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One Third Of The Holocaust:More Compelling Evidence It Never Happened

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posted on Feb, 6 2009 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by andre18
For arguments sake lets say it didn't happen, i've always wondered if so - what happened to the 6,000 000 jews that apparently didn't die? If they weren't killed by Nazis then what happened to them? 6 million people should be able to be found in records if these people were still alive....


Good question. Are you willing to do a lot of reading to get the answer and let go of everything you were led to believe about the extermination of the Jewish people? If so the answer is already posted on ATS, and technical research can be found in my signature.

I (like many other members challenging the Holocaust evidence on ATS) am just too discouraged to bother in dept discussion by the lack of reason, the insults and superficial replies in here as you can see from the history of these threads.

I can only show you the door, but it is you that has to enter.

The only reason I even post here (I swore to myself never again) is the fact that there is a discussion going on about "hate speech" which drew my attention. It looks to me that the ADL has finally found its way into ATS. How very interesting...




posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 09:29 AM
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Hi,

I decided to participate here for a number of reasons.

One reason is that I continue to be fascinated with the varying levels of ability of people to take red pills (traverse paradigms). It is amazing to me why it actually is that beliefs are held and the extent to which beliefs are sometimes held for reasons other than critical thinking. Moreover, it is fascinating to me how it is people often find it so hard to not believe that which is strongly held.

Another reason is that I am a bona fide "holocaust-denier." Well, since I was not there, it is more accurate to say that I assign probabilities. Let's just say I am ~99% confident the holocaust never happened.

Another reason is my personal odyssey with respect to this topic. The first time someone shared with me the idea it did not happen, I instinctively yelled at the person, "Get out of here! I don't want to talk about that!"

I browsed some of the posts and it seems to me the primary basis for belief is emotion. Logical fallacies abound. The biggest one is being challenged to prove a negative. Prove that something did not happen.

To me, one of the most compelling evidences of unsound reason is the use of the 6,000,000 figure. People bandy it about as if the data fed to them is such that they just know the number is ~6,000,000. Really?

Has anyone seen the newspaper headlines in ~1910 that refer to THAT holocaust? Admittedly, it was not deaths, it was "just" persecution, BUT, who were the victims and what was the number? It was Jews and the number of victims was - oh my! - 6,000,000.

Gee, what a coincidence. 6,000,000 then and 6,000,000 in the 1940's.

So, where does the number come from? It comes from the kabbala. Its source is occultism, pure and simple. It HAS to be 6,000,000.

That's why it is 6,000,000.

Man, think about it. How did any of you KNOW the number was 6,000,000 or thereabouts? The answer is you didn't really know. It was belief in the absence of the facts.


Take care...

o2



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by o2bwise
 


Buying in to this nonsense equals "taking the red pill" and "traversing paradigms"?

Since I reject Holocaust-Denial people have accused me of being a sheeple and "not having looked into it". I HAVE looked into it. Read entire books and websites on Holocaust-Denial. And it STILL doesnt make any sense...whatsoever.

Expecting me to believe that thousands of concentration-camp victims who have come out to tell their stories are liars is not the "paradigm shift" Im looking for.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 10:27 AM
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Buying in to this nonsense equals "taking the red pill" and "traversing paradigms"?


I do not believe it is nonsense and yes, buying into it equates to taking a red pill.

The video one third of ther holocaust does a good job of clarifying the level of witnesses to the event as it relates to the camps in Poland. Hardly thousands. Furthermore, in some cases, some of their testimony is obviously pure fantasy, to the level it is blatant lying at the worst and extreme delusion at best.

The testimony of people is important. What is also important is an accurate accounting of just who the victims were and what the murder weapon was.

The estimates of who the victims were has been revised downward by the millions and even the murder weapon is revised by holocaust-believers.

Interesting.

A crime is purportedly committed. There is an international tribunal. Top notch forensics experts are surely available. As good as they are, their estimates of the number of victims is off by millions and they don't even get the murder weapon right.

Wow. Now THAT'S plausible!


o2



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by o2bwise
 


The original link to the movie doesn't work anymore. (surprise surprise...)

Here is a link to a torrent file at piratebay, downloading it myself at the moment, sounds like a very interesting film to me.

thepiratebay.org...(k0 nsl)

My personal opinion of the subject is that the whole 'holohoax' is perhaps the most succesfull propaganda campaign ever. And it's only purpose at the time it started was to gain some symphaty for the jews and to make possible the founding of israel criminal nation.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 12:22 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by o2bwise
I browsed some of the posts and it seems to me the primary basis for belief is emotion.


For some maybe, for others not so.

Me, I sat and studied the history of the Nazi party, and the politics of Europe post WW1 and I did the research and the maths. I even talked to some of the survivors.

And my conclusion was that holocaust deniers can play with numbers all they want. Take a million off the six million figure. Take two million. That still leaves four million people slaughtered.

Drop it down another million if you want, makes no difference, it was still genocide carried out by sick murdering bastards on the grounds of racial/religious predjudices.

Using your logic, I take it you believe no one died in WW2? You weren't there, and the evidence presented by history obviously isn't enough, right?

Or is it just the jews that apparently didn't suffer? If so, I wonder why you derived that conclusion.

Playing with numbers is no justification.




As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 12:46 PM
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Sorry, i didn´t read the whole thread, only the first and the last page.

I (a german 22 yo) will never understand, why someone tries to play down the holocaust. I can imagine only two reasons:
1. The person is a fascist/nazi/antisemit or (how i call those ppl) scum.
2. The person is very confused by/angry about the bullpoo the mainstream media is broadcasting.

How can someone defend a fascist regime? No matter if it were a million deads or 6 millions, not to forget 40 million dead soldiers, the Nazi-regime imprisoned their political opposition (Jews were naturally their opposition too, if you think about the Nürnberg laws) and KILLED them, or atleast a lot of them! That´s pure fascism and genocide.

I thought this was a website against the NWO.
NWO = Fascism, right? Maybe genocide too, if you hear the rumours.
So, why the *SNIP* do the mods not delete this and similar topic(s)?
It´s terrible to see people defending one of the (if not THE) most terrible and cruel regimes ever on this planet.

One thing to add: I understand, free speech is very important and NOTHING should ever be censored. But this is not free speech, it´s hate speech.



hmm, k, sorry for the "poo".
[edit on 22-6-2009 by euleberlin]


Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 22/6/2009 by Mirthful Me]

[edit on 22-6-2009 by euleberlin]



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by neformore
 





And my conclusion was that holocaust deniers can play with numbers all they want. Take a million off the six million figure. Take two million. That still leaves four million people slaughtered.


Playing with numbers is what they do...

Take a mistake and magnify it beyond all recognition, that too is what they do.

Hatred is what drives them. Hatred of Jews. Hatred of anything that's different in their eyes...if it weren't Jews, it'd be gays. If it wasn't those groups, it'd be something or someone else...

So here's my question to those who say it didn't happen...what the Hell happened to all of those that are missing? Where are the grandparents of a very good friend?



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 01:52 PM
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Hatred is what drives them. Hatred of Jews. Hatred of anything that's different in their eyes...if it weren't Jews, it'd be gays. If it wasn't those groups, it'd be something or someone else...

How do you know this?



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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Drop it down another million if you want, makes no difference, it was still genocide carried out by sick murdering bastards on the grounds of racial/religious predjudices.

Using your logic, I take it you believe no one died in WW2? You weren't there, and the evidence presented by history obviously isn't enough, right?

Or is it just the jews that apparently didn't suffer? If so, I wonder why you derived that conclusion.

Playing with numbers is no justification.

You are employing an assertion, which is that the sum total support for my belief is "playing with the numbers."

It's a really bad assertion. It has no basis in reality, including on what I have written here so far.

For that reason, I am logically forced to conclude that your ability to reason clearly is compromised.


o2



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 03:22 PM
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So here's my question to those who say it didn't happen...what the Hell happened to all of those that are missing?


www.rense.com...
1. In 1939, there were officially nearly 15,700,000 Jews in the world.(1) After the Second World War, that number had risen to over 18,000,000 Jews.(2) What this means is that of the 15,700,000 original Jews on the planet, 6,000,000 were allegedly gassed, leaving only some 9,000,000-plus Jews on Earth. However, the world Jewish population somehow rebounded - and doubled - to over 18,000,000 in less than nine years-an astronomical feat.

2. From the beginning, there was always the 'SIX MILLION' of which 4,000,000 were allegedly gassed at Auschwitz. Then, in 1990, it was discovered that only 1.5 million were supposedly gassed at Auschwitz, a difference of 2.5 million less. Yet, the sacred Six Million figure remained untouched and unchallenged, even though no instant replacement for the 2.5 million was ever found.

3. During this time frame, the Director of the Auschwitz State Museum, Dr. Franciszek Piper, announced that the so-called gas chamber there had been fabricated by the Soviets AFTER the war (as a propaganda device to keep the world focused on the evils of Nazi Germany while the Bolshevik communists continued to consume as much of Europe as they could). Dr. Piper's statement is on videotape.

4. But there's more. The International Red Cross, formally and officially reported that less than 300,000 internees of all nationalities in the German camps died of all causes, including old age.(3) And of these, barely more than half were Jews. Most of these died in several severe typhoid epidemics caused by wartime conditions, which claimed many lives throughout Germany - including those of doctors, nurses and camp administrative personnel.

5. Even these deaths were too much for the German authorities. On December 8, 1942, Heinrich Himmler, chief commandant of all detention facilities, issued an order stating categorically: "The death rate in the camps must be reduced at all costs."

6. In all of German-occupied Europe there were 2.4 million Jews. After the war, 3.8 million Jews claimed "survivor" benefits from the German government.

Notes

1- The American Jewish Committee cites a figure of 15,688,259.

2- The Jewish-owned New York Times for Feb. 22, 1948, uses a figure of 18,700,000.

3- When the Red Cross interviewed thousands of freed camp inmates at the end of the war, asking whether they had witnessed alleged "gassings," the response was universally negative. According to IRC document #9925, June, 1946: "The detainees themselves have not spoken of them."



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 03:31 PM
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6 millions HUMANS were murdered - Jews, Catholics, mentally and physically challenged, .... Holocaust deniers make me sick.


The evidence is there ... deal with it.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by Nygdan
 


Actually since we're saying that the numbers matter Nygdan, then we need to use the full numbers. Six million Jews.. .and roughly six million homosexuals, POW's, gypsies, communists, and petty criminals all died as well.

Twelve million people.

And what a lot of people don't realize is that it wasn't just Aushwitz, Treblinka, and Dachau. There were concentration camps all over Europe. From Gurs in Vichy France near the Spanish border, to Bredtveit in Norway, and Salonika in eastern Greeze. There were concentration camps all over the damn place where people were crammed together, enslaved, abused, and killed.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 05:56 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.



Originally posted by o2bwise
For that reason, I am logically forced to conclude that your ability to reason clearly is compromised.


Oh! A cheap shot. I'm wounded. Really I am. You cheeky little imp you


There you are, making that claim...and then you link to a Rense article by "internet sources"

So, do tell us all what makes your "internet sources" more reliable than survivor stories, evidence gathered by historians, confessions at the Nuremberg trials and the actual historical records of the Nazi's themselves?


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 06:00 PM
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I have an uncle that was in aushwitz and as he told all of us yes it happened.

BUT the numbers are extremely exaggerated.

So yes it occured, just not on the scale that it has been portrayed.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 06:03 PM
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reply to post by whitewave
 


Wow this actually made me cry, such a sad story and hopefully he is in peace now.

And to think that there are some morons out there who try to piss on everything these people suffered through it's disgusting.
I think it has to do with sheer ignorance and blindness that people can't comprehend things of this nature if it doesn't effect them directly, typically the types of people who don't see much outside of their pseudo sense of self.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by Truth4hire
 


In high school, we had the fortune to meet two Holocaust survivors, one from Auschwitz and one from Buchenwald. I wonder if they made up all the stories about their families being sent to the gas chambers, or how in one case, one of the survivors i met made up the story about being forced to administer the Zyklon B in the gas chambers. I'm pretty sure they bs-ed it all...
it's a great shame that people really honestly think that the Holocaust is greatly exaggerated



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 06:38 PM
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it happened, it's just the numbers are exaggerated. And that's directly from a survivor.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 06:52 PM
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Without taking sides, I want to post this survivors tale....




The two Kapos that beat me daily, using a heavy wooden baton they called ‘Herr Doktor’ (The Doctor) were both fellow Prisoners, both were Jewish, one from Hungary and the other was, I believe, a Ukrainian. I was often witness when they dragged other hapless prisoners from their cells onto the ‘Appelplatz’ and beat them to death with ‘The Doctor’. So whenever I meet a ‘ Camp survivor’ now, I look him deeply in the eyes to see what sort of a ‘survivor’ they are....whether they were really a Prisoner just like me, or whether they were one of the many ‘Privileged’ ones who survived the war being more inhumane to other Prisoners than the Germans ever were.



Source


I feel its important to have balance so that people can see all facts before they make up their minds.



posted on Jun, 22 2009 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by Daedalus24
 


Zyklon-B was used at Auschwitz, as an insecticide. To kill people enmasse in an enclosed area why not use a cheap gaseous solution like the exhaust from a car pumped into the chamber ? its quiet, cheap and very very effective as the victims would just fall asleep then die.

So the use of a pesticide says scientifically what ??? they were trying to kill insects/pests ? or that they were using an expensive system to exterminate Humans effectively ?



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