don't you believe in - and why?


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by o2bwise
 


Surely there was not policy of extermination all Jews because Rosenberg, Eichmann were of that origin...concerning Hitler it seems that acording to jewish law he was Jew too...



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by ZenOnKwalsky
reply to post by o2bwise
 


Surely there was not policy of extermination all Jews because Rosenberg, Eichmann were of that origin...concerning Hitler it seems that acording to jewish law he was Jew too...


Hypocracy and intolerance are not mutually exclusive qualities. In fact they often feed off of one another. How many conservative politicians have we seen who have made a platform of loudly condemning homosexuality end up being closeted homosexuals?



posted on Jun, 23 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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Ken, 6 million Jews were not killed. There were also others that died one way or another. Certainly the whole thing could be called a holocaust, however this is not synonymous with deaths of Jews.

Actually, if the objective was to kill 6 million or more, wouldn’t it be easier to just run them all out in the open in the winter? No housing them, no feeding them etc., just the cost of transport.

Why exactly did they feed them?
And feed them for many years at that.

As to those allegedly burned alive; Also, I find it VERY hard to believe. It takes about 2 - 2.5 hours to cremate a body. Lets say for the sake of argument that 100,000 Jews were burned alive and it only took 2 hours each time. that would be 200,000 hours, or 8333.33 days, 22.831 years. Jews weren’t being rounded up until 1940, which only leaves 5 years to do the dirty deed. They also needed to cremate the bodies of those who died of disease and other causes.

Where did the 240,000,000 kg of coke, to burn 6,000,000 bodies (40 kg per person) come from?
Where did the 30,000,000 kg of coke ash and 1,000,000 kg of bone ash disappear to?

How were the Germans able to do all this while fighting a war on two fronts?

Hitler / Germany had no access to crude oil, and staked it's survival on synthetic petroleum. . There were serious shortages of gasoline. 92% of Germany's aviation gasoline and half its total petroleum came from 25 synthetic fuel plants. At its peak in early 1944, synthetic fuel plants produced 124,000 barrels per day. This synthetic fuel is made from coke.

You see there is just too much that does not work out here.

Neformore, you err in stating that it takes 30 minutes to cremate a body.
At a temperature of 760° to 1150°C (1400° to 2100°F). The entire process usually takes about two hours.
And the body does not turn to ashes…there are many bone fragments that are usually ground up.
I don’t think the Germans had time or resources to do this, do you?

And what do you think they used to kill the Lice that infected those people?

Tell me why exactly do you equate disagreement with hate?

None of these witnesses have a tally on the number who died now have they?





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