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History Channel, On Now, 1:05am, Ancient transportation

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posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 12:07 AM
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New 2007 Ancient Discoveries. They are examining possibilities like ancient aircraft.

Wow, plans for steam powered car!!

Man, I wish I had some way to record this one.

Troy

[edit on 31-1-2007 by cybertroy]




posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 12:13 AM
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Thanks for the heads up Troy,just kicked on the tube.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 12:46 AM
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Ack! If only I knew this earlier, i could have set up my recorder. Sounds like an interesting subject. Any word on flying vehicles?



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 01:39 AM
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Yeah, they built a scaled up model of those little model airplanes that you hear about from time to time, and were flying it. I think they are made of gold.

Of course you hear reference to insects, but those little models are obviously not models of insects, they have rudders, and delta wings.

Anyway, the model flew quite well.

They built a model out of an old design for a jet powered type car, and it reached about 40 miles an hour, using gun powder.

They also build a model of the Sacara bird (spelling?) that you have seen in the egyptian pyramids. It was unstable in a simulation but they noticed that there was a place on the bird where something appeared to have broken off. This is the exact spot where the rear wing of plane should be located. They added the wing and the Sacara bird flew like a champ.

I'm ready for a re-writing of history.


Oh, I have a feeling this is only a small part of our denied history.

Troy



[edit on 31-1-2007 by cybertroy]



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 05:03 AM
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Originally posted by cybertroy
Yeah, they built a scaled up model of those little model airplanes that you hear about from time to time, and were flying it. I think they are made of gold.

So they built an upscaled model of the little "airplanes" out of gold??? Man, that has to expensive


Without knowing anything about propulsion, material and detailed construction its impossible to accurately scale something up. What, they took a little gold birdlike thing and said "I know! Lets make a similarly shaped birdlike thing out of balsa wood and cloth and see if it flies! AMAZING WHAT THEY KNEW!!!"

[edit on 31-1-2007 by merka]



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 05:10 AM
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Originally posted by merka

Originally posted by cybertroy
Yeah, they built a scaled up model of those little model airplanes that you hear about from time to time, and were flying it. I think they are made of gold.

So they built an upscaled model of the little "airplanes" out of gold??? Man, that has to expensive


Without knowing anything about propulsion, material and detailed construction its impossible to accurately scale something up. What, they took a little gold birdlike thing and said "I know! Lets make a similarly shaped birdlike thing out of balsa wood and cloth and see if it flies! AMAZING WHAT THEY KNEW!!!"

[edit on 31-1-2007 by merka]


Um...did you see the episode? Because I have no clue where you're coming form, or where you're going w/ this...


We, the people of the future did the 'scaling up'. And I'm pretty sure we have knowledge "about propulsion, material and detailed construction"....


The gold figures the last poster was reffering to are the ancient models from South America. Some dude built a 16:1 replica, and it flew beautifully.

As for the Saqara bird, they analyzed it and made 3d computations and had it built by CAD, so that it was the EXACT replica of the Saqara bird(meaning all wings shapes and fueselage shapes were exact to the wooden original).

Then, like said earlier in the thread, once they noticed a piece of the 'bird' had broken off, they replicated a tail piece (I'm assuming using the same measurements as the main wings, then scaled down, so as to not add present knowledge of aerodynamics into the design).

And it also flew beautifully! But, although I'd love for the Egyptians to have had gliders at the least (aside from their kites), it may have been an amazing coincidence...only time will tell.

As per the program:
I was hoping they'd expand on the Anaszazi (sp?) and their kite/ballons fueld by fire on the ground...Maybe next time...


[edit on 1/31/2007 by Arcane Demesne]



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 05:22 AM
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The ancient civilizations didn't know anything about propulsion, material or detailed construction. Archeologists haven't found any ''black box''
.

I do believe though, that an ancient civilization of unknown origin (perhaps alien or humans from the future) had that technology and these peoples of America just created replicants. It is in human nature to depict in art what see in the real world and i do believe that they did so.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 07:49 AM
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Arcane Demesne, I have not seen the episode you're right about that. But I am still amazed that you seem very surprised of their findings. Something that look like a bird may actually fly? Shocking


And I find it very difficult to believe that a 16:1 replica of the gold birds (or fly-fish, as I believe it is) is capable of flying. Did he strap a jet engine to a lump of gold? I doubt it, so he must have used other materials. And most likely streamlined the design since we cant tell much from the little lumps of gold. What do we have then? Well what do you know, something that would very much look like a bird in design!

Let me illustrate the problem in todays sense - a small metallic airplane (say 5cm long), a childrens toy. I know I had them when I was young. Complete with gears and tail and all! Now upscale it to a real commercial airliner. What do we have? A 500,000 ton lump of metal that look like a plane and would probably do fairly well in wind tunnels. But it wouldnt fly very well. In fact, it wouldnt move an inch cause it wouldnt have any engines except metal slabs under its wings. In short, its just an elaborate lump of metal, not an airplane. Despite the fact its made from something that comes directly from the real deal!!!



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 07:54 AM
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Im goint to run out and build myself a Chinese rocket chair and when I blow myself up Ill sue both the History Channel and China for not telling me not to try it at home. Big money, big money. No Whammies.



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 12:58 AM
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No, obviously the model that flew wasn't made of gold, or metal, but the actual artifact is. They are kind of like little die cast airplanes. Like a little toy a kid would have.

All they did was scale it up, using proper materials so it could fly.

And obviously the little matchbox toy airplanes we have these days wouldn't fly either. It is a "representation" made of metal.

There is no question that those golden artifacts look like airplanes. There really isn't any point in arguing about it.

I really don't care if some guys here want to laugh this away, because the truth is the only thing that matters. I want the history that is rightfully ours to be restored.

Troy



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 01:23 AM
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Originally posted by merka
Arcane Demesne, I have not seen the episode you're right about that. But I am still amazed that you seem very surprised of their findings. Something that look like a bird may actually fly? Shocking


And I find it very difficult to believe that a 16:1 replica of the gold birds (or fly-fish, as I believe it is) is capable of flying. Did he strap a jet engine to a lump of gold?


What are you, 7 yrs old?
Just because something 'looks like a bird', does not mean it will fly. In fact, in most cases, it probably wouldn't. Birds must flap their wings. Plane's do not.


Originally posted by Arcane Demesne
The gold figures the last poster was reffering to are the ancient models from South America.


It's pretty clear we all stated the MODELS THE ANCIENTS MADE were gold, and the 16:1 replica was made my US FROM THE FUTURE, not made of gold. Cripes, how can you even comment on a show without even seeing it?


I doubt it, so he must have used other materials.


Duh, that's what we said.




And most likely streamlined the design since we cant tell much from the little lumps of gold.


No, he didn't, he measured them thoroughly and built his model (again, his model he created was not made of gold) according to the exact measurements of the gold pieces. He flew it w/ model airplane engines.



What do we have then? Well what do you know, something that would very much look like a bird in design!


Models of birds don't fly. Their wings work from different physical energy than a plane's wing.



Let me illustrate the problem in todays sense - a small metallic airplane (say 5cm long), a childrens toy. I know I had them when I was young. Complete with gears and tail and all! Now upscale it to a real commercial airliner. What do we have? A 500,000 ton lump of metal that look like a plane and would probably do fairly well in wind tunnels.


maybe, maybe not, test that theory of yours. Although no one in their right mind would fill a fuesalage full of metal,
They are MODELS, not actual flying aircraft themselves.



But it wouldnt fly very well. In fact, it wouldnt move an inch cause it wouldnt have any engines except metal slabs under its wings.


If it's a poorly made model, no it wouldn't fly.



In short, its just an elaborate lump of metal, not an airplane. Despite the fact its made from something that comes directly from the real deal!!!


Made from something? I suppose you meant made from the blue-prints or ideas of the 'real deal'. In which case, you'd probably be wrong. I doubt toy manufactures go through that much trouble.



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 02:17 AM
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Think it that way if it is hard to believe:

If you go to Jumbo stores you can see many abominations of planes for kids. None of them fly. None of the is made of metal but of plastic for the kid's protections and contains many lights so the kid may have fun. Not exactly a plane but a plane nonetheless.



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 03:36 AM
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what I like the best about these ancient aircraft is that they all had vtol capability and apparently ran on sunlight



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 07:58 AM
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Does anyone know if they will air this episode again?

I will set DVR for new episodes from now on. Thanks for info!



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 03:24 AM
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I guess you could try checking tvguide.com and see if they have the schedule. This episode came on Late Tuesday night (actually Wed morning). I don't know about other days, times and geographic locations?

Troy

[edit on 2-2-2007 by cybertroy]



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 06:38 AM
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Then he made something new, not an "ancient airplane".

Nothing will change the fact that its not very scientific to scale up a small gold figurine to a modern jet aircraft anymore than it would be to scale up a battering ram into a tank.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by merka]



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 11:39 AM
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Originally posted by cybertroy
I guess you could try checking tvguide.com and see if they have the schedule. This episode came on Late Tuesday night (actually Wed morning). I don't know about other days, times and geographic locations?

Troy

[edit on 2-2-2007 by cybertroy]


Thank you!

They will air it just before new show.

www.history.com...



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 03:21 PM
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I actually saw that show. Interesting but I have to concur with Merka. The RC model really doesn't prove much.

The creator of the ancient airplane made a lot of assumptions about the shapes of elements. On the actual artifact the wings are rather thick. Not really foiled as far as we can see. He, of course, applied a modern understanding of aerodynamics to design the wings and control surfaces. which ended up rather thin and as far as I could see (never really got a good look at the shape of the foil) with a modern airfoil.

He also put a modern engine in and routed for it in a ducted fan arrangement. We have found no evidence of ancient glow engines or anything related, and there is no evidence given the artifact how it was powered (if we are to assume it is an airplane). So, again, another concession to modern technology.

He also had to guess at the CG (center of gravity), control actuation, construction materials and weight, and about every other aspect of how this "plane" might have functioned.

And I am a rc modeler. And you would be amazed at the variety of shapes we can get to fly stably. Many people fly lawnmower shaped planes regularly.

www.youtube.com...

I would say more than proving that that is representative of an ancient aircraft the modeler proved his capacity for building offbeat flying model aircraft.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 03:51 AM
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Thank for elaborating my point. Since I havent seen it, I couldnt go into details about the "upscale", just speculate on how he would do. And you pretty much confirm my suspicions, heh.

That lawnmover is hilarous, lol. You really can make anything fly if you strap a large enough jet engine on it.



posted on Feb, 4 2007 @ 01:48 AM
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Thanks for the info vietifulJoe. The next episode sounds pretty cool.

The skeptics can say what they want, but those little models look like airplanes. Even if the thing wasn't to scale, there's no doubt those things have the characteristics of airplanes. There is nothing to argue about.

You guys distract us from the obviousness of the whole thing, with things like "wing thickness." It doesn't really matter if the thing is built to scale. It doesn't really matter if you couldn't fly a scaled up model of it. Your arguments are just a bunch of meaningless smoke. Until there is some other explanation that makes sense, those are airplanes.

You guys come here and waste huge amounts of our time arguing that a black cat isn't actually a black cat.

What is your point?

Troy

[edit on 4-2-2007 by cybertroy]



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