Arrogant Americans

What I find interesting about the US is that we have always been this aggresive toword other nations. During the first decade of our countries existance we were telling much larger and more powerful countries like spain, france, england, and portugal where they could and could not create colonies or territories in the americas (including central and south america and the carribbian.) It didn't matter if the land or territory came close to US soil we still had our say and other countries did what what we told them.

We where just taking advantage of their distance to us.

It would have been way to costly for Spain or even England to engage in a war with America.. every time they tried the financial and resource gain was to astounding. Not to mention, we could attack major trade spots and cities before they even landed. They had no choice but to comply or face war... and we where easy to go to war with.

I do not know about arrogant americans...but I certainly see a lot of arrogant ATS posters

Rockpuck said:

I see only your personal opinions relating to Chenys financial gain. And whether or not he gains money is not my business honestly.

Yeah, it is your business actually (unless you meant it was cheney's business )
Of course you know that when politicians make money through public office, that can only breed corruption.

You do know that; right?
If you don't know that, any opinion you could possibly make on this thread is moot.

Yes, MOOT!

Rockpuck to echo Toads words if you do not care about corrupt politicians then your whole thinking process on America's foreign policy is flawed. How can one state that politicians are corrupt, I dont care about it and then try to justify the actions of said politicians does that not also make you corrupt?

Name me a politician that is not corrupt.


My point exactly. Why does Cheney surprise you?

LOL ... You truly are not american ... I am guessing France ? Possibly Spain ... or maybe some Literature/Fine Arts teacher here in America ... LOL .... Funny but the truth ... AMERICAN didn't INVADE IRAQ ... You need to go back and read up ... Maybe you find yourself slow ? Or maybe you just can't read .. But I am not even going to ... Answer back to something .... so ... out of CONTEXTED ... Show me where AMERICA invaded IRAQ !?!?! Or was it ... Britain ...France, Spain, Portugal ... and so forth ... that was helping ... .. Oh but they keep thier name so clean ... GOOD JOB ... Give them the STANDING O .... They might as well be the Nigerians over in Nigeria Wearing Face masks ... So they can go back to thier normal lives ...

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
I am not Aussie.
and simply because I am disgusted at America's actions, doesnt mean I condone other methods of slaughter, but I appreciate the 10yr mentality applied there!

MUSLIM EXTREMISTS DID NOT START THIS WAR.
This is where the problem lies with you.
AMERICA INVADED IRAQ.
Do you get this, does that compute ?

Muslims did not force you to invade IRAQ For petes SAKE.

YOU CREATED THIS MESS, you have no foot to stand on when blaming everyone else for your countries collosal F'UP

Its like none of you can think for yourself anymore.

Jesus age mary.... America Invaded Iraq. Get that through your head.
You invaded on FALSE EVIDENCE and created this pandoras box which the entire region has decided to jump on.

This is an ILLEGIAL war.. your leaders deserve to be shot for this.
When are you going to wake up and see the reality instead of telling everyone, this that and the other, becuase they are not prepared to follow your BLIND PATRIOTIC ways.



[edit on 6-2-2007 by Agit8dChop]

[edit on 7-2-2007 by Deus_Brandon]

So, because you just say that all politicians are corrupt, therefore what cheney is doing is just fine by you?
He is profiting off of war, seems to me there are public figures out there who do not have interests in financial gain through war, no need to mention them.

Why is the VICE PRESIDENT profiting from taxpayers money?

Your 'Name me a politician that is not corrupt.'
falls short of a respectable excuse for they way politics in America is run, there is no hope if all people thought this way.

ATS people expect better than that lame excuse.

So, if they are all corrupt, as you say they are, would you not say there is a problem?

[edit on 7-2-2007 by Toadmund]

I think he is trying to say that all politicians are corrupt... And not just in AMERICA. Thank you for assuming that though...

Amazingly,

The vice president can make $80,000,000 profits from this war,
LIE about it, saying he has no FINANCIAL tie.. and yet people refuse to see this as the worst form of curroption.

'' all poltiicans are curropt, what makes cheney different ''

Well,

He's the most powerful Vice President in US history
He elected HIMSELF Vice President
HE Was the loudest mover for IRAQ WAR
He states he has NO FINANICAL gain
He represents YOU! AMERICA! Your meant to be the beacon of truth, honesty, liberty and all that Jazz... yet your prepared to just 'allow' him to keep making money while your soliders are being murdered?

It doesnt have to affect you, I see your already on the same 'curropt' page.

[edit on 7-2-2007 by Agit8dChop]

Show me documented proof Cheney has made exactly, or over 80 million dollars. Show me proof Cheney is still the controlling stock holder for Haliburton. Show me proof any stock market gains from Cheney is related to the war. Show me where personal income out side of salary is illegal? Show me proof and comparison that Cheney is the most powerful vice president in history. Show me proof that the war was started for personal gain. Show me well documented proof of any individual wrong doing. Show me proof of something illegal.

Unethical and illegal are two different things by the way. I am not saying they where right in going to war, but nothing done was done so illegally..

Ill be waiting for that proof.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Show me documented proof Cheney has made exactly, or over 80 million dollars. Show me proof Cheney is still the controlling stock holder for Haliburton. Show me proof any stock market gains from Cheney is related to the war. Show me where personal income out side of salary is illegal? Show me proof and comparison that Cheney is the most powerful vice president in history. Show me proof that the war was started for personal gain. Show me well documented proof of any individual wrong doing. Show me proof of something illegal.

Unethical and illegal are two different things by the way. I am not saying they where right in going to war, but nothing done was done so illegally..

Ill be waiting for that proof.

Well thats easy

Cheney's Halliburton stock options rose 3,281% last year, senator finds

rawstory.com...
I never said he was the CHEIF STOCK HOLDER, I said he is making PROFITS FROM THIS WAR.
Cheney claims this is 'ok' because

Since I left Halliburton to become George Bush's vice president, I've severed all my ties with the company, gotten rid of all my financial interest," the Vice President said. "I have no financial interest in Halliburton of any kind and haven't had, now, for over three years.” – D.Cheney

Severed all ties and no finanical interests?
So how have you made $8,000,000.00
a %3281 increase from your FINANCIAL INTEREST?

Now, this wouldnt be worthy of hanging...
but then you must consider this.

"Also, the vice president has nothing whatsoever to do with the Pentagon bidding process," the aide added.

This was the statement put out by VP Cheneys office, that he, and his members have no say what so ever in WHOM gets the government contracts.
You'd hope not, being he has interests in the primary supplier.
BUT THEN

The Pentagon has acknowledged that Vice-President Dick Cheney's chief of staff and other political appointees helped make the controversial decision on a $1.8 million contract for the postwar recovery of Iraq's oil sector.

It appears his members DID in fact have a say...
So again he is lying through his teeth.


So, lets see, cheney makes money, of the company his office chose to supply the war machine in Iraq.
Thats pretty convenient, espceially being he has made $8,000,000.00 personally, yet denies any financial ties.

What would make this even more haneous is if Cheney was the one whom pushed for war

“Nobody pushed harder than Cheney for a military strike against Saddam Hussein. Nobody was more cocksure about the presence of weapons of mass destruction, including nuclear components. Nobody was more emphatic about a secret alliance between al Qaeda and Baghdad.”

I understand, you care for your country, and would die for it. Cleraly the love you have for your land is 2nd to none.
So why on earth are you defending a man who CLEARLY has no morals/deceny such as yourself?

HE IS MAKING MONEY BY SENDING YOUR TROOPS TO WAR!


p://www.counterpunch.org/leopold10122004.html
www.guardian.co.uk...
www.commondreams.org...
www.cbsnews.com...
rawstory.com...
www.commondreams.org...

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Unethical and illegal are two different things by the way. I am not saying they where right in going to war, but nothing done was done so illegally..
Ill be waiting for that proof.

Thats a very fogging line to be defining.
But Ill play along.

The Iraq war IS ILLEGIAL because Iraq was not a threat, did not attack you , and did not threaten you.
They asked for talks, they allowed inspections yet YOUR president refused to accept the findings, and refused to talk.

What you have done is ILLEGIAL!
There was NO EVIDENCE of weapons, because there IS NO WEAPONS.

This is what I love.
You come here screaming about people talking crap, having no view BUT anti American..

yet you ask for PROOF,

the give you concrete proof, which totally goes against what YOUR Claiming.

then you simply refuse to achnowledge it, or even reply.

Pitiful.

How does it feel NOW?

knowing your government IS personally making MONEY, of this war that was supposidly about IRAQI's, and not there wallets?

Originally posted by Agit8dChop

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Unethical and illegal are two different things by the way. I am not saying they where right in going to war, but nothing done was done so illegally..
Ill be waiting for that proof.

Thats a very fogging line to be defining.
But Ill play along.

The Iraq war IS ILLEGIAL because Iraq was not a threat, did not attack you , and did not threaten you.
They asked for talks, they allowed inspections yet YOUR president refused to accept the findings, and refused to talk.

What you have done is ILLEGIAL!
There was NO EVIDENCE of weapons, because there IS NO WEAPONS.

First I am terribly sorry for not replying - I usually only reply to active threads that are on the top of "My ATS" and Thursday I had no internet access at work and last night I was on very briefly then went out with friends for a few drinks.

All that aside, Haliburton is a very corrupt business, I know well enough my cousin is a contractor for them in Florida. Haliburton has also gotten no bid deals, several multi billion dollar deals actually, including to feed the troops, transporting oil. Though, if you have seen the food our men eat today, while in camps (out side its your typical meal ready to eat) but it would make the food from Korea and WW2 look like dog food. There has been no reports of transported oil gone missing. There have been few reports of Haliburton breaking rules over there as well. Your "Proof" is a one sided biased website, which I do not consider truthful reporting unless a two sided view is presented. There should have been a committee to overlook Cheyenne's stock holdings, I am unsure of the law exactly but I believe he can hold stock? .. But not the controlling share. I am unsure though and is proving difficult to find.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Your "Proof" is a one sided biased website, which I do not consider truthful reporting unless a two sided view is presented.

Thanks for replying, respect for that.

regardless of how 'one sided' it is,

the bottom line is, he has made $80,000,000.00 off the IRAQ War.

no matter how you spin that, for a vice president that is very very suspicous.
Esepcially when he was seen as the the main pusher for war.

Your source says 8million not 80 million.

But sources do have plenty to do with how they get their information, whether they make it up entirely, or if they over exaggerate, playing the given statistics as a way to better present their side of the argument.. which is done almost 90% of the time when figures are being used. You would not present hard figures without doing so for your cause.

Just because it is posted, or that someone put it up even with the best of intents does not make it true.. look at some of the sources used on ATS all the time, like Worldnetdaily.com .. a ridiculous site with no credibility, but if I where to take it as gospel then I would surly be fooled.

Do politicians make money off of war?

Yes. Even Dems!

Do politicians make money off of passing every day laws?

Yes. Even Dems!

Politicians are a dirty bunch, the sadistic craze for power, money and the ability to boss others around and to think higher of your self is the driving force which all politicians feed and die of. If you are not of the blood which makes a good politician, which is actually a bad person, then you honestly won't get far. It should be expected in our society, in our way of life, in our reactionary thought process that people in higher positions of power would commit the worst of crimes. The war with Iraq was started to fuel the economy. Nothing more, nothing less.

We could give a DAMN about the Iraqi's. A hundred thousand could die in a day and we wouldn't (government) flinch. The worlds cruelest despot could take over.. and we would watch in joy as long as resources where opened up to us. We are there to make money, by fueling the defense sector with money.. with massive contracts for shady jobs, paying all those troops, by keeping the stock market high while the real people who cannot afford to buy them suffer..... do you honestly think the DOW represents how well we are doing? It represents how well the Government is holding on for dear life.

Without the war we have no production, we buy and buy, personal savings in the red for the first time since the Great Depression.. we have nothing to give the world to keep us at our current way of life with out this war.. We expand, fight or die pretty much.. the amount of money that this war puts back into the economy is in the hundreds of billions.. I honestly think that we could fall apart if we pulled out and cut off spending to the war.. you cannot re-adjust spending like that, paying for better education won't fuel the economy tomorrow, maybe a decade from now, but not tomorrow, health care drains it, public service can only go so far, national defense can only go so far, paying the national debt is great, but we need to produce something to make money.. to keep society moving.. and what is there to do? Make war. That is what we export.. we export it better then any other nation on Earth..

IMHO

I'm American and I couldn't agree with you more. but don't assume all Americans are blindly led by nose. More and more feel exactly like I do. Nevertheless we are still outranked by the mind controlled masses who are too lazy to think for themselves. It will take time but like the "Hundredth Monkey Syndrome", I believe our collective consciousness will come to know the truth.

It's already happening. Bush has lost the support of just about everyone except the Right Wing Conservatives. And never have I seen a bigger group of hypocrites then these war monger "Christians". Some of these groups have strayed so far from the "Golden Rule" that they're completely unchristian in practice. Yet still they hide behind the Bible, tweaking interpretation to justify their agenda.

In the meantime, just like the German people under Hitler, we will be judged for our government's sin.
I pray the world forgives us.

So Iran (Persia) is magically going to unite to kick the Western powers out of the Middle East, why? Persia is in Persia and has nothing to do with the Middle East, and Western countries have been in the region for over 100 years, why the wait?

"The terrible mess that the US has created"
Yeah right the US created all the problems in the world. In reality the US is cleaning up the mess that European Colonialst created all over the planet. Most countries today were mapped out from former European colonies. Europe creates a mess and drags us into it. From Vietnam to Iraq Europes bloodie paw prints are evrywhere that there are problems in the world.

[edit on 13-2-2007 by fiveangelsfrank]