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Germany Takes Action, Issues Warrants to Arrest 13 CIA Agents

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posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by cyberdude78
I've got to agree. We shouldn't give out the name's of men and women whom as far as we know simply obeyed their orders. The one's we should be giving up (and the one's the Germans should want) is whoever ordered this little operation. Along with an investigation into the European Union which allowed such flights to occur. There's a lot that needs investigating here, and I get the feeling it extends much farther than 13 agents.


First, the US government would likely turn them over once they have completed their current mission, the key is that this would not be done publically because of the outcry from the media and their families. The US doesn't care about its citizens in other jurisdiction outside of our borders.

Secondly, one would have to determine whether this action was a direct order or one that the agents drew up and put in front of brass as a genuine probability of a terrorist suspect. This is not to excuse the authorization by the higher ups, but accountability has to fall some on those who bagged and tortured this innocent man.




posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 10:49 PM
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It's not likely anyone "overheard" anything, it's highly professional people, trained to conduct the same rehearsed procedure every time, brainwashed to be sadistic and inhumane.

Just wonder where they get it from.



CAConrad0825
Secondly, one would have to determine whether this action was a direct order or one that the agents drew up and put in front of brass as a genuine probability of a terrorist suspect. This is not to excuse the authorization by the higher ups, but accountability has to fall some on those who bagged and tortured this innocent man.

It's nothing but standard procedure.

The account in Wiki describes his rendition, and it's the exact same procedure rendered in this report of an abduction as it took place in Stockholm.

Excerpt from the European Parliment Report on Secret Renditions.


153. In short, the facts occurred in the following manner: on 18 December 2001, Mr Agiza and Mr Alzery, Egyptian citizens seeking asylum in Sweden, were the subject of a decision dismissing the asylum application and ordering their deportation on grounds of security, taken in the framework of a special procedure at ministerial level.

.....

154. The account of this “check” is especially interesting, as it corresponds in detail to the account given independently by other victims of “rendition”, including Mr El-Masri. The procedure adopted by the American team, described in this case by the Swedish police officers present at the scene, was evidently well rehearsed: the agents communicated with each other by gestures, not words.

Owing to lack of space in the room made available to the Americans, the Swedish police were not able to observe everything. In particular, they did not see that (tranquillising) suppositories were administered and that diapers were affixed, as the detainees maintain, and as was done in other “renditions”. See the earlier section of this report on the ‘Human Impact of Renditions and Secret Detentions’.

Acting very quickly, the agents cut Agiza’s and Alzery’s clothes off them using scissors, dressed them in tracksuits, examined every bodily aperture and hair minutely, handcuffed them and shackled their feet, and walked them to the aircraft barefoot.

....

156. According to the ombudsman’s findings, the Swedish officers, who were poorly led, lost control of the operation from the start of the American team’s intervention. They ought to have intervened to put an end to the degrading treatment of the detainees, which was not justified on security grounds since the Swedish police had already carried out a body search on the detainees at the time of arrest.


It is from this atsnn thread Europe Knew About CIA's Secret "Renditions" European Parliament Report Reveals


[edit on 1-2-2007 by khunmoon]



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 11:18 PM
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The US doesn't care about its citizens in other jurisdiction outside of our borders.



^ever heard of gary powers?



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 11:30 PM
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Gary Powers?
The U-2 pilot shot down over the former Soviet Union?

What's he got to do with secret renditions?



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 11:37 PM
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Ever heard of US citizens becoming Enemy combatants who can be subject to the tortures suffered by this German national?



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 11:46 PM
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Whatta you mean? Gary Powers crossed over?



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 11:56 PM
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it was just a reply to the guy who said that the us doesnt care about their citizens in other countries



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by XphilesPhan
yeah, and 10 bucks says the germans or any other euros for that matter hasnt the guts to try that.
We might just have to "liberate" them as well.
[edit on 31-1-2007 by XphilesPhan]


I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

Its this kind of arrogant, repulsive overbearing attitude that leads people to fly airliners into skyscrapers.

You are a disgrace to the USA for coming out with statements like this.



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by neformore
Its this kind of arrogant, repulsive overbearing attitude that leads people to fly airliners into skyscrapers.


Not really, though it might not help it's certainly not the cause.


Originally posted by neformore
You are a disgrace to the USA for coming out with statements like this.


Again, I don't think so, besides, he was only being half serious.



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 02:53 AM
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Originally posted by cyberdude78
I've got to agree. We shouldn't give out the name's of men and women whom as far as we know simply obeyed their orders. The one's we should be giving up (and the one's the Germans should want) is whoever ordered this little operation. Along with an investigation into the European Union which allowed such flights to occur. There's a lot that needs investigating here, and I get the feeling it extends much farther than 13 agents.


They may have been following orders but so were guards at concentration camps in Nazi Germany. That doesn't excuse them from colluding in an illegal act.

Are you saying that anybody can torture with impunity as long as they are following orders?

If you want to understand why millions of people around the world hate and mistrust the US, just read how you justify the torture of innocent people and the how the guilty are protected by the authorities!



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 06:38 AM
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I would be really suprised if they got were able to put anyone from the CIA on trial. I mean its Germany. what do they think they're going to do when we don't produce these agents? The answer is nothing. I'm not on the side of the CIA people because i dont know what actually happend, just like the rest of you. It could be possible that the man they snagged was actually in the wrong but we might never know what the real story is. Im just saying I doubt these CIA agents are going to be held accountable for anything.



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 06:38 AM
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Now a full account of the case is given in Washington Post.


The case is the second in which European prosecutors have filed charges against CIA employees involved in counterterrorism operations. Italian prosecutors have charged 25 CIA operatives and a U.S. Air Force officer with kidnapping a radical cleric on a Milan street in 2003 and taking him to Cairo, where he says he was tortured.

European law enforcement authorities acknowledged that it is highly unlikely that any CIA officers -- most of whom work undercover, using false identities -- would be apprehended or extradited from the United States. But the arrest warrants, filed in Munich, mark yet another case in which CIA activities in Europe since the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, have strained diplomatic ties and underscored deep differences between the United States and its transatlantic allies over how to fight terrorism.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Please note, Italy have charged 25 agents.



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by racerzeke
it was just a reply to the guy who said that the us doesnt care about their citizens in other countries


For future reference, in any forum not just ATS, if you make a point to counter an argument, back it up, don't just make a one liner.

Yes, Gary Powers almost had the world go to war over him and the US backed him up, but what about the current administrations total disregard for its citizens who in this time of a "War on Terror" individual rights have been suspended.

Such people as John Walker Lindh, Jose Padilla and other non-US nationals have been dragged to Gitmo and left without being charged.

Also the newest anti-terror legislation states that any US citizen can be declared an "Enemy Combatant" even without ever leaving the United States in their lifetime.



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 10:01 PM
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And now the courage of the legal branch of power in Germany shakes the political one. You bet the politicians never wanted this case.

German foreign minister under fire on human rights


Steinmeier was named foreign minister in November 2005 by Chancellor Angela Merkel's under a conservative- led coalition, which includes the Social Democrats. Since then, the image of the Schröder coalition has become increasingly tarnished as special parliamentary committees investigate any government role — including Steinmeier's — in two cases that apparently involved the U.S. war on terror.

    Murat Kurnat, a German-born Turkish citizen, was picked up in Pakistan in late 2001, transferred to a detention center in Afghanistan and then sent to Guantánamo Bay. The U.S. apparently offered to release him in late 2002 under certain conditions, but the Schröder government declined.

    Khalid el-Masri, a German citizen whose disappearance was cited in the warrants made public Wednesday....

As opposition parties demand that Steinmeier explain his role in both cases, Merkel's government is standing behind him. During a private meeting at the chancellery Monday, Merkel and Kurt Beck, leader of the Social Democrats, agreed to protect Steinmeier, according to party officials.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

This case is bound to backfire on the politicians.

The debate over this case is running high in Germany.

The German television channel NDR claims to have the true identities of the agents in question.


On Wednesday, a German radio station, NDR, revealed what it said were the names of the 13 people — 11 men and two women. Stern declined to discuss the names, which have been picked up in other German news media.

The whereabouts of all 13 people are not known, though a German television program, "Panorama," tracked down three of them in North Carolina last September. They declined to comment on their activities.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 07:43 AM
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Here is interview with German foreign minister Frank-Walter Steinmeir and a description of the Murat Kurnaz case.


When in Doubt, Choose Security
Steinmeier is earnest and seems a bit irritated but is by no means defensive. He insists that he feels deeply troubled by Kurnaz's story. But then he adds that, as head of the German Chancellery, it was his job to look out for German security -- and, shortly after Sept. 11, 2001, Kurnaz was considered a security risk.

What if Kurnaz, after returning from Guantanamo, had been involved in an attack, he asks? "You have to imagine what would have happened," he says, answering his own question, "if there had been an attack and it later turned out that we could have prevented it." Steinmeier is a calm person but at this point he talks himself into a rage. "I wouldn't decide any differently today," he says.

Wonder how he feels about El-Masri.



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23

We might just have to. One of my favorite pieces of legislation, The Hague Invasion Act. Protecting US citizens from unaccountable international bureaucracy since 2002.




[edit on 31-1-2007 by WestPoint23]


So, are you saying that we the US can do whatever the hell we want when ever we want without consequence? If I am mistaken, please explain your stance on this as I completely disagree with the idea. No wonder so many people in this world hate the US....



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by cuda
I It could be possible that the man they snagged was actually in the wrong but we might never know what the real story is.


It doesn't matter as they didn't charge him with anything. He was a legal national of a sovereign nation, we illegally kidnapped him then transported him to another country to be tortured. Only after they realized they had the wrong guy did they release him. Am I the only one that has a HUGE problem with this??!!??




posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 08:55 PM
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Today BBC has a little more background on the Masri case.

"I'm suffering from stress - this experience has left me traumatised," he says.


His German lawyer Manfred Gnjidic told the BBC News website that his client was feeling "isolated and depressed".

"His life isn't back to normal, he was tortured, nobody cared about him until now. The trauma is so deep in him, he needs a lot of help, not just in psychotherapy. Nobody was able to get him a simple job."

Mr Gnjidic says that he has evidence of how his client was maltreated: "We have some witnesses, we worked a lot to get one of them, from Algeria."

The arrest warrants for the 13 agents accused of involvement were issued last month. The information for them came from Mr Masri's lawyers and a journalist and officials in Spain, where the flight carrying Mr Masri is thought to have originated. Mr Gnjidic described the CIA agents as "contractors" from a base in North Carolina.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

But what good are witnesses if they are a threat to national security?



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