It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The US Now Targets China!!

page: 1
0

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 11:57 PM
link   
In response to the emerging military threat from China Pentagon officials said the US strategy aims to hedge in China and be prepared for a pre-emptive strike on it, if the need arises. The Pentagon is moving strategic bombers to Guam and aircraft carriers and submarines to the Pacific as part of this strategy.



James Thomas, deputy assistant defense secretary for plans, said key elements of the "hedging" policy are aimed at nations with uncertain futures, including China and Russia.
"In [the China] part of the hedging strategy, we're looking at the deployments of bomber elements to Guam on a more routine basis," he said. "We're also looking at making adjustments in our naval posture globally, shifting to six carrier battle groups in the Pacific region, given the shift in global transport and trade, as well as over the next several years shifting approximately 60 percent of our attack submarine fleet to the Pacific."



The major components of the plan include:

1. Positioning B-2 strategic bombers at Guam, within striking range of the Chinese mainland, about 1,800 miles away.

2. Arms and ammo storage which includes long-range air-launched cruise missiles and Joint Direct Attack Munitions.

3. Shifting to six carrier battle groups in the Pacific region.

4. Shifting approximately 60 percent of the attack submarine fleet to the Pacific."

In effect, this strategy boils down to positive preparations to swiftly defeat Chinese aggression. But the moot question is, would the US or China opt for war considering the economic consequences? The total two-way trade between Mainland China and the U.S. has grown from $33 billion in 1992 to over $250 billion now. China needs the US as much as the latter needs China. So what is the real intent?

I feel it is nothing but a strategy to impose and maintain diplomatic pressure and leverage, on US terms, by upping the ante with the threat to use means other than diplomatic to pursue its vital national interests.




Washington Times




posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 07:29 AM
link   

Originally posted by mikesingh
In response to the emerging military threat from China Pentagon officials said the US strategy aims to hedge in China and be prepared for a pre-emptive strike on it, if the need arises. The Pentagon is moving strategic bombers to Guam and aircraft carriers and submarines to the Pacific as part of this strategy.


This is in my opinion an error of judgment on behalf of the US department of defense. It's a move that would be percieved as very aggressive by china and also by russia. The USA is the biggest modern superpower, but it is starting to get old, the new kid on the block is indeed china.

The move by America is one typically seen all throughout nature, groups of lions in Africa have an Alpha male, as the Alpha male gets old and battle weary, he becomes more aggressive and try's to assert himself by attacking other would be Alpha males to let them know he's still the boss!

This is a dangerous tactic for the US to make as eventually one of the other younger males bites back when attacked and if strong enough kills the Alpha male!

China at the moment is playing its foreign policy with interlectual decisions as opposed to militarily, it's building diplomatic relations with the middle east, strenthening trade all over the world and particularly in Europe. The views and opinions China brings to the table at UN meetings are being listened to! When America tries to force through new resolutions in the UN china opposes it if it feels neccessary, it even used it Veto against a US proposed resolution recently. China is flexing it's politcal muscles and is gaining worldwide support. The US policy makers need to realise they are not able to bully china, especially with military means. America needs to get it's diplomats coming up with peacful means of influencing the world...

... If they do not do this they will find themselves in another cold war situation a cold war that europe might not want anything to do with and a cold war that they probably won't win. Eventually the USA will appear ridiculous as it looses worlwide support and because even more lonely and paranoid.

I think China (and Russia to an extent) has learned important lessons from the USA' policy mistakes, they realise they will not gain "real" respect from the world by sending troops all around the world they are gaining "real" worlwide respect by showing peaceful, restpectful foreign policies.

I know that I personally would feel safer if the worlds leading superpower was one that spread it influence rationally and with diplomacy.

Be safe




posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 08:36 AM
link   
Well like any other nation in the world China and Russia have their own sovereignty to protect.

They are not Iraq or Afghanistan, I thing that the reason these measures has been taken is if Bush declares war against Iran and either of this two countries go to aid Iran it will be done by air and sea something that US is trying to prove that it has supremacy, while showing its powers spreading Its battler ships and submarines.

I think This present administration is playing a very dangerous role with in the name of our nation, it starting to look like our nation wants to fight the world.

Sorry to say I see as a very Childish attempt to show the world who is still in charge while even with the fiasco in the middle east and the one that is in the planning.

Still the childish way in which our present administration is closing its doors to diplomacy makes it worst.

I relay think that we have a lose mad man in the white House with imperialist dreams.

But that is just my opinion.



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 02:59 PM
link   
In their culture the Apperance of force is all they understand. Especially with word constantly coming out that they want Tawian back. They are our allies. Thats what you have to do when say you are going to support somebody.



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 03:03 PM
link   
There has ALWAYS been a lot of posturing with China. Back and forth. Through the years China has postured and made statements as well. There has also always been contingency war plans with China. The USA has plans for every country 'just in case'. It makes sense.

Nothing is going on with this. It's just more business as usual.



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 09:16 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jimmy1880
This is in my opinion an error of judgment on behalf of the US department of defense. It's a move that would be percieved as very aggressive by china and also by russia. The USA is the biggest modern superpower, but it is starting to get old, the new kid on the block is indeed china.
The move by America is one typically seen all throughout nature, groups of lions in Africa have an Alpha male, as the Alpha male gets old and battle weary, he becomes more aggressive and try's to assert himself by attacking other would be Alpha males to let them know he's still the boss!
This is a dangerous tactic for the US to make as eventually one of the other younger males bites back when attacked and if strong enough kills the Alpha male!... If they do not do this they will find themselves in another cold war situation a cold war that europe might not want anything to do with and a cold war that they probably won't win. Eventually the USA will appear ridiculous as it looses worlwide support and because even more lonely and paranoid.


The most recent Federal Reserve estimates suggest that the US productivity machine is humming and that US economic potential growth is likely to be about 3% for the foreseeable future. This would be not only a triumph for free-market economics but would place the US economy in a class of its own among the world's more mature economies.

Also, by 2030 Americas GDP will have reached $30 Trillion (under a sustained growth of 3%). Now in order for china to equal the US economic output in 2030, the chinese economy would have to grow at a sustained 12% TILL 2030! It isnt growing that much NOW. And doesnt look like it will ever. Also Chinas current economic growth data has been coming under fire for a few years now. Alot of it is considered to be "bogus" numbers by the provinces just to appease the elites in china. Something that is bloody dangerous.

For China to pose a real long-term economic threat to the US, China would need to match the US's sustained productivity performance, which has long been the envy of the world. Unless China truly embraces free-market economics, there is little chance of that occurring anytime soon.

And until China does so, the US should treat China as yet another, albeit large, emerging market economy that is trying to close the income gap between itself and the more prosperous industrialized world.


I know that I personally would feel safer if the worlds leading superpower was one that spread it influence rationally and with diplomacy.


Let me ask you a question. If an Asteroid were on a collision course with the Earth (never mind which country's instruments detected the asteroid), which country would be expected to take the lead in an effort to destroy or deflect the asteroid?

Heres another one. Which country do you feel has done more for humanity than the US?


Heres a good read by the futurist. Its about what it will take for china to become a superpower much like the US. It explains what china will have to do in order to be a true superpower. Something that it wont do in 2030.
futurist.typepad.com...

[edit on 092828p://3002pm by semperfoo]



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 03:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by Royal76
In their culture the Apperance of force is all they understand.


Not exactly. The Chinese are well-versed in the art of war and have been for millenia. There are all the martial arts and strategy is equally important to the Chinese. There is much, much more to their beliefs about war than simply going by appearances. That's something that's more like what the U.S. would do.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 04:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by semperfoo

The most recent Federal Reserve estimates suggest that the US productivity machine is humming and that US economic potential growth is likely to be about 3% for the foreseeable future. This would be not only a triumph for free-market economics but would place the US economy in a class of its own among the world's more mature economies.

Also, by 2030 Americas GDP will have reached $30 Trillion (under a sustained growth of 3%). Now in order for china to equal the US economic output in 2030, the chinese economy would have to grow at a sustained 12% TILL 2030! It isnt growing that much NOW. And doesnt look like it will ever. Also Chinas current economic growth data has been coming under fire for a few years now. Alot of it is considered to be "bogus" numbers by the provinces just to appease the elites in china. Something that is bloody dangerous.

For China to pose a real long-term economic threat to the US, China would need to match the US's sustained productivity performance, which has long been the envy of the world. Unless China truly embraces free-market economics, there is little chance of that occurring anytime soon.

And until China does so, the US should treat China as yet another, albeit large, emerging market economy that is trying to close the income gap between itself and the more prosperous industrialized world.


I know that I personally would feel safer if the worlds leading superpower was one that spread it influence rationally and with diplomacy.


Let me ask you a question. If an Asteroid were on a collision course with the Earth (never mind which country's instruments detected the asteroid), which country would be expected to take the lead in an effort to destroy or deflect the asteroid?

Heres another one. Which country do you feel has done more for humanity than the US?


Heres a good read by the futurist. Its about what it will take for china to become a superpower much like the US. It explains what china will have to do in order to be a true superpower. Something that it wont do in 2030.
futurist.typepad.com...

[edit on 092828p://3002pm by semperfoo]


I fail to see the corrolation between what I wrote and your arguement


It's quite irrelevent how strong or weak the economy is if that isn't the way the US is trying to spread it's influence!

The US is trying to asssert it's might by military means, China are not taking the bait and thats frustrating the US. If you haven't been keeping up with current affairs you won't have noticed the diplomatic ties the Chinese are building. The Chinese recently sent an official on a tour of Africa where they talked about deals that would bring prosperity to both parties, China want's a secure oil supply and Africa needs investment to build infrastructure, China was quite open about it's intentions throughout. Also in the Middle east they are building ties with Iran and Iraq, this is something the US is furious about!

The thing is China's worldwide influence is going strength to strength and they are managing all this through diplomatic means, it has done the good thing of learning from the mistakes made by US foreign policies.

The US needs to be very careful how it treats China, the US enjoys a time of plenty a time of cheap goods. Where do most of these cheap goods originate? China. At the moment China also needs this trade from the US but as I mentioned before they are negotiating deals worlwide. If China strengthens it's trade with the EU, Russia, Africa and the Middle East then the USA will not be as important to them.

Just as Japan woke up a sleeping bear (the US) with Pearl Harbour, the US runs the risk of waking an even bigger bear.


Let me ask you a question. If an Asteroid were on a collision course with the Earth (never mind which country's instruments detected the asteroid), which country would be expected to take the lead in an effort to destroy or deflect the asteroid?

Heres another one. Which country do you feel has done more for humanity than the US?


The Asteroid question was a joke right?


The US I think has done the most "damage" to Humanity. they have the highest greenhouse gas emissisions (Something that will kill the world), they consume the most of the worlds energy (Something that when it has run out will be the cause of all wars) and they have a forign policy thats creating death and destruction in the middle east (under the guise of spreading democricy). So why don't you tell me why you where under the impression the US has done the most for humanity. The US has done and will continue to do things that are in her own interest but under the guise of foriegn assistance.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 07:31 PM
link   

Originally posted by Jimmy1880
I fail to see the corrolation between what I wrote and your arguement


I was generalizing more then anything. Your comment about the declining alpha male was in part what I was responding to.


It's quite irrelevent how strong or weak the economy is if that isn't the way the US is trying to spread it's influence!


And do you think that if Germany was in the US position it wouldnt look better after its OWN interest? Its part of being a superpower. and if china ever gets their (i hope it does) It will take off alot of pressure that is put on the US by the outside world.

I think the below excerpt is spot on!

China will have to adapt to the underappreciated burden of superpowerdom - the huge double standards that a benign superpower must withstand in that role. America is still condemned for slavery that ended 140 years ago, even by nations that have done far worse things more recently than that. Is China prepared to apologize for Tianenmen Square, the genocide in Tibet, the 30 million who perished during the Great Leap Forward, and the suppression of news about SARS,every day for the next century? Is China remotely prepared for being blamed for inaction towards genocide in Darfur while simultaneously being condemned for non-deadly prison abuse in a time of war against opponents who follow no rules of engagement? The amount of unfairness China would have to withstand to truly achieve political parity with America might be prohibitive given China's history over the last 60 years. Furthermore, China being held to the superpower standard would simultaneously reduce the burden that the US currently bears alone, allowing the US to operate with less opposition than it experiences today.



The US is trying to asssert it's might by military means, China are not taking the bait and thats frustrating the US. The Chinese recently sent an official on a tour of Africa where they talked about deals that would bring prosperity to both parties, China want's a secure oil supply and Africa needs investment to build infrastructure, China was quite open about it's intentions throughout. Also in the Middle east they are building ties with Iran and Iraq, this is something the US is furious about!

If china truly wanted to help africa they would send troops to regions like darfur to quail the uprising that have resulted in the killings of millions of innocent ppl. why is it Americas job to see that these things get done? Right now the US is quietly sending $15 billion in aid to africa. Something that you failed to mention. US donations to Africa outstrip Europe by 15 to 1. Does that make the whole of Europe bad because they are doing considerably LESS then the US on the world stage? Do I sense possible envy here?
news.scotsman.com...

The US doesnt always do whats in the best interest for the world. (what superpower would sacrifice its own interest?) But to that I would say that we do ALOT of GOOD.


The thing is China's worldwide influence is going strength to strength and they are managing all this through diplomatic means, it has done the good thing of learning from the mistakes made by US foreign policies.


The way china does business (for now) is gaining support. But chinas suppression of its own ppl speak the truth about china. Dont be blinded by the false image china trys to portray.


The US needs to be very careful how it treats China, the US enjoys a time of plenty a time of cheap goods. Where do most of these cheap goods originate? China. At the moment China also needs this trade from the US but as I mentioned before they are negotiating deals worlwide. If China strengthens it's trade with the EU, Russia, Africa and the Middle East then the USA will not be as important to them.


Cheap crappy goods that fall apart. Most ppl I know try not to buy from china here. We dont mind paying the extra bucks to get something that will be well worth the money.

And china is only 'using' the above mentioned countrys. Dont think for a second that china wouldnt hesitate to stab those countrys in the backside if china no longer needed them.


Just as Japan woke up a sleeping bear (the US) with Pearl Harbour, the US runs the risk of waking an even bigger bear.

Well it is what it is until it isnt. Right not thats pure speculation AT BEST on your part. It has more wishful thinking then truth in it.



The Asteroid question was a joke right?


Nope, not a joke. And you never answered my question.


The US I think has done the most "damage" to Humanity. they have the highest greenhouse gas emissisions (Something that will kill the world),


The US is anticipated by 2009 (a decade earlier then some predictions) to be 'surpassed' in that field by who? By your....lovable, kissable, huggable china that you speak so fondly of!



they consume the most of the worlds energy (Something that when it has run out will be the cause of all wars)


Right now the US is thinking about that very thing.
I suggest you look up whats known as the space elevator!
Something that the US is the main driving force in seeing this thing come to reality.


and they have a forign policy thats creating death and destruction in the middle east (under the guise of spreading democricy).


Or is that your conspiracy theory? September the 11th 2001 was just another day wasnt it. Those towl heads never flew two planes into two building icons of the world that resulted in the death of thousands of ppl. We shouldnt be in afghanistan should we?

Iraq however, was a bad plan.


So why don't you tell me why you where under the impression the US has done the most for humanity.


Well is what we have here is a differing in opinions and views. Your only looking at the negative aspects of america, while I look at the positives that have helped humanity to live longer and constantly make breakthroughs in technology that no one else seems to be doing.


The US has done and will continue to do things that are in her own interest but under the guise of foriegn assistance.

As any hyperpower would. You dont have to like it. I probably wouldnt if I was on the outside looking in. Now that doesnt mean I agree with everything my country does. But if it wasnt america it would be someone else like russia possibly japan or dare I say Germany?

[edit on 072828p://4402pm by semperfoo]



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 07:46 PM
link   
Semperfoo,
that articles makes it seem like China CANNOT be the world super power until it
-- apologies for all the things listed.

but i dont think thats the case..

Your super power becuase of your POWER, of your stranglehold over certain world concepts that means you can ultiamtely ( in economic phrase ) determin demand and supply.

America became super power becuase of the BOMB, downfall of Russia and the economic ability.

Well, the bombs pretty avaliable now a days.
China's quickly becoming a military might,
and the economy of America is faltering, especially being countries are dropping the dollar, where as china's economy is growing...



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 09:26 PM
link   

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Semperfoo,
that articles makes it seem like China CANNOT be the world super power until it
-- apologies for all the things listed.


You didnt read the whole article. The was an excerpt from the article I posted earlier on in a previous post. the excerpt was about what a superpower must endure, all the ridicule, being under the worlds proverbial microscope, not being able to take a sh*t without the rest of the world complaining about the smell. That sorta thing. Its a very well written, thought out article as well. It doesnt say china wont be a powerful nation. It just says china has a long ways to go before they can claim to be in the same class as the US.

Heres the article once again.....
futurist.typepad.com...
In the article it goes onto say that china will undoubtedly surpass the EU and Japan. But not the US, atleast not before 2030, and probably not before the technology singularity which as the article states, would make the point moot.

About the technological singularity...
en.wikipedia.org...

So its more like Asia's Calling, Europe's Falling....


Your super power becuase of your POWER, of your stranglehold over certain world concepts that means you can ultiamtely ( in economic phrase ) determin demand and supply.


I guess its just a matter of opinion..


America became super power becuase of the BOMB, downfall of Russia and the economic ability.
Well, the bombs pretty avaliable now a days.
China's quickly becoming a military might,
and the economy of America is faltering, especially being countries are dropping the dollar, where as china's economy is growing...


Now here is where your way off.

This is what I wrote earlier on....

The most recent Federal Reserve estimates suggest that the US productivity machine is humming and that US economic potential growth is likely to be about 3% for the foreseeable future. This would be not only a triumph for free-market economics but would place the US economy in a class of its own among the world's more mature economies.


So ya see? Americas economy is growing at 3% and it looks like it will grow at that pace for the forseeable future. To my knowledge, the dollar is actually starting to stabilizing right now. Remember we are in two different war fronts right now. Thats usually a pretty good indicator as to why the dollar has devalued (debts, etc). America has a choice though that will make americas economy grow tripple the size it currently is. Its called "fair tax" And by switching to it, would make it more profitable to do business in the US when compared to places like china and india. In the first proposed year of the fair tax, americas economy is be expected to grow 10.5%! and by 2015 americas economy would double its current size.

China is a undeveloped nation that relies to heavily on exports. Its a nation of cheap labor. And as I have said earlier, chinas economic growth stats have been comeing under scrutiny for the past several years. As I said before, the provinces of china are just reporting what the elites of china want to hear. And it seems to be working. I find a bit odd how the provinces grew faster then china as a whole actually grew, dont you? with the average 'suggested' growth in chinas provinces being about 13%. Thats a bit odd isnt it? It just goes to show how corrupt china truly is. I think your overestimating china, as are alot of ppl on this board. undeveloped nations that can provide cheap labor in abundance do tend to grow rather fast. Look at india for example. the fairtax will actually combat that as previously stated by me, it would make it more profitable to do business in the states then the above mentioned nations.

So I have to disagree entirely with you.

[edit on 092828p://2602pm by semperfoo]

[edit on 092828p://3502pm by semperfoo]

[edit on 092828p://4702pm by semperfoo]



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 11:55 PM
link   
Ok, Semper, your exposition undoubtedly was interesting with some fairly cogent arguments. Gotta hand it to you.

Having said that, there are a number of points that don’t gel. Just because America is a so-called super power, doesn’t give it the moral right to aggressively interfere in other countries affairs.

It’s not only China. In pursuit of its "long war" on terrorism and alleged terrorism, the US military is expanding into Africa's "arc of instability" - and striking secret pacts with regional powers like South Africa.

Under the George W Bush regime’s “War on Terror” doctrine, the US has designated a swathe of territory that curves across the globe from Colombia and Venezuela in South America, through Africa’s Maghreb, Sahara and Sahel regions into the Middle East and Central Asia as the “arc of instability” where both real and supposed terrorists may find refuge and training.

Terrorism!! The latest whipping boy and justification for American imperialism. As I said in another thread of mine, America is afflicted with a disease called AMWDS (Acute Megalomania and World Domination Syndrome). Whether this state is curable or not, only time will tell.
So what are American intentions to expand its area of influence? Looking at the list of countries below gives a fairly good idea where we’re headed!!

Afghanistan
Iraq
Iran
Syria
North Korea
China
Russia
Central Asia
South America
Africa

Wow!! That’s pretty much the whole world!! Did I say AMWDS?!

But now China, Russia, and India are the rising global powers. The new kids on the block, so to say. But this goes against the grain. There’s probably a sense of insecurity creeping into American psyche because they may not be the only super power in another 30 to 40 years. That’s when the great American dream starts turning sour. And that is when, hopefully, America’s AMWDS will be forcefully cured!



new topics

top topics



 
0

log in

join