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Why is British Culture Collapsing, and Should We Be Supporting John Reid?

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posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 12:58 PM
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On Friday I was at work and noticed a patch of Scum on the canteen table. There really wasn’t any other papers to read, so I picked it up and had a look.
Turns out that the Sun “Newspaper” has launched a campaign to find John Reid’s brain (they’re talking about the Home Office crisis of course).
I wouldn’t mind launching a campaign to find theirs, but unlike them I would know exactly where to look: The propaganda departments of any first class dictatorship.
Of course such a campaign would be dangerous, and could easily get you arrested under the kinds of anti terrorist legislation Rupert Murdoch so often supports.

But why is the Sun turning against John Reid?
Could it be because their audience has on the whole quite a tribal mentality? That therefore whoever is the “chief” of an organisation is automatically responsible for all the problems the Gods may impose upon it? If so this is very similar to some of the cultures that existed (pre-Romanisation) in and about where London is today; the people of a tribe would often execute a leader if their crops failed.
Just as well we don’t have a Minister of Food in charge of a food crises isn’t it?

I'm no instinctive fan of Labour or John Reid (as a former defence minister), but what has he done wrong other than walk into a job that had been controlled by his predecessor Charles Clark?

Frightening…
I’ve been looking into this and it turns out Labour has built 20,000 extra prison places since coming to power. I.e. we had 60,000 before 1997.
This is really frightening because it makes you wonder what British society would be like today if these places had never been built. Our society and our culture are collapsing for sure, I’ve seen it in my own area, and judging by the voices of others it’s happening in theirs. But without these extra places I'm sure it would be almost gone.

I did sociology at college and easily obtained good marks, but even I can’t make sense of the deterioration of the respect culture, the massive growth of the Sub class (Chavs) or maybe its just their culture?
Either way there is a horrible (mostly gang-group backed) way of treating people, which is increasingly appealing to much of our youth, and even many of the adults; where it simply wasn’t appealing to these people so much before.

John Reid…
John Reid is the only Home Office Minister to have effectively recommended the “destruction” of his own department in the interests of the public good (i.e. splitting it up into several different fractions which would be controlled by different individuals).

And within weeks of coming into the Home Office he ordered the construction of 8,000 extra prison places. Trouble is that because it takes time to build buildings, and because Mr “big ears” Charles Clark hadn’t ordered the construction of anything before him, we are still waiting for the prison service to be able to serve us (properly).

There’s an additional aspect as well. Even though this 10% rise is indisputably needed (even if prisons are places of reform before punishment, you’ll need them to be have the prison places-capacity to reform their inmates properly). Yet Gordon Brown has still been stingy in coming up with the money needed.
Why’s this: Could it be that the British people are so stingy that they can’t bare 4-5 billion pounds (about 1% of total tax revenue) to be spent on protecting their families and themselves from the yob-mobs?
Could it be that we are all so concerned about the NHS providing expensive drugs, and for the poor having enough benefits to survive at a time when the U.K economy “only” has several hundred thousand job vacancies; that we would be outraged to learn money had been diverted from elsewhere to protect ourselves and our families from criminals?
Or maybe the people in the gangs make up the bulk of the U.K population, and know they can protect themselves at a much lower cost than the government can ever hope to aspire to?

Or is it: A Political Conspiracy… (at the expense of public safety)

I suggest the prisons crisis a classic case of power politics…
The Home Office is (for obvious reasons) by far the most difficult government department for a minister to be in charge of. There are just so many places where “stuff happens” and things can go wrong (i.e. it gets exposed).
Charles Clark was long not one of Blair’s greatest fans (at least ordering to his own words after his dismissal), and “funnily enough” his appointment to the Home Office first seems to have overwhelmed him, and then granted him a political death sentence (I think Labours only against the death sentence when it’s literally applied to common criminals; their own members seems to be another matter).
Also “funnily enough” it was stingy Brown who was (according to many press reports) stingy in coming up with the needed prisons cash even under Clarke.

Then Mr Reid steps in. Mr Reid is of course a potential challenger to Gordon Browns leadership of the Labour Party. Although he isn’t the most charismatic speaker; in my opinion he is a bit better than poor old Brown, whose speaking skills tend to range from low tones, to very low and just plain deep.
Of course there’s more to politics than just speaking skills: Mr Reid has shown himself to be an excellent organiser as his management of the Defence department shows. And when we had the terrorist airport crises, his media management of the whole thing gave him flying colours in the press. Indeed the media said so.

So even though everyone’s been told that Brown will be corrugated as the new political leader; and that any opposition will purely be symbolic (like many things in the British constitution) maybe John Reid is not only a potential challenger but also a potential winner to Brown? Thanks to analysis I would give him a 50, 50 (until that is the prisons crisis came up).
So why did it come up?
Even now there is much media talk that Brown’s treasury will not provide enough of the cash needed for the extra 8,000 prison places. And although this is almost certain to change (because thanks to the political pressure of the prisons crisis Brown can no longer get away (for much longer) with not providing the cash without it looking very bad on him); it does say a lot about what’s Browns course of action would have been until there is a prisons crisis, and until its ferocity was so bad that he (himself) could not, not provide cash without politically contaminating himself with it, and possibly even politically shooting himself in the head.

In the last Budget there was no increase for the Home Office outside of security (i.e. anti terrorist measures). John Reid was in charge then, John Reid had just ordered the construction of the extra prison places. And for about a day it made Brown look bad; because the press did moan about the absence of prisons cash. But it’s not made him look anything like as bad as the tribal Chieftain fury now directed against John Reid is (seen in the Sun, but also all others papers).

If Blair goes tomorrow, and John Reid tries for leadership the day afterwards it really will amount to little more than symbolic opposition to Gordon Browns coming rise to power. Unless…

What I think John Reid Should Do…

1. Announce his intention to Resign on prime time TV. But he should do this without telling Blair, otherwise like Charles Clark (but for different reasons) he may be denied the dignity of resignation, and instead sacked.
He must use this prime time TV interview to blame his resignation not on Tony Blair, or the Labour Party, but instead more or less solely on Gordon Brown for denying him (and predecessor) the funds (that are in fact) at the root of the Home Offices problems. He must also use the interview-speech to truly savage Gordon Brown; because it will be his single best chance to damage Gordon Browns election chances as Prime Minister. At the same it will also be his best chance to un-tarnish his own name as Home Office Minister. He not be alone, because probably quite natural that Charles Clark will support him.

Unless: The problem with this first option is that it will damage John Reid’s chances of prominence in any government that is formed by Gordon Brown. Likewise it could also do the same to Charles Clark.
However in spite of the first option it might not make difference (in the end) as if John Reid continues to slandered by the press he might not have much prominence in a Gordon Brown PM’s government anyway. Furthermore if John Reid is a good minister (which he is) and if some of Browns friends betray-let him down (as happens as leader in time in politics) then a calculating Brown might be a fool not to give John Reid some prominence in a government of his (eventually).

2. Even so Reid’s second option is to remain Home Office Minister so that he can have a better future role in a Brown government (in exchange for sacrificing his serious national leader chances). And it will be at the cost of having his own name tarnished, even though he might sort out the Home Office (providing Blair-Brown doesn’t feel suddenly forced to sack John Reid due to some random serious Home Office scandal).
I would say we should support John Reid because he is building prison places, is looking into earth shattering reform of the Home Office, and is a effective minister trying to serve the public good.

What do you think ATS?

[edit on 090705 by Liberal1984]




posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 06:54 AM
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The lack of a social welfare system (the erosion of the current one) has created many problems, and the NHS is being deliberately targeted for degradation, to make the arguement easier to just privatise it (which is wrong.)

The education system not receiving enough funding to fully implement a system of advancement.

The War On Iraq, the sense the UK is nothing but a lapdog to America, with no independence and nobody standing up the corruption of this Blairite totalitarian government that treats the British citizens with contempt, that had an opposition that was xenophobic and is now headed by Blair's clone, the sense that Brown succeeding Blair is undemocratic, the knowledge that people of the calibre of Blair and Jade Goody is representing the UK internationally (urgh), that where once people respected people who conquered Everest, but instead now have that admiration and respect for empty, narcisstic celebrities, and imitate them, becoming shallow and empty and rude. The rampant crime which can see a group of lads kick people to death and walk away laughing, walking through city centres at night and sidestepping fights as the police often don't bother to turn up.....this all this, is making a lot of people depressed and not proud to be British, an identity which has become questioned itself when people ask, are we British or English....etc etc.

Everyone on the political spectrum bar blairites naturally, hate Blair, and everybody including Blairites hate Bush.

Orwellian laws....a Prime Minister and government accountable for war crimes....the cash for peerages scandal....headlines which tell of people disgruntled with UK-US foreign policy pushed enough to blow themselves up, the constant 'bogeyman' stories....looking what is happening in Iraq, and knowing our government was involved in making it like that, going along with the NeoCons....

No change in politics, New Labour (Tories) or.....Tories!

Depressing....disheartening....everybody feels it....frustration....dissaffection.....

No police.....except to watch and fine you for speeding, or arrest you under anti terror laws for wearing an anti blair t-shirt while elderly women are mugged....and alot of those muggers seem to get away, some to feed their drug habit, a problem that could be solved with a better social welfare system.

People in hospitals fearing for their lives.....MRSA.....and some (not all) nurses and doctors who are so depressed by the NHS degradation they are in a stupor, and start to just not care because the odds against them making a difference become insurmountable.


The rudeness in this country.....everybody telling each other to f*** off.


People say this country, this world, has gone down the toilet.

I think we are in the toilet, and cant see for the sides of the toilet bowels that we already are....and we are getting flushed away.




[edit on 2-2-2007 by Regensturm]

[edit on 2-2-2007 by Regensturm]



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 07:19 AM
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Not sure what hell Holes you people live in but I've never had it so good. I found it easy to get a good job, My partner and I have never been the victims of crime, The NHS performed a £30,000 operation on my girlfriend for free and she was only on a waiting list for a few months, my parents were able to retire early with a pension large enough to support a good life style and build a new house in Spain, Crime in my area is down, Schools are full and succeeding including two new "special needs" schools, My house has tripled in value in three years, I'm on an area average of 30 days payed holiday a year not including national and bank holidays, I live amoungst a huge diversity of ethnicity between whome there is never any visible trouble...

Personaly I'm starting to wonder if I really want to move to Sri Lanka in the next few years ( allways been a dream of mine ) Britains looking after me fine at the moment.



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 08:45 AM
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Originally posted by Spuggy
Not sure what hell Holes you people live in but I've never had it so good. I found it easy to get a good job, My partner and I have never been the victims of crime, The NHS performed a £30,000 operation on my girlfriend for free and she was only on a waiting list for a few months, my parents were able to retire early with a pension large enough to support a good life style and build a new house in Spain, Crime in my area is down, Schools are full and succeeding including two new "special needs" schools, My house has tripled in value in three years, I'm on an area average of 30 days payed holiday a year not including national and bank holidays, I live amoungst a huge diversity of ethnicity between whome there is never any visible trouble...

Personaly I'm starting to wonder if I really want to move to Sri Lanka in the next few years ( allways been a dream of mine ) Britains looking after me fine at the moment.



Well, I'm so glad you've had it lucky, and your parents were loaded enough to build a new home in Spain, and you live in a nice area.

Somebody has to be lucky.

Perhaps you should look around you next time you travel out of your neighbourhood, note life is not the same for everybody else, and consider yourself lucky.

It's not about hellholes, it's about this country, indeed the world, and the evergrowing rich-poor divide.

Some people land on their feet and cope alright.

Others don't land on their feet, and they barely cope, if at all.



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 08:59 AM
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Well, I travell extensively around England, and I've travelled extensively globally and compared to most of the other "affluent" European countries, England is a haven of prosperity and peace. You'll find far more violence, poverty, crime and general unpleasantness in france, Spain, Portugal... Germanys pretty peachy but we've got it a hell of a lot better.
Thats ignoring the less well off country's, compare England to Africa, India, Russia, China, Iraq, now they have it rough, hell compare it to america if you want to see an example of a violent country thats lost its way or a prison system stuffed to capacity bthat can no longer cope with the number of criminals.

In this country 99% of the population can still manage a basic level of living. Even if you're jobless and homeless there are still ways you can pull yourself up. The number of people who actually die on our streets, ( saddening that anyone does of course ) is tiny compared to most other countries.

I'm not the only "lucky" one. We're all lucky... Hell, you are able to bitch about the state of the country on a £500 computer... I'd say you're doing better than many people in this world



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by Spuggy
Well, I travell extensively around England, and I've travelled extensively globally and compared to most of the other "affluent" European countries, England is a haven of prosperity and peace.


In some areas yes, in alot of areas? No.



Originally posted by Spuggy
You'll find far more violence, poverty, crime and general unpleasantness in france, Spain, Portugal... Germanys pretty peachy but we've got it a hell of a lot better.


Depends what areas you go to.


Originally posted by Spuggy
Thats ignoring the less well off country's, compare England to Africa, India, Russia, China, Iraq, now they have it rough, hell compare it to america if you want to see an example of a violent country thats lost its way or a prison system stuffed to capacity bthat can no longer cope with the number of criminals.


I would say we are beginning to catch up with America nicely.


Originally posted by Spuggy
In this country 99% of the population can still manage a basic level of living. Even if you're jobless and homeless there are still ways you can pull yourself up. The number of people who actually die on our streets, ( saddening that anyone does of course ) is tiny compared to most other countries.


Depends what countries you compare that to, but for a supposed 'western developed' country, alot of people do die on our streets.



Originally posted by Spuggy
I'm not the only "lucky" one. We're all lucky... Hell, you are able to bitch about the state of the country on a £500 computer... I'd say you're doing better than many people in this world


I did not say I was not lucky. But the difference between me and you, I can see the state of this country in general and you seem to think it's lovely and smells of roses.

Ask yourself - Why can't everybody afford a £500 computer?



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 10:34 AM
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Because £500 is a lot of money.
I don't think everything is a bed of roses, I think that its been so good for so long people have forgotten how good it really is.

We currently live in a country where not only will the government pay you if you are not employed, it will actively help you get a job which garantees you a minimum wage. Sure it may not be a great job, but thats your choice.

It's hard to get a council house, but its still possible, its not easy getting a hospital bed but you can still get one and if its an emergency you can still get one fast.

I hear people complaining about life being rough because they can't afford to buy a car, or a TV, or a pair of trainers. Go somewhere where 80% of the population can't afford a bowl of rice, it sort of puts it in perspective.

I'm not saying everythings great, I am saying take a look at what you do have, it's pretty damn good.



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 10:37 AM
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"I can see the state of this country in general"

I beg to differ, I think you can see where it is going wrong, a privalidge granted to the vast majority of us because so much is going right.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 05:33 AM
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Originally posted by Spuggy
Because £500 is a lot of money.


Yes it is.


Originally posted by Spuggy
I don't think everything is a bed of roses, I think that its been so good for so long people have forgotten how good it really is.


It's not that good.


Originally posted by Spuggy
We currently live in a country where not only will the government pay you if you are not employed, it will actively help you get a job which garantees you a minimum wage. Sure it may not be a great job, but thats your choice.


No, and it is often is not a great job, when you someone does manage to get a job, which is not always possible because there are other people who are unemployed too as the manufacturing industrty starts to go to India, or China.


Originally posted by Spuggy
It's hard to get a council house, but its still possible, its not easy getting a hospital bed but you can still get one and if its an emergency you can still get one fast.


It's still possible, but not automatic. You can get a hospital bed, but you have to wait. If it's an emergency, pray you don't get MRSA or another virus, or the doctors and nurses have not been so overworked that they make mistakes or don't have the resources they need.


Originally posted by Spuggy
I hear people complaining about life being rough because they can't afford to buy a car, or a TV, or a pair of trainers. Go somewhere where 80% of the population can't afford a bowl of rice, it sort of puts it in perspective.


I'm agreement there, but I'm talking about the people who rarely complain, those who live in this country below or just above the poverty line who struggle to get a square meal a day.

Is that acceptable? Have they 'never had it so good'?


Originally posted by Spuggy
I'm not saying everythings great, I am saying take a look at what you do have, it's pretty damn good.



I'm taking a look at what the ignored in our society have, and it's not good.

[edit on 3-2-2007 by Regensturm]



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 05:36 AM
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Originally posted by Spuggy
"I can see the state of this country in general"

I beg to differ, I think you can see where it is going wrong, a privalidge granted to the vast majority of us because so much is going right.



If so much is going right, why am I seeing so much that is going wrong?

If I can see where it is going wrong, then it's not going all that right.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 12:11 PM
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I don't agree with the basic premise.

I don't agree that "British culture is collapsing" at all.

British culture is a dynamic and evolving thing, some folks find that change worrying or scary.

[edit on 3-2-2007 by sminkeypinkey]



posted on Feb, 4 2007 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I don't agree with the basic premise.

I don't agree that "British culture is collapsing" at all.

British culture is a dynamic and evolving thing, some folks find that change worrying or scary.



I don't think British culture is collapsing, it evolves, it expands, and that can only be exciting, but frightening for those who don't like change.

Society on the other hand, is collapsing, as in neighbours barely know each other first names anymore.



posted on Feb, 4 2007 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by Regensturm
Society on the other hand, is collapsing, as in neighbours barely know each other first names anymore.


- Well we each have our own experiences of this, mine obviously differ.

I think this is really more of a reflection of how things can be in a very big town or city.

It's certainly not like that where any of my family live (either in non-metropolitan England or Northern Ireland).
They all know their neighbours even if they're not always in and out of each others houses as tales of the 'old days' would have us believe we once were.

I know all my own neighbours by name and reasonably well
(by 'well' I mean being invited into each other's homes fairly regularly, having keys to their house look after pets if they go on holiday etc etc not just nodding a hello in the street).

When I lived in London it was sort of true of a few places I lived and there is no doubt that you could be anonymous if you wanted to be.

But I found it only 'sort of', cos I knew several of my neighbours, shop-keepers, the guy at the railway station etc etc there, some very well
(again meaning being invited into their home & they mine).



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by sminkeypinkey


I think this is really more of a reflection of how things can be in a very big town or city.


Possibly. Perhaps villages and small towns are the last bastions of community.

My parents knew all their neighbour's names (They are Londoners) and that was in London....it's not the same now though, I think something has gone.....friendliness perhaps....there is untrust or basic lack of time to even nod a hello in big cities now.


Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
It's certainly not like that where any of my family live (either in non-metropolitan England or Northern Ireland).
They all know their neighbours even if they're not always in and out of each others houses as tales of the 'old days' would have us believe we once were.


Neighbourly relations are always good, although I'm not keen on neighbours who spy and curtain twitch and who want to know everything about your personal life


Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
I know all my own neighbours by name and reasonably well
(by 'well' I mean being invited into each other's homes fairly regularly, having keys to their house look after pets if they go on holiday etc etc not just nodding a hello in the street).


I have similar a neigbourly theme with one side of neighbours, but not really the other side.


Originally posted by sminkeypinkeyWhen I lived in London it was sort of true of a few places I lived and there is no doubt that you could be anonymous if you wanted to be.


I think you could be anonymous in somewhere like London now to the extent someone could die and not be noticed missing until the neighbours notice a nasty smell, if at all for months.

In cities, there used to be more neighbourly behaviour.



Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
But I found it only 'sort of', cos I knew several of my neighbours, shop-keepers, the guy at the railway station etc etc there, some very well
(again meaning being invited into their home & they mine).



In the smaller village I used to live in it was like that more.



posted on Feb, 8 2007 @ 09:28 PM
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John Reid is the dogs compared to the rest of them. I even liked Steven Byers for trying to do some thing good over the Railtrack scam.

Either way John Reid is better than that gimp Gordon Brown.



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 02:24 AM
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Violent crime and anti social behaviour certainly seem to have got much worse where I live and in the surrounding areas too within the past ten years. There just seems to be a proportion of the population, who are completely devoid of any sense of decency, resort to aggression, intimidation and bullying to get there own way or even just for fun. It's frghtening this emerging feral mentality and the fact that the police seem unable to deal with it and the judiciary and politicians don't seem to really care other than to tell us we're all over reacting to a fear of crime.

Forget about British culture, it's our hamanity that's at risk. I think this is far more worrying than any terror threat, with far worse long term consequences.



posted on Feb, 9 2007 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by ubermunche
Violent crime and anti social behaviour certainly seem to have got much worse where I live and in the surrounding areas too within the past ten years. There just seems to be a proportion of the population, who are completely devoid of any sense of decency, resort to aggression, intimidation and bullying to get there own way or even just for fun. It's frghtening this emerging feral mentality and the fact that the police seem unable to deal with it and the judiciary and politicians don't seem to really care other than to tell us we're all over reacting to a fear of crime.

Forget about British culture, it's our hamanity that's at risk. I think this is far more worrying than any terror threat, with far worse long term consequences.


Devoid of any decency, aggressive, intimidatory I totally agree with the above can I also add petty and resentful. Its depressing some times i don't even recognise them as my own people if you get what I mean, I feel like a foreigner in my own country.

.



posted on Feb, 10 2007 @ 06:39 PM
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Is anyone actually aloud to say what they feel about this. Yet another vioent attack tonight in my area involving scummy little chavs who, on their own would amount to nothing but with twelve of their didl-o mates backing them up swagger and smirk and are too thick to realise noone buys into their hardman image.

Bring on the vigilantes, it gets to a point when the police and govt really dont care about protecting people so people have to protect themselves.



posted on Feb, 10 2007 @ 10:34 PM
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Spuggy
What, ethnic minorities PLUS low crime? Wow!!!
(Tell me if I'm wrong) but doesn’t that description rule out just about everywhere where there are large numbers of ethnic minorities: Nottingham, Bradford, Southampton Centre ect?
And then there’s those two new special needs schools you mentioned; whilst nationwide the government has shut something like 124 down.

All I can say is that I'm not surprised the average house price in your area has tripled whilst in most others (nationwide) it’s more like doubled. If our area gets any worse a downsizing might not be so bad.

So where about’s (roughly) are you? And is it the future or the past? For example…

You say you’ve travelled a lot and that England is quite nice; well Scotland has the second highest murder rate in Europe…
1. www.eofhr.org...
2. news.bbc.co.uk...
3. en.wikipedia.org...

And in a EU survey Britain came bottom in just about all possible indicators be family time, or what we would do if we saw someone vandalising a bus station.

More recently EU condemns us as "a high crime nation" with the highest rate of burglary in Europe:
Here is the European Crime and Safety Survey
www.crimereduction.gov.uk...

Crime hotspots are the UK, Ireland, the Netherlands and Denmark


UK– one of the EU’s most protected countries (security alarms), with common crime way above the average


Now I'm not saying it makes a mockery of your travels experiences; just that you’ve been visiting some pretty horrible areas abroad if you think they make the U.K look good. You can go to nasty of Paris just as you can have my misfortune of visiting Newham in London.

But to "balance things out" here’s a factual right up about where we are in relation to Europe
www.yorkshiretoday.co.uk...

Spuggy I'm pleased you found the perfect area to live; I would just love to know more about it so I can see if what you say is true.

Sminkey You can say you don’t agree our culture is collapsing; trouble is it is as far as the way you get treated on the street. Now maybe you’re referring to art with words like dynamic and stuff? In which case I don’t really give a stuff.
But I tend to think of culture as “beliefs and ways of doings things”. In England that often means zero no beliefs, and no defined ways of doing things, other than: doing nothing, keeping your head low, or fighting with your fists (if-when its you). I suppose it might not be collapsing because is it has already collapsed?

That said I would agree England is ok or good in many areas; accept in those areas that involve our safety from yob mobs (in which case it’s pretty stagnant at best).

FACTS...
Anyway here’s some figures direct from government…
1. 1 in 3 British students get attacked every year
www.homeoffice.gov.uk...
2. 58% of small businesses fall victim to crime? www.creativematch.co.uk...
3. One five 10-15 crime victumes; 51% don’t tell police: news.bbc.co.uk...
4. Interesting crime graph look how small a percentage of the population criminals
constitute: www.statistics.gov.uk...
Yet so many victims? Chavs!!!

Is it almost a wonder that our pathetic government doesn’t plant people on this website to deceive people into being “explained away” in accepting the situation they are in. Then again they aren’t that authoritarian are they?


[edit on 090705 by Liberal1984]



posted on Feb, 10 2007 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by Liberal1984
Our society and our culture are collapsing for sure, I’ve seen it in my own area, and judging by the voices of others it’s happening in theirs.


Reality overcomes conservative loathing.


I did sociology at college and easily obtained good marks, but even I can’t make sense of the deterioration of the respect culture


Birth of a Liberal coupled with a question that only Liberals are asking.


Or is it: A Political Conspiracy… (at the expense of public safety)


Almost the answer, it should read "Political dogma at the expense of public safety".

Your CHAVs are there to stay, remember to follow Home Office advice and jump up and down when they come in through your bedroom window at 2am.




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