Global Warming Debate Turns Ugly

With this Congress you just might be right...

But we will always have a choice, no matter how painful.

Looks like the conclusion is tough nuts for all, so start hoarding cause climate hell cometh:



Guns, drugs and food...

I see everbody with their head in the sand has come up for air again! Why is that almost all the global warming skeptics with McCarthyist tendencies come from the US ?

The ignorance expressed is astonishing, all hail Mammon.

Denial is not a river in Egypt... I hate to say it but I think a lot of it is rooted in the idea that we as in America, are the best thing that happened to the planet since chocolate, and that we can do no wrong.

Closer to reality is that there is a streak in modern American funnymentalism that says that there is no point in doing anything to save the planet since Jesus is coming... Reagan's short lived Sec. of the Interior James Watt infamounsly expressed this idea when he said that "Jesus would come after the last tree was cut down."

There is the effort of such corporations such as EXXON that have a long track record of financing a, not so much a disinformation campaign as opposed to a muddying of the waters campaign manufacturing the notion that there was serious debate within the scientific community about global warming, when there is a surprising consensus.

Then there is this notion from the right wingers that if it is environmental, its liberal and Democratic and to be discounted and shunned. (and they call us liberals knee jerk)

And finally there is this notion that somehow taking care of the environment and being pro business is mutually exclusive.

And then there is a lot of just plain ignorance about science and bull headed stupidity.

Originally posted by Regenmacher

Originally posted by centurion1211
Global warming may in fact be happening. I'm just not (yet) buying into that humans are the cause of it.

You won't have any choice in the matter when the decision comes. The average US consumer has no power and is too complacent to authority. So it matters not, if you believe it or not. You will obey or be cast out.

So you have me curious, what is your plan for escaping the coming senerio? what can the average joe do to save his skin in the future industrial breakdown coming?? or is it a total climate change that will wipe out the majority living in cities. I live in the country, should i buy cows & chickens and prepare to live on my own resources.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by the_sentinal]

[edit on 2-2-2007 by the_sentinal]

Originally posted by Britguy
This is a feeling I have had for many years now. The current climate changes are a natural process, although we may have contributed to events, they are not something we can control and no amount of governmental wringing of hands and extra taxation is going to change the situation.

I cringe when I see the likes of Tony Blair telling us all to be more environment friendly and energy conscious then jets off again around the world. I sure wouldn't like to have TB's carbon footprint

oh melting of the icecaps is natural when they have been there for millions of years? bears that dont hibernate anymore in europe is natural? birds getting lost in migration routs is natural??

sounds like man made destruction to me.

So the United Nations I.P.C.C. group now says it is "very likely" that Global Warming is caused by human activities. Not exactly the dramatic climax we were hyped up for, is it? I am pleased to see others here that are open-minded enough to believe that Global Warming may just be a purely natural process, in spite of the alarmist ranting and claim of a scientific consensus that does not exist. I doubt that we humans know even 1/10 of one percent of the total mechanism of our climate. We damned well have no business trying to manipulate a system that we don't understand. Obviously, more research is needed.

I wish this scientist had been offered ten grand to oppose the Anthropogenic Global Warming line of thinking. What I write is strictly my own opinion, paid for with my own time. Research funds to prove A.G.W. are plentiful; funds to disprove it are nearly non-existent because it has become a political issue rather than a scientific one. As most likely one of the few on A.T.S. that has actually done atmospheric CO2 testing, I have been jeered at and ridiculed by the alarmists for my honest and unbiased opinions. I have no agenda and I am totally independent of all A.G.W. groups, pro or con.

In spite of implications to the contrary, I am aware of the laws of thermodynamics and actually have the First Law in my A.T.S. signature expressed in two different ways. Yes, carbon dioxide, (CO2) is a greenhouse gas as are all those that are infrared absorbers, (like WATER VAPOR) CO2 has a carbon-oxygen double bond and has a nice strong absorbance band on a scanning infrared spectrophotometer at 1,700 cm-1. Newer methods of analysis are available these days, however.

I never did mention that the Russian Academy of Science believes that Global Cooling should be the issue rather than Global Warming, did I? Most meteorologists do not believe in Anthropogenic Global Warming either. Not a single environmental chemist in my peer group (dozens) believe it either.

The Global Warming discussions here on A.T.S. have truly amazed me. A conspiracy site, the majority here are distrustful of their national government, yet when their government backs Anthropogenic Global Warming, they totally agree with that assessment beyond the shadow of a doubt. Strange creatures, these humans....


Although mine may be the minority view, I remain a skeptic for now. The irrefutable evidence I seek for human causation of Global Warming has not been presented by I.P.C.C. or anyone else.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by TheAvenger]

Originally posted by TheAvenger
So the United Nations I.P.C.C. group now says it is "very likely" that Global Warming is caused by human activities. Not exactly the dramatic climax we were hyped up for, is it?

Talk about distorting the plain meaning of language...

Originally posted by TheAvenger
...honest and unbiased opinions. I have no agenda and I am totally independent of all A.G.W. groups, pro or con.

Yet, you have no problem saying the following in advance of the report's release?

Originally posted by TheAvenger
The irrefutable evidence I seek for a human causation of Global Warming has not been presented by I.P.C.C. or anyone else.

*sigh*

That would almost be funny, if it weren't so sad.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by loam]

Ah, but some of us have seen it. Attacking my writing style will not aid your cause.

Originally posted by TheAvenger
Attacking my writing style will not aid your cause.

It's not your writing style that I'm attacking, but your logic...and perhaps, now, your reading comprehension skills.


[edit on 2-2-2007 by loam]

delawareonline.com

www.americanthinker.com...

www.cbc.ca...

article.nationalreview.com...

www.washtimes.com...

www.earthtimes.org...

Edit: Nasty personal attack removed.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by intrepid]

Mod Edit: Link format edited. Please review this post.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]

I will accept your nomination in the spirit with which it was given.

Every single one of those links lead to someone's opinion without a speck of science in them... need I reiterate that... not a speck of science in them... so what are they supposed to prove?

BTW if you cannot stand the heat stay out of the kitchen... If you do not like what I or anyone else has to say you can always chose to click the ignore button as opposed to using obscenities.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by grover]

[edit on 2-2-2007 by grover]

And The Award For Most Ironic Thread Title Goes To...

Let's please refrain from the personal insults and remember where we are.

Name-calling and other forms of ad hominem attacks prove nothing -- other than a member's inability to honor the T&C.

I know it's an emotional issue, but derailing threads this way is unacceptable and must stop.

Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

I think there already is that... although they call it the Nobel Prize.

Problem is at this point everything is an opinion. On both sides. Opinions and different interpretations of the data. So far there is nothing 100% conclusive.

Originally posted by apc
I think there already is that... although they call it the Nobel Prize.

Problem is at this point everything is an opinion. On both sides. Opinions and different interpretations of the data. So far there is nothing 100% conclusive.

and that is where we differ... from what I have read the science in pretty convincing.

In case anyone missed it, here's the first release of the IPCC's report:

Climate Change Assessment Report Summary

Originally posted by malcr
I see everbody with their head in the sand has come up for air again! Why is that almost all the global warming skeptics with McCarthyist tendencies come from the US ?

The ignorance expressed is astonishing, all hail Mammon.

It took years of media brainwashing until they dont believe in anything that doesnt make money.

Our nation has no opinion or can barely think for itself without the corporations giving them one.

The new American mantra. "WTF run amuk, as long as it makes a buck"

The funny thing is you get this mindset from people that do not benifit from the corporations stealing our future. I hear it from my brother firefighters and cop cousins all the time. Too bad so sad.

The wife (brEaDITOR) weighed in earlier in this thread, so now it's my turn.

On the subject of global warming, don't you all think that we should probably err on the side of caution and take steps to protect the planet even if some disagree with the global warming theory? Wouldn't that be the intelligent thing to do instead of arguing against it and then finding out the hard way that the naysayers were wrong?

There's a proverb covering this scenario. It has something to do with a barn door and a horse.

Originally posted by LoneGunMan
The new American mantra. "WTF run amuk, as long as it makes a buck"

Considering the US personal savings rate is at a 74 year low, it's also "WTF run amuk spend a buck as long as the credit card is valid".

Perhaps the real reason for anti-global warmers angst is they don't want to see an end to their unbridled consumerism and debt as wealth philosophy, and many corporations are all to happy that they continue to spend their way into oblivian.

The Five Stages of Global warming:
1. Denial and Isolation
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance
6. Hope

grover
and that is where we differ... from what I have read the science in pretty convincing.

I find some aspects to motivate further investigation, and frequently new data comes out that disputes existing data.

I'd agree it is wise to err on the side of caution, however with what little understanding we have of how our climate works, there is only so much that can be done while remaining true to practicality.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by apc]