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Why does Evil Exist? God is the only True Life

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posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 01:36 PM
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queenannie38, you have a great mind!!! You frequently express wonderful words of wisdom.


Originally posted by queenannie38
I've been free of sin for 30 years....and a sinner each day of my life but that has nothing to do with my conversation with my only friend...and he never even uses the word sin...but love is almost every other word!


I will be your second friend!!! In reality, I believe you have many friends and I believe that many people care about you!!!




posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by GreatTech
I will be your second friend!!! In reality, I believe you have many friends and I believe that many people care about you!!!

GT you are truly a golden soul....thank you for your friendship and sincerity!

I do have many friends and actually would rather be a friend to another than count another as my friend. I get more by giving in friendship, i believe. It is hard to be my friend, too, trust me....not because i'm not fun but because i am awfully intense and never sit still either in body or mind. i will wear a person out - even myself.


But when i say my only friend what i mean really is that there is one friend who has been with me 24/7/365 ever since i can remember (about the age of 3 or 4) and that friend knows all my misdeeds and fearful thoughts and worst and best secrets and has never done anything but love me for being me....that is a source of strength that i would not trade for all the popularity in the world...because that strength i can share and it will grow...

this is what my friend said to me when i forgot sometimes i was not alone:

'and lo i will be with you always even unto the end of the world' (and/or age...both are equally true) and THAT is the rod that comforts me and my heartfelt desire is that others would know that for themselves, too...because it is not just for me or anyone else....for all of us...so much missed by doubting God is real and lives as Christ in our minds hearts and souls (and also among us but always hiding as one of us....but who would recognize that voice if they don't listen first within? and without knowing the voice how can one hope to see that face? )

So many people claim the first half of that last verse in Matthew (the great commission) and set out to convert the world....but the second half must come first and none seem to see it as the greatest gift in all the bible and the world, too...a promise kept that is the only thing any one can truly trust and never be let down on. If only we would trust instead of trying to validate our own fears by convincing others of something we do not yet know for sure!

There is no true evil, GT - only fear and loneliness...often manifesting outwardly as greed and avarice but only because those might bring false material security. Evil is not trusting God to be good to us...our parents whip our butt...if they had a satan to do it for them you know they'd let the dirty work be hired out....and that is all it is...God's evil is just the lessons from the unpleasant truths in life and man's evil is the fear of having to learn those lessons....

that i will stand upon as God given truth, too! Without apology for saying God talks to me, either.

who feels it knows it

but who listens overcomes

peace be with you, GT
i love you



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by queenannie38
I get more by giving in friendship, i believe. It is hard to be my friend, too, trust me....not because i'm not fun but because i am awfully intense and never sit still either in body or mind. i will wear a person out - even myself.




Bah! Anna I have not ever had a friend that is so easy to love. You make me smile everytime I think of you. Today you brought tears to my eyes, and laughter all at the same time.

Such a wonderful, funny, smart, inteligent, heartfelt girl. God shines on you like no other. The world is more tolerable with you in it.

A public thank you for being so cool.

Dankeshane, Anna



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 02:57 PM
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Annie, this statement from the bible always brings a tear to my eye:


'and lo i will be with you always even unto the end of the world'


I know it shouldn't...It should make me happy,but there is just something in it that almost makes me want to cry..


that i will stand upon as God given truth, too! Without apology for saying God talks to me, either.


There is nothing to apologise for. It's really too bad that more of us are not brave enough to confess it.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 11:24 PM
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Free will is necessary to show our love for God. Love of God can not be forced to us by not giving us free will. It has to come out from our own choosing.

God wants us to choose between good & bad. That is why there should be an opposition.
You know there is “good" because there is “bad”
And this could be the ultimate reason as for the question; “Why does Evil Exist?”

There are many questions unanswered. Too many mysteries. I guess we just have to take this by the heart.

God's ways are strange to men.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by searching_for_truth]



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 12:07 AM
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i don't think God is all that different than us....our minds are offsprings of His...

it's not about choosing good or bad *that doesn't even apply uniformly to any two people*

but about making your own choices and learning from them whatever comes from them...and then making the best of it and facing a new choice and lesson the next day

we are here to learn in a 'clinical' or 'hands on' fashion...not being examined harshly with only hope of pass or fail

how can we fail if we learn?

mistakes are man's conceptions....God calls them steps to success and freedom for each of his children...
just like we do for our babies.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 12:11 AM
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oh yeah

remember what one of the apostles wrote:

how can we say we are showing love for God who WE CANNOT SEE if we are not showing love for eachother WHOM WE CAN SEE?

God knows you will love him when you see him.

prove to him you can love your brother first



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 12:20 AM
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Damnit.

Nevermind.

:bnghd:

[edit on 3-2-2007 by LoneGunMan]



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 12:25 AM
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Thank you annie, greattech and speakeroftruth and others. This thread has
been informative, properly addressed and helping me to be encouraged in my time of trouble, indeed God can use anything:-)
Keep up the good work!



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 03:24 AM
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quote]Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Annie, this statement from the bible always brings a tear to my eye:


'and lo i will be with you always even unto the end of the world'


I'm with you. Please allow me to add these verses which helped me spiritually: Matthew 24:35: Jesus says, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."

And from Hebrew 13:5: “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.”



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by spines

Originally posted by GreatTech
But there is no free will. The moment "free will" enters is the moment the Omniscience of God exits. God is Omniscient. He cannot properly judge anybody for Heaven, Purgatory, or Hell without the absence of "free will." God controls everything; some are cognizant of it, some are not, but all eventually realize it. Everything is destiny.


So let me get this straight:

God has predetermined those who will spend eternity in hell. He has, since before they were born, decided that they will spend their eternal afterlife in pain, suffering and agony.

God has predetermined those who will be raped before age 8. God has set forth the motions that will lead a family annihilator to murder his loved ones. God has made certain individuals for the sole purpose of being tortured from an early stage in life until their untimley death. God has decided befroehand which parents will have to struggle with a severly autistic or mentally retarded child.

God has made a certain, and very high number of us, for the sole purpose of dying unnatural and untimely deaths; to lead horrible lives of pain and suffering.

Wow...and why should I follow this skewed sadist of a deity?


Strange there hasn't been a response to this.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 12:35 PM
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Originally posted by spines
For the people who are agreeing with GreatTech -and GreatTech himself: I would like you to adress my previous reply. In my attempts to understand the possibility of a God-driven fate I have come across those stumbling blocks.

So please, adress it and clear it up if I have it wrong.


I'll try to address this. For One if the Supreme Being decrees humanity will have free will then free will becomes Divine Providence. We arn't directed like a bunch of mindless puppets like some believe. This doesn't make the Supreme Being any weaker or ignorant by giving humans free will, in fact it would be by Divine Will that it even exists.

The Book of Job is a good example of free will in the Bible. Its also a good example of why people shouldn't have Blind Faith. The Most High punishes the ones who had blind faith and rewards Job who questioned the motives of the Most High. The Supreme Being didn't make us sheep or cattle. Abraham in Genesis debates with the Most High over the fate of Sodom and Gommorah, Moses prevents the Most High from annihilating the Hebrews in Exodus and the Almighty even apologizes for almost destroying them.

Basically I think people have a very narrow minded view of what they think the Supreme Being is or isn't. Everyone tries to make the Divine into their own image.

We drive our own fates with some help or hindrance by various powers including the Divine. The Most High intervenes often in our affairs but doesn't march us around like children's toys. A computer simulation would be the best example. The Most High creates the Sandbox world we are in, its laws, etc. Entities are placed in the Sandbox with a limited set of choices, knowledge and paths. The Entities then act on those choices with a limited set of drives. Every single bit of code in the program was written by the Author. The Author knows every action and event in the program. The Entities choices are not determined by the Author but He knows every choice they can make.

[edit on 3/2/07 by MikeboydUS]



posted on Feb, 4 2007 @ 08:42 AM
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Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I'll try to address this.


I cut the quote out because it is long and not needed for my purposes.

Thank you MikeboydUS for the response. Thank you for taking the time to articulate your opinions and feelings on the matter in response to my question.


However, as much as I enjoyed reading you take on the subject and my original reply, I was hoping to hear from those who sit in the camp of 'we do not have free will'.

I will continue to wait for that response I am sure.

[edit on 2/4/0707 by spines]



posted on Feb, 4 2007 @ 09:38 AM
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I believe that being here on earth is more than just "hands on" or "clinical".
Although partly yes, but there are more to it.

"Good or Bad' is just the general term & please do not take it literally. And no, we are not being examined harshly of course.

There is a verse in the bible that we were created on God's image and likeness. But that does not mean that we are 100% like him right?

Evil is real. Very Real. Look around you. Look what has been happening. Look at the evil things that men do. We have seen children that been raped, murdered etc. There are a thousand and one heinous crime that we knew and witnessed. If you want to know more the inside stories on these, please ask a person who had his child, kidnapped, abused and killed for example.

God loves both the sinners & the righteous. But I believe in the consequence of sin. We will be judged according to our own doings. Being in this world & not of this world. Trust me, there are more purpose for being here on earth. Very basic; are you going to be with God? or are you going to be with the devil? There are more and I will be happy to talk about it later.

Love & Peace


[edit on 4-2-2007 by searching_for_truth]

[edit on 4-2-2007 by searching_for_truth]



posted on Feb, 4 2007 @ 04:18 PM
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doesnt free will cause some kind of paradox when it comes to Gods Omniscience?
If God is All-Knowing.....He knows what we will do
If He knows what we will do....we dont have free will
If He doesnt know what we will do....then He is not all-Knowing.

something like that



posted on Feb, 4 2007 @ 06:23 PM
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All of this talk is beginning to sound like alcoholic babbling...
Cycles of speech repeated to encapsulate others or mystify them, either way it's becoming more and more destructive. Everyones focus has been so mishandled that no one knows if they're coming or going..
The world is ending the world is ending... The sky is falling the sky is falling!
Cry wolf.

We've created amazing stories with such depth, and we've made ourselves the characters, copy and paste society, culture and people. never-mind my post.
Step out of the stories, we don't even know what year it really is!


Taken from: www.ugkrishnamurti.org...

* Nature does not use anything as a model. It is only interested in perfecting the species. It is trying to create perfect species and not perfect beings.

* All these godman, gurus and flunkies are offering us a new oasis. You will find out that it is no different from other mirages.

* We are not created for any grander purpose than the ants that are there or the flies that are hovering around us or the mosquitoes that are sucking our blood.

* We are no more purposeful or meaningful than any other thing on this planet.

* We are using the neurons, our memory, constantly to maintain our
identity. Whether you are awake or asleep or dreaming, this process is carried on. But it is wearing you out. That is why I say that the tragedy that is facing mankind is not Aids or cancer but Alzheimer's disease.

* It is fear that makes you believe that you are living and that you will be dead. What we do not want is the fear to come to an end. That is why we have invented all these new minds, new sciences, new talks, therapies, choiceless awareness and various other gimmicks.

* Fear is the very thing that you do not want to be free from. If the fear comes to an end, you will drop dead physically. Clinical death will take place.

* The plain fact is that if you don't have a problem, you create one. If you don't have a problem you don't feel that you are living.

* That messy thing called 'mind' has created many destructive things. By far the most destructive of them all is God.

* The only way for any one who is interested in finding out what this is all about is to watch how this separation is occurring, how you are separating yourself from the things that are happening around you and inside you.

* When you are no longer caught up in the dichotomy of right and wrong or good and bad, you can never do anything wrong. As long as you are caught up in this duality, the danger is that you will always do wrong.

* In nature there is no death or destruction at all. What occurs is the reshuffling of atoms. If there is a need or necessity to maintain the balance of 'energy' in this universe, death occurs.

* I don't give a hoot for a sixth-century B.C. Buddha, let alone all the other claimants we have in our midst. They are a bunch of exploiters, thriving on the gullibility of the people.

* To be yourself requires extraordinary intelligence. You are blessed with that intelligence; nobody need give it to you; nobody can take it away from you. He who lets that express itself in its own way is a 'Natural Man'.

* It is an act of futility to relate my description to the way you are functioning. When you stop all this comparison, what is there is your Natural State. Then you will not listen to anybody.

* A 'moral man' is a frightened man- chicken hearted man; that is why he practices morality and sits in judgement over others.

* All experiences, spiritual or otherwise, are the basic cause of our suffering.

* The body is not interested in anything you are interested in. And that is the battle that is going on all the time.

* An artist is a craftsman like any other craftsmen. He uses that tool to express himself. All art is a pleasure movement.

* The 'Natural State' is acausal; it just happens.

* The so called self-realization is the discovery for yourself and by yourself that there is no self to discover. That will be a very shocking thing because it's going to blast every nerve, every cell, even the cells in the marrow of your bones.

* Consciousness is so pure that whatever you are doing in the direction of purifying that consciousness is adding impurity to it.

* There is no sadhana necessary, no purification methods necessary for this kind of a thing to happen - no preparation of any kind.

* Thought is in its birth, in its origin, in its expression and in its actions very fascist. When I use the word 'fascist' I do not use it in thepolictical sense but to mean that it controls and shapes our thinking and our actions.

* Thought is something dead and can never touch anything living. It cannot capture life, contain it, and give expression to it. The moment it tries to touch life it is destroyed by the quality of life.

* All the political ideologies and even the legal structures are the wartyoutgrowths of the religious thinking of man. (and the illusion it is seperate [church and state] is an elaborate hoax)

* All that is necessary for the survival of this living organism is already there. The tremendous intelligence of the body is no match for all that we have gathered and acquired through our intellect.

* A messiah is the one who leaves a mess behind him in this world

* The human organism is not interested in your wonderful religious ideas--peace, bliss, beatitude or any such thing. Its only interest is survival. What society has placed before us as the goal to reach and attain is the enemy of this living organism.

*Knowledge creates experience and experience strengthens the knowledge. This is a vicious circle.

*There is no such thing as 'knowledge' for the sake of knowledge. Knowledge is power. "I know. You don't know".

*It is the body that is immortal. It is living from moment to moment.

*This body doesn't want to learn anything. Left to itself it has tremendous intelligence.

*As a human body it is an extraordinary piece of creation. But as a human being he is rotten because of the culture.

*God is the figment of man's fertile imagination.

*Religions have promised roses but you end up with only thorns.

*The human thinking is born out of some sort of neurological defect in the human body. Therefore anything that is born out of human thinking is destructive.

*It is terror, not love, not brotherhood that will help us to live together. Until this message percolates to the level of human consciousness, I don't think there is any hope.

*Meditation itself is evil. That is why you get evil thoughts when you start meditating.

*Anything you want to be free from for whatever reason is the very thing that can free you.

*Atmospheric pollution is most harmless when compared to the spiritual and religious pollution that have plagued the world.

*Anything you experience based on knowledge is an illusion.

*A normal person lives in his illusions. A mad cap lives in his hallucinations. A man in the 'natural state' has neither of them.

*The body has no independent existence. You are a squatter there.

*You are not one thing and the life another. It is one unitary movement. Anything I say about it is misleading and confusing.

*The mystique of enlightenment is based upon the idea of transforming yourself. I maintain that there is nothing to change or transform.

*There has been no qualitative change in man's thinking; we feel about our neighbours just as the frightened caveman felt towards his. The only thing that has changed is our ability to destroy our neighbor and his property.

*What I am trying to say is that you must discover something for yourself. But do not be misled into thinking that what you find will be of use to society, that it can be used to change the world. You are finished with society, that is all

[edit on 2/4/2007 by PuRe EnErGy]



posted on Feb, 4 2007 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by spines

Originally posted by GreatTech
But there is no free will. The moment "free will" enters is the moment the Omniscience of God exits. God is Omniscient. He cannot properly judge anybody for Heaven, Purgatory, or Hell without the absence of "free will." God controls everything; some are cognizant of it, some are not, but all eventually realize it. Everything is destiny.


So let me get this straight:

God has predetermined those who will spend eternity in hell. He has, since before they were born, decided that they will spend their eternal afterlife in pain, suffering and agony.

God has predetermined those who will be raped before age 8. God has set forth the motions that will lead a family annihilator to murder his loved ones. God has made certain individuals for the sole purpose of being tortured from an early stage in life until their untimley death. God has decided befroehand which parents will have to struggle with a severly autistic or mentally retarded child.

God has made a certain, and very high number of us, for the sole purpose of dying unnatural and untimely deaths; to lead horrible lives of pain and suffering.

Wow...and why should I follow this skewed sadist of a deity?


Like kinglizard, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. However, I do not believe His Omniscience and Omnipotence is equal to God's. Without a Father, there is no Son. Without a Son, a Father can exist.

More directly to your questions, LIFE IS A CONSTANTLY LEARNING EXPERIENCE. Unquestionably, evil exists. Your examples describe some of the human evil that has taken place. However, does not good always triumph over evil? What are you doing to thwart, eliminate, or reduce evil? (Myself, I work in Spiritual development and medical research). Consider and judge your passions and do not just complain about life but take action to eliminate evil. You will Glorify God in the process and receive your award. Life is Eternal; pain and suffering can be greatly healed and eliminated.

To the issue of free will, God cares about His creation so much that He never departs from it. We will be reprimanded, but consider this a LEARNING PROCESS until we truly and consciously follow His will.

spines, your recognition that evil exists is a sign of a very good person. If you will, join in the fight against evil!!!



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 05:45 AM
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i hope someone replies to my earlier point. I didnt ask it in the way it possibly came across. I am religious myself, but there are certain things which i simply cannot get my head around. I cannot beleive there are religious people here who haven't had the same questions bouncing around their head at some point or another.

Free Will IS a Paradox. I shall set it out again
If God gave us free will, then He doesnt know what we will do.
If He doesnt know what we will do, then He is not All-Knowing.
If He IS All-Knowing then he Knows what we will do, therefore we have no free will

If you try to claim that its not a case of Him MAKING us do stuff, rather that HE simply KNOWS what choices we will make.....well, that leads us onto the Evil Paradox.
If God knew right from the beginning of time and space that Mr Smith from New York would rape his 3yr old daughter in the year 2005, and did nothing to prevent that, then God is not All-Loving

IE....If God is All-Loving, then why does He allow evil.
If God knows evil exists and doesnt do anything about it, then He is not All-Loving
If God cant do anything about it, then He is not All-Powerful



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by geek101
IE....If God is All-Loving, then why does He allow evil.
If God knows evil exists and doesnt do anything about it, then He is not All-Loving
If God cant do anything about it, then He is not All-Powerful


Sounds almost like the ex-nun Karen Armstrong....


The horror of Auschwitz is a stark challenge to many of the more conventional ideas of God. The remote God of the philosophers....becomes intolerable. Many Jews can no longer subscribe to the biblical idea of God who manifests himself in history, who, they say with Wiesel, died in Auschwitz. The idea of a personal God, like one of us writ large, is fraught with difficulty. If this God is omnipotent, he could have prevented the Holocaust. If he was unable to stop it, he is impotent and useless; if he could have stopped it and chose not to, he is a monster. Jews are not the only people who believe that the Holocaust put an end to conventional theology.

Karen Armstrong, A History of God



posted on Feb, 5 2007 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by melatonin
Sounds almost like the ex-nun Karen Armstrong....



Never heard of her, but thanks for the info.
It IS a pain trying to figure this one out though. I believe in God, but these two things, i cant get past. I simply cant work it out in my head and saying..."God works in mysterious ways", just doesnt cut it with me anymore.
Every night, i pray that God protects my children. From my perspective, He does, because when i wake up, they are still healthy and alive.
But what about religious people in other countries, also praying for their families health....and it doesnt work.

I was speaking to my eldest son about this and i gave him an analogy.
If i decided that today was Free Will day in my house, and that the kids could anything they wanted, i would not intervene, i would not do anything at all.
Now imagine that when i gave this order, i knew with about even 80% certainty, that my eldest son would choose to get revenge on his younger brother by beating him physically (not that he would, but for the sake of this analogy)......so the day comes and sure enough, this 6ft 16yr old, starts pounding his little brother to a pulp. I stand by and watch.

How then would society judge ME for not stepping in?

If i am expected to (and of course, WOULD) step in, and i am just an insignificant human, then how much more should we expect God to do so?

Religion eh?...lol...interesting stuff but confusing as hell.



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