The scariest story of the year?

Originally posted by Jimmy1880
If anyone really wants to know everything there is to know about radiation exposure, I have uploaded a scanned document created by a Department working for the US government.

It's long but if your interested in this it makes good reading!

Dont hate the player, hate the game

www.filefactory.com...

I tried that link in Firefox & IE all I see is:

File Name: 6419458.pdf
Size: 2.29 MB
Description: Government study into Radiation exposure

I even accepted the activeX...(dont like that but)...still could not get the file...

Originally posted by downtown436
Highly enriched uranium (HEU) is highly radioactive, but you can actually handle it with rubber gloves on. As long as it doesn't touch you, and none of it goes in your body, you will not be poisoned. When you breathe in small particles, you will be poisoned. As scary as it is, you can have a plastic bag of HEU in your pocket, and as long as none comes out, you are good to go.

Now how hard is it to detect? Are there Long range Trackers? or Long Range detection technology for Uranium? - Im completely Ignorant in this regard.

Any Links would help. - Thanks

As stated above by some others there seems to be a real misunderstanding of the radioactive properties of many substances.

A recent example of this Alpha type of radioctive decay/emmission would be recent killing of Litvenenko... the polonium used alos is like Uranium it emits Alpha not Beta or Gamma emmisions. He died a terrible death... did the waitress who handled his mug of tea suffering to...the dish washer no..... the skin is enough to stop the Alpha particles. However when ingested then it directly as no "shield" affects the dna/rna of the cells destroying them.

It is good that this is so otherwise a lot of Africa and parts of the Native American and Australian Aboriginal peoples would have suffered for generations as the Uranium mines and deposits found in this area.

What this uranium would do though if made into a dirty bomb would be to become part of the atmosphere of the surrounding areas after the release of it after the explosion. This would spread the uranium into peoples lungs...and into the water and food supply therefore becoming ingestible. Though most would suffer over many many years afterwards from genetic and cancerous problems not many would die livenenko style.... though obviously this depends on the amount used.

When this uranium is then used as the "fuel" for a Nuclear bomb it then as described above obviously becomes ingestable from a myriad of sources..... however the real radioactive effects (killing quickly) would occur due the emmision of Beta and Gamma rays as the result of the emmission of these particles...they are emmitted from an initial alpha source such as Uranium as during the compression and superheating of this Uranium it then changes states and like in the sun, changes to differant elements and isotopes in a series (albiet extremely quickly ... microsecods between phases) of reactions, each reaction liberating more and more energy and as the fuel of this liberation changes itself during this process it is obvious then that the eemisions from that reaction would change too. As a nuclear bomb involves this chain reaction it actually means that things such as the Iron in the steel cases of the bomb are also changed to differant elements and emit their own, or any particles of such a substance quickly "picks up" radiocative particles from the core and reaction of the bomb. In a strange way due to the nature of Nuclear explosions (modern Hydrogen bombs not atomic) massively more radiation is liberated than was originally to be found in the fuel.

Its like Gasoline.... in its normal form if you inhale the vapours you would get "high" and be affected by the petrol... drinking it (enough) would certainly kill you, though a spill on the hand would maybe cause a slight burn and irration but no long term damage. Then we burn this gasoline...it changes state in this reaction and then we would be confused to find that all is now emitted after the explosive event is Water, Particulates and gases (sic Co2 is one), so if you sniffed the exhaust pipe we know you would probably die either in the long term through lung cancer (PPM's induced) or if enough through general poisining abilities of all substances...remember water can kill you if you drink too much.....

This though is very very worrying....I am certain that if there is a international problem on nuclear materials it will originate in russia... if this person had 1 gram he could probably get hold of 1000 grams a whole new World then in the wrong hands...this just shows the danger of compacency on this proliferation.

elf

Post deleted by author

[edit on 31/1/07 by Jimmy1880]

Forget the above link their service is rubbish and asks you to download software.

this one is better, sorry never put a file on a file sharing thing before

www.sharebigfile.com...

[edit on 31/1/07 by Jimmy1880]

Hi A1ex,

Originally posted by a1ex

Originally posted by downtown436
Highly enriched uranium (HEU) is highly radioactive, but you can actually handle it with rubber gloves on. As long as it doesn't touch you, and none of it goes in your body, you will not be poisoned. When you breathe in small particles, you will be poisoned. As scary as it is, you can have a plastic bag of HEU in your pocket, and as long as none comes out, you are good to go.

Now how hard is it to detect? Are there Long range Trackers? or Long Range detection technology for Uranium? - Im completely Ignorant in this regard.

Any Links would help. - Thanks

Thats not unusual for people not to know this stuff...

A nuclear weapon can not be detected from more than 20 metres by the radiation it gives off. Governments are uneasy about people knowing this, you could transport them anywhere without people being able to track you!
The only places I know that is difficult to enter with a nuclear weapon is London and Manchester, UK. I know that on the major roads going into these cities have sniffer boxes that can detect fluctuations in Gamma radiation.

The reason the US for example would know if Russia is about to launch a nuclear attack is because they have sattelites that pick up the electronic signals of when the missiles are being booted up and also sensors that pick up the heat signature of large rockets.

Here's some info on Alpha and Gamma rays:

Alpha Radiation

Alpha radiation is a heavy, very short-range particle and is actually an ejected helium nucleus. Some characteristics of alpha radiation are:

* Most alpha radiation is not able to penetrate human skin.

* Alpha-emitting materials can be harmful to humans if the materials are inhaled, swallowed, or absorbed through open wounds.

* A variety of instruments has been designed to measure alpha radiation. Special training in the use of these instruments is essential for making accurate measurements.

* A thin-window Geiger-Mueller (GM) probe can detect the presence of alpha radiation.

* Instruments cannot detect alpha radiation through even a thin layer of water, dust, paper, or other material, because alpha radiation is not penetrating.

* Alpha radiation travels only a short distance (a few inches) in air, but is not an external hazard.

* Alpha radiation is not able to penetrate clothing.
Gamma and X Radiation

....

Gamma radiation and x rays are highly penetrating electromagnetic radiation. Some characteristics of these radiations are:

* Gamma radiation or x rays are able to travel many feet in air and many inches in human tissue. They readily penetrate most materials and are sometimes called "penetrating" radiation.

* X rays are like gamma rays. X rays, too, are penetrating radiation. Sealed radioactive sources and machines that emit gamma radiation and x rays respectively constitute mainly an external hazard to humans.

* Gamma radiation and x rays are electromagnetic radiation like visible light, radiowaves, and ultraviolet light. These electromagnetic radiations differ only in the amount of energy they have. Gamma rays and x rays are the most energetic of these.

* Dense materials are needed for shielding from gamma radiation. Clothing provides little shielding from penetrating radiation, but will prevent contamination of the skin by gamma-emitting radioactive materials.

* Gamma radiation and/or characteristic x rays frequently accompany the emission of alpha and beta radiation during radioactive decay.

Originally posted by Jimmy1880

A nuclear weapon can not be detected from more than 20 metres by the radiation it gives off. Governments are uneasy about people knowing this, you could transport them anywhere without people being able to track you!
The only places I know that is difficult to enter with a nuclear weapon is London and Manchester, UK. I know that on the major roads going into these cities have sniffer boxes that can detect fluctuations in Gamma radiation.

The reason the US for example would know if Russia is about to launch a nuclear attack is because they have sattelites that pick up the electronic signals of when the missiles are being booted up and also sensors that pick up the heat signature of large rockets.

20 meters?

This is relly an eye opener! Thanks for the info

I saw this on the news this evening. What I found a little bizzare, and rather disturbing, is that as the police entered the premises where this guy was staying, or where he was caught, the guy, pannicking and what not decided to try and flush the Uranium down the toilet!

Now what kind of damage would that do to the water supply? Could that be a possible terrorist threat? simply flushing some radio-active waste down a toilet or into a drain?

The_Modulus, only if you drink from the toilet I would of thought.

I imagine after its been diluted way beyond one part per billion it would be sort of background radiation. Round here we got a granite bed rock and loads of old mines which the ground water would pass through, homes in certain areas get tested for radon gas rising up for that reason, no one glows in the dark tho (part from the Cornish!)

Very good information Jimmy and correct from what I can tell. I just learned in college that an alpha particle is a helium nucleus, .

what is scary about this is how easily someone could make a nuclear weapon with this stuff. From what I understand, it only takes about 20 kg(less if it is highly enriched uranium with proper tamper in its design) to create a small nuclear weapon. If you had some plastic explosives and could compress the core equally, you would have yourself a 20-30 kt fire cracker. Makes you wonder how much more he would of been able to get.

Its probably not as easy as you think to knock up a nuke.

You have to be an explosives god in order to get the symmetrical implosion of the core - that and actually making the enriched bomby goodness are the two hardest bits. – then you just gotta have the balls to pull the pin!

Originally posted by Now_Then
Its probably not as easy as you think to knock up a nuke.

You have to be an explosives god in order to get the symmetrical implosion of the core - that and actually making the enriched bomby goodness are the two hardest bits. – then you just gotta have the balls to pull the pin!

Dirty Bomb

Because a terrorist dirty bomb is unlikely to cause many deaths, many do not consider this to be a weapon of mass destruction. Its purpose would presumably be to create psychological, not physical, harm through ignorance, mass panic, and terror. For this reason dirty bombs are sometimes called "weapons of mass disruption". Additionally, decontamination of the affected area might require considerable time and expense, rendering affected areas partly unusable and causing economic damage.

Imagine a dirty bomb exploding in Central New york or Las Vegas?
not causing many deaths but panic...like stated above: ""weapons of mass disruption""

[edit on 1/31/2007 by a1ex]

And to Enforce my point as to waht kinda reactions would take place:

Ad campaign triggers bomb scare in Boston
Source: www.cnn.com...

this from an simple LED character Can you now imagine a dirty bomb?

[edit on 1/31/2007 by a1ex]

50 tunnels discovered running under U.S. Mexico border (

Among the unfilled tunnels, created to ferry people and drugs, is the longest one yet found — extending nearly half a mile from San Diego to Tijuana. Nearby, another sophisticated passageway once known as the Taj Mahal of tunnels has been sitting unfilled for 13 years, authorities say.

Ok Link this to the news on the 1st post on this thread....

The making of an A-Bomb can be fairly simple in design:

To stop teh bomb going off unpredictably the fissile material is split into 2 subcriticle segments (Subcriticle meaning basically not enough material to start a reaction) the trigger (explosives) would "shoot" one part of the fissile material, in this case Uranium, isotope 235, into the other. If this is done properly the two parts come together and become "critical" (Critical meaning enough fissile material to start a reaction)

The real art is the mathematics and timing behind the trigger, I can be a bit of a geek at times but the mathematics is beautiful!




[edit on 31/1/07 by Jimmy1880]

[edit on 31/1/07 by Jimmy1880]

The Dirty bomb is largely a political device to create fear, yes it wouldn't be pleasant if one went off, but it won't be catastrophic either! The dirty bomb is a bomb exploded with Depleted Uranium, Depleted Uranium can be harmfull if its vapour is inhaled or ingested, but it will not neccessarily kill you.

As I'm in the mood for explaining stuff here goes;

Depleted uranium is used in anti tank rounds because its radioactive! Right?

Wrong...

Depleted Uranium or Uranium -238 is whats left after bomb grade Uranium is extracted.

Depleted Uranium is used because of its unique properties as a metal, again the same with the Atomic bomb the radiation is an un-wanted by product.

Depleted Uranium is more dense than lead but as strong as steel, when this hits a tank the dense material pierces the Armour of the tank and through the impact heats up quite a lot and vapourizes. Another property of depleted uranium is that it's a pyrophoric metal meaning its vapor is highly flammable, so the heat from impact ignites the vapourized depleted uranium and kills the occupants of the tank.

Depleted uranium is used also in bunker buster bombs

Hope you havn't minded me hijackin your thread A1ex



[edit on 31/1/07 by Jimmy1880]

umm from the schematics mentioned above I will speculate

1958 US gov invented the internet
1940 US developed the nuclear bobmb (by an italian)

and when the technology was given to the public we have:

2007 internet used by the public to publish schematics and information
2007 the public has acceess to materials as to how to make it on a small scale...for now

Our own Nature is our own worst enemy....

Originally posted by Jimmy1880
The Dirty bomb is largely a political device to create fear, yes it wouldn't be pleasant if one went off, but it won't be catastrophic either! The dirty bomb is a bomb exploded with Depleted Uranium, Depleted Uranium can be harmfull if its vapour is inhaled or ingested, but it will not neccessarily kill you.

As I'm in the mood for explaining stuff here goes;

Depleted uranium is used in anti tank rounds because its radioactive! Right?

Wrong...

Depleted Uranium or Uranium -238 is whats left after bomb grade Uranium is extracted.

Depleted Uranium is used because of its unique properties as a metal, again the same with the Atomic bomb the radiation is an un-wanted by product.

Depleted Uranium is more dense than lead but as strong as steel, when this hits a tank the dense material pierces the Armour of the tank and through the impact heats up quite a lot and vapourizes. Another property of depleted uranium is that it's a pyrophoric metal meaning its vapor is highly flammable, so the heat from impact ignites the vapourized depleted uranium and kills the occupants of the tank.

Depleted uranium is used also in bunker buster bombs

Hope you havn't minded me hijackin your thread A1ex

Umm after reading about depleted uranium :

67% denser than lead, only slightly less than tungsten and gold....
en.wikipedia.org...

I kinda wonder has anyone tried running experiments on the metal's
conductivity? i mean superconducrtors...after all gold is a superconductor
and this material is as dense as Gold but hey im no expert...

[edit on 1/31/2007 by a1ex]

[edit on 1/31/2007 by a1ex]

Originally posted by a1ex
umm from the schematics mentioned above I will speculate

1958 US gov invented the internet
1940 US developed the nuclear bobmb (by an italian)

and when the technology was given to the public we have:

2007 internet used by the public to publish schematics and information
2007 the public has acceess to materials as to how to make it on a small scale...for now

Our own Nature is our own worst enemy....

The pic I found off the net its a basic deign "little boy" was based upon but the basic principles to create an atomic bomb I have in front of me in a text book.

Btw! Klaus Fuchs, who was part of the manhatten project was the one mainly responsible for the US building an atomic bomb that worked, he was the one who perfected the mathematical furmulae in the explosive triggers. Unfortunatly he was a Russian spy and gave the blueprints of little boy and fat man straight to Russia

Umm after reading about depleted uranium :

67% denser than lead, only slightly less than tungsten and gold....
en.wikipedia.org...

I kinda wonder has anyone tried running experiments on the metal's
conductivity? im mena superconducrtors after all gold is a superconductor
and this material is as dense as Gold but hey im no expert...

[edit on 1/31/2007 by a1ex]

Sorry A1ex I'm not too knowledgable on superconductors, I have thoroughly enjoy this thread though,

Thanks

I remember a story about Stalin, when he was first presented to WG Uranium.

Scientist showed him a 1 kilo ball of the stuff and he insisted in keeping it in his office, cause he was fascinated by the slight heat it was giving off, felt when you placed your hand around it.

They tried to tell him it was dangerous, but...