Creating fake accounts to agree with oneself? Oh man...

Arguing with this clown is like flogging a schoolkid with a wet newspaper.

Personally..

I find it amusing that people can be so afraid of something they don't understand that they go to such astounding lengths to deface it, slander it, simply amazing.

You know.. I will assume your a Christian.. I am a Catholic, also a 2nd degree Free Mason (I know I know, not a Master Mason so I don't know the plans to take over the world yet. Poor ignorant me. I just wanted to do it the traditional way, which happens to be the slow way rather then a 1 day generic class) Christians have, through fear and ignorance, murdered millions. The Spanish Inquisition any one? How many poor women where tortured to death at the stake because of some ignorant clergy man? How many crusades? How many Jews killed? How many Gypsies killed? Christianity's hands are covered in blood. There’s tons of proof.. show me proof that Masonry resulted in the death of innocent people like the Church and I will literally eat my shoe.

Ignorance is the second most dangerous thing in the world.

The most dangerous is an ignorant man who can't fellow ignorant men to collaborate in a unified goal, which usually has to do with killing are subjugating your values on others.

I almost........... almost.. feel sorry for someone like VCR.. well.. maybe not.

[edit on 2/4/2007 by Rockpuck]

Originally posted by Viva Christo Rey
Context - The 13th President of the United States of America was discussing Freemasonry.

Everything is out of contex
Good thread.

i think masonrys hands arent drenched in blood because theyre a secret organization, christianity welcomes people into its religion. unlike keeping everything shrouded in mystery making every contestant take a huge risk. like giving you life over? lol.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
i think masonrys hands arent drenched in blood because theyre a secret organization, christianity welcomes people into its religion. unlike keeping everything shrouded in mystery making every contestant take a huge risk. like giving you life over? lol.

uhm...



topsecretombomb,

Your post (like your user name) is quite a masterpiece. Do you mind clarifying what you're saying (punctuation and grammar notwithstanding)?

Thanks.

I think he is saying that masonry doesn't have a real reputation for having blood on its hands because its a secret organization, able to keep out of the limelight and coverup any indiscretions.

Fair enough, but if a gigantic top-secret intelligence machine like the CIA can't cover up its indiscretions over 50 years, what makes anyone think that a loose network of private individuals like Freemasonry can do it over 300 years?





[edit on 6-2-2007 by Roark]

Roark is correct. Let's not forget that Freemasons are, above all, human beings. What makes anyone think that 5 million human beings can keep a secret? When was the last time you tried to get laid?

Originally posted by BCRanger
When was the last time you tried to get laid?

I'm quite sure that's a secret. As well it should be.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb
Every person we hear of gets assassinated that unveils the evil acts of Freemasonry, people like Bill Schnoebelen haven't been assassinated because killing him would confirm everything he says as FACT. Although he may be an agent of disinformation but I highly doubt that. Look what also happened to William Cooper

So what you are saying is if they are killed that proves the Masons are evil, and if they are not killed that also proves the Masons are evil.

Kinda hard to argue with logic like that.

BTW if you respond to this post that is proof you have been brainwashed by the anti-Mason cabal, if you don't respond that is also proof of your brainwashing.

So what you are saying is if they are killed that proves the Masons are evil, and if they are not killed that also proves the Masons are evil.

No it prooves that whatever the assassinated person said holds some type of truth to it, I mean, no point in murdering a fool now is there?

BTW if you respond to this post that is proof you have been brainwashed by the anti-Mason cabal, if you don't respond that is also proof of your brainwashing.

Lololol nice try, Ill be posting in this thread until the internet runs out of network space.

Originally posted by BCRanger
Roark is correct. Let's not forget that Freemasons are, above all, human beings. What makes anyone think that 5 million human beings can keep a secret? When was the last time you tried to get laid?

WE..... are ..... human?

Or .... are we?



As far as this goes "When was the last time you tried to get laid? "

I would assume, from the posting style. Never.

To the point however, tomb, your say that religion is "good" and Masonry is "bad" because masonry "threatens your life" and "religion" does not.. is so far false its almost funny, but sad.

You see.... Masonry does not say .. do this.. and that.. donate this, say that, confess this and obey your Pope, ect. OR BURN IN HELL> ahhhhh so Christianity DOES threaten your life .. always over looked.. they actually threaten your spiritual being. Masonry does no such thing, and I think the concept of "hell" is much worse, used to control ignorant poeple.

As for everything else, what I could understand any ways... I thought it was..

Originally posted by Rockpuck


You know.. I will assume your a Christian.. I am a Catholic, also a 2nd degree Free Mason (I know I know, not a Master Mason so I don't know the plans to take over the world yet. Poor ignorant me. I just wanted to do it the traditional way, which happens to be the slow way rather then a 1 day generic class) Christians have, through fear and ignorance, murdered millions. The Spanish Inquisition any one? How many poor women where tortured to death at the stake because of some ignorant clergy man? How many crusades? How many Jews killed? How many Gypsies killed? Christianity's hands are covered in blood. There’s tons of proof.. show me proof that Masonry resulted in the death of innocent people like the Church and I will literally eat my shoe.

Ignorance is the second most dangerous thing in the world.

The most dangerous is an ignorant man who can't fellow ignorant men to collaborate in a unified goal, which usually has to do with killing are subjugating your values on others.

I almost........... almost.. feel sorry for someone like VCR.. well.. maybe not.

[edit on 2/4/2007 by Rockpuck]

Rock,

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but as your comrade in faith, I'd like to state that the deaths attributed to the Inquisition are most likely grossly overstated. And for the Crusades, well, ahem, they would not have been necessary if the invading Muslim hordes hadn't conquered the area (which was previously Christian).

How many died at the hands of the Puritans? How many Anabaptists were slaughtered by Lutherans? How many were enslaved by Protestant Christians? Christianity of all varieties, I believe has been on the whole a force for good, in spite of the evils committed by individuals, high and low. To condemn a religion for the action of a few isn't fair. Also to judge a religion by its past sins is probably not fair either. How many of us as adults would like to be judged by what we did in our youth?

I'd be eager to know of any faith that doesn't have blood on its hands somewhere in its history.

I haven't been privy to VCR's rants, since I invoked St. Ignora upon him. I'm further assuming by his name that he's also a Catholic, to which I'm sorry to say he is not a good representative of the faith, IMHO.

Pax vobiscum,

Zhenyghi, KHS

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
I'd be eager to know of any faith that doesn't have blood on its hands somewhere in its history.

Whoo hoo! A question I can answer that doesn't involve Freemasonry:

Buddhism.

Originally posted by Roark

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
I'd be eager to know of any faith that doesn't have blood on its hands somewhere in its history.

Whoo hoo! A question I can answer that doesn't involve Freemasonry:

Buddhism.

Oh really?...

Yeah, maybe the monks, but what about the faithful themselves?

Originally posted by Zhenyghi

Originally posted by Roark

Originally posted by Zhenyghi
I'd be eager to know of any faith that doesn't have blood on its hands somewhere in its history.

Whoo hoo! A question I can answer that doesn't involve Freemasonry:

Buddhism.

Oh really?...

Yeah, maybe the monks, but what about the faithful themselves?

Was it done in the name of their religion?

I know of no war in which Buddhism its self was the driving force.

As for your remarks on grossly inflated numbers.. no .. I stick to my history books thank you. As for invading "hoards" .. not so true.. all 3 faiths where there at the same time, Islam became dominant, then out of political gain, war was declared.

And for the remarks on it was not just Catholics, I firmly agree. It is all of Christianity.

Originally posted by Rockpuck

Was it done in the name of their religion?

I know of no war in which Buddhism its self was the driving force.

As for your remarks on grossly inflated numbers.. no .. I stick to my history books thank you. As for invading "hoards" .. not so true.. all 3 faiths where there at the same time, Islam became dominant, then out of political gain, war was declared.

And for the remarks on it was not just Catholics, I firmly agree. It is all of Christianity.

Not wanting to stray too far off topic, but...
I'll give one example, and hopefully that will suffice -- the civil war in Sri Lanka versus the "Tamil Tigers", who I believe are Hindu, and the Sinhalese Liberation Army (SLA), who I believe are Buddhist. Is the SLA fighting specifically in the name of their religion, well, maybe not, but they are fighting to either resist or otherwise drive-out and defeat the Hindus and preserve their own religion and culture.

Inflated numbers -- yes they are inflated. I've probably read the same history books as you, and don't recall reading a number about "millions", but got the impression that it was a very large number. The Inquisitors kept records of their doings, and while I'm not defending torture and cruel execution in the name of religion, historians have a tendency to exaggerate or outright misrepresent anything about Catholicism, never positive, always bad. In my youth, I was rebellious, and very, very much anti-Church, and opposed everything under the Sun about Catholicism. I can't tell you how many times I've heard professors (non-Catholic, perhaps anti-Catholic themselves) state, "Catholic believe-X", or "Catholics do (or have done) -X", only to discover in later years how things really are. I'd encourage you to check out the Apologetics manuals by Fr. Chacon, and the books by Karl Keating, and former Protestant ministers Scott Hahn, Jeff Cavins, Patrick Madrid, and Marcus Grodi.

The three religions were not in the Holy Land "at the same time" in the strictest sense. You even said yourself, "Islam became dominant..". Just as Judaism predates Christianity, so did Christianity predate Islam. Even that statement is not entirely correct. Islam wasn't just adopted by the local on their own because they heard of about Islam in neighboring Arabia and said, "Hey, we like that new religion Islam, lets convert!".

I won't go on and on (and my history books and atlas' are currently packed away), but you can check things out in Viscount John Julius Norwich's colossal 3-book work, "Byzantium", an excellent source of history of the politics, religion and other machinations from all parties during the time in question.