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The Coming Demise of American Militias

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posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 07:20 PM
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G'day Justin,

Good Post.....Im glad to have come across and you have hit the nail on the head.

Here in Australia, we have never had a "militia" culture or need in our past, thou we have had the opportunity to legally own firearms and there is a large (in relation to our populace) number of hunters/shooters who do follow what the governments are doing and who are getting pee'd off about how things are starting to turn.

Even thou we do not have any organised militia's I am pretty sure that if the fecal substances hit the fan, they could and would be organised pretty quickly through like minded individuals via clubs and the like.

I agree that militia's have to raise their "public" profile within their communities, like a previous poster mentioned how Hezbollah, even thou labelled a terrorist organisation, has raised money and funded schools, hospitals and the like. American Militia's have to do the same thing. Raise their reputation, organise community events/shows/ have free charity activities like helping the elderly in their local communities, mow their lawns, help with disaster rebuilding programs after a tornado, the more public good they do the better the profile they will get, and the more members they will recruit/attract. Im sure there's a role for everybody within the militia's and it doesn't have to mean that because you are a member that you will be doing paramilitary training.....you might get women joining who might help organised and stockpile supplies and rations, clothing, etc.

BUT.....they must not forget their purpose whilst all the goods deeds in the community are being done. They must continue their training, both military aswell as concealment, how to fight and blend into the public almost instantaneously. How to fight and hide your weapons, then when the time is opportune return to the fight and disappear again. You cannot fight an enemy who constantly disappears and reappears.....as mentioned earlier like the IRA and some others.

Im sure the militias will see within their own ranks who they can trust more than others to undertake certain training, but then there is always the fear of being labelled a terrorist......and this is a problem the militias must overcome and educate the public that they are Patriots not terrorists, and they must adhere to the law at all times, even when at home, for anything that you do will be tied back to the militia and tarnish their reputation.

It takes a long time to be recognised for the good that you do, but only a moment of weakness to undo it all again.

Surveillance is a problem for the future.......so is technology.......the government can listen and watch what the militias are doing which is why they need to come up with electronics experts within their ranks, to jam government surveillance systems, what are those electro-magnetic pulse bombs called that fries the electronics within an area?

bring the fighting, if needed back to a basic level.....the feds have satellites, how are you going to evade being seen by that?

Justin you are absolutely correct that militia's need to adapt and modernise but this is only possible to a certain level, for if you get "TOO GOOD" you become a threat, and we know how governments dislike threats.

The other option is like Justin mentioned is to go underground and become a secret society within a community, that is willing and prepared to fight a corrupted government attack.

Then again as good a discussion this is we are in the end speculating. for unless we take part and contribute to a militia organisation we aint really doing too much for them talking here.

They have always had a "redneck" and reckless reputation and they clearly need to smarten up their profile for they look like they will be needed in the near future and they must be prepared.

Gun Law changes will put the heat on them and will be interesting to watch how they react.....wether in a professional manner and one enabling discussion and negotiation over the issue with authorities or wether they start ranting "we aint givin up our guns for nobody....."

Thanks for the post, sorry for my long response




posted on Apr, 21 2007 @ 10:45 PM
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Thanks for the detailed response. That's just the sort of thing that we can all benefit from. I'm thinking about starting another thread that would deal with the mechanics of militia operations. Anyone who has any thoughts on what I might do (topic-wise) with another thread should send me a u2 so that we can kick it around.

It doesn't matter what country you live in. Everyone benefits from detailed discussions about this and other related topics. In America, "militia" is just anotehr word for what you might think of as patriotic activism. Those of us who care about our favorite country, whatever that is, should quickly realize that patriots have a lot in common no matter where they live.

Let's be clear about just one thing. Preserving your capability to develope an armed resistence to an unfriendly government is just one of many things that interest YOU when you have patriotic motives. The most real of real conspiracies will always be the machinations of power-hungry politicians. What they do to enhance their own power at your expense is "inversally bad" no matter what system or culture you think of as "the best."



posted on Apr, 26 2007 @ 08:53 PM
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There is a militia-related discussion going on in another forum that you should be aware of. Please click the link to see it for yourself.



posted on Apr, 26 2007 @ 09:04 PM
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Some of my predictions have been very quick to come true. Federal law enforcement has recently raided an Alabama militia, and they've uncovered some very unsavory things. The media will be very quick to use this "incident" to villify the honest militias.



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 05:26 AM
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Here's another example of how Militias are Villified by the American Media:

The Militia Movement- Extreemists

This Entire article is nothing short of a Rant about extreemist. It does Nothing to acknowledge the fact that some groups are Very Patriotic Americans, who would defend our country in a heart beat. If someone who is uninformed reads this, they might think militia are demestic terrorist. Many people forget the American Militias played a Key role in the Revolutionary War.

Now you see what we're up against!

Tim



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 03:40 PM
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The unvarnished truth is that we are soon to see an increase in domestic terrorism. this will happen for several reasons. No matter what the actual cause turns out to be, we must be prepared for an increase in Federal legislation and agency activity that will exploit the situation. Elected officials and bureaucrats alike may very well find too much temptation. People with good intentions will pay their part.

In other threads, you have seen this item:

Section 311 of US Code Title 10, entitled, "Militia: composition and classes" in its entirety:

"(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b) The classes of the militia are —

(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia."

To understand this for what it is, you'll need to do some of your own homework. The battle lines are drawn. Pro-gun advocates have a lot to learn, because many legal obstacles are already in place which may not be that easy to overcome.



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 04:13 PM
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Okay, I got a stack of u2's on this, so I thought it might be worth your time to read about it here. It's very important for you to do your own homework. You've got to know that you arrived at your opinion on your own. There are a lot of civic groups that you can strike up a conversation with. I'm only going to provide one example here, to get some of you started. Sending e-mail with links to this thread is fine and well, but you've got to form your own opinions. Kowing what you think is just as important as why you feel that way.



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Justin Oldham
Some of my predictions have been very quick to come true.


Yes, very nice prediction. Does look a little fishy.

This is not meant to be an insult, just an observation of the obvious. I like what I have seen of you, you are obviously my intellectual superior, however it would seem that your prediction was flawless and your timing could not be better. I just can’t help but think back to the Viper Militia. Destroyed from within by a rat they trusted.

Please don’t take offence, most likely just a coincidence, but it is coincidences like these that can sometimes lead to the discovery of those who wish us harm and not everyone on ATS can always see the obvious.

I know I am way off, but I to bring it to light just to be safe. Sorry Mr. Oldham

BTW, I suppose that my post could be seen in much the same light, as an agent attempting to undermine your response to this issue.



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 05:08 PM
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Your concern is well founded. There are some rather interesting things floating around about me, and I know it. Do your homework and decide for yourself. I know that at some point I will have to "pass muster" with the ATS community, and I'm ready for it.

My point of view is mild, as ar my words, which leads many to be suspicious. All I can can say to that is that you don't actually have to foam at the mouth to hold a certain point of view. the most effective advocates for any position are those who can communicate with the widest range of people.

It's true that the web site that used to host my pre-ATS material is no longer in operation, but you can still find enough about me in the ATS Tinwiki to begin your own evaluations. When you get right down to it, I'm just a guy with an opinion who wants to be an author.



posted on Apr, 27 2007 @ 09:05 PM
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The unvarnished truth is that we are soon to see an increase in domestic terrorism.

Yeah, like the Virginia shooting which is a BLACK-OP, along with Columbine, 9/11, Oklahoma bombings, Port Arthur Massacre and 7/7. Increase in power abuse from the cops, rising in school shooting, mall shooting, black-op, power trips or copycats.

Mexico is militarizing, US is already militarized, Canada not so much... I think the next big thing will be in Canada, maybe after the other bilderberger Stephane Dion will be elected, I hope he won't be in a majority so he can't move a lot, except if something big is engineered. Canada must be militarized before the NAU, the US is already and Mexico on the verge.

[edit on 27-4-2007 by Vitchilo]



posted on Apr, 28 2007 @ 06:12 PM
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There is no question that the U.S. Federal government is becoming increasingly hostile toward the population it is supposed to represent. In the face of this growing totalitarianism, those who advocate for civil liberties of all kinds must positive, well-mannered, and even-tempered.
If we do not win this fight, our words must stand the test of time so that future generations whom look back on what we did might be swayed by our reasoning.



posted on Apr, 28 2007 @ 11:31 PM
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In comment on an earlier thread, if you chose to look for it, I spoke for caution where someone else seemed more rash, IMO. I too take these portents seriously, and think our liberties are under attack as never in the history of this nation. and yet, as all patriots, I will stay my hand till there is no other recourse. I am gladdened to hear another voice of reason.

Even so, we must be prepared, and to this end I feel you have made a significant contribution Sir. For image alone cannot withstand the onslaught of war, and make no mistake, it is war of which we speak. A war that we hope to avoid, but prepare for nonetheless. Backbone is required in such matters. Let no one deceive themselves, if it comes, Heaven forbid, to such straights, then men will perish once more for the sake of freedom.

Therefore it is on the shoulders of each who would feel such a call to be worthy of the challenge. This means more than the ability to fight, it also means the purity of motive and the willingness to place those you fight for above your own needs.

In the past men even of low character have had great following by the use of largess, both monetary and otherwise. As a case in point, look at the lengths to which the outlawed James brothers were aided, despite their obvious ways. A recent example is the way 'biker' clubs have improved their image, including the notorious Hell's Angels. These are examples of two sides of the same coin. Namely ingratiating your organization to the community as a whole.

No organization exists in a vacuum. To be a viable force you must have the support of at least a good portion of the population in the area where you expect to operate. This is best done through charity and a strong moral image. And that image cannot be false, as such will be soon be noticed. Strong ties to the community at the lowest levels is the only way to obtain the support that in a crisis would sustain a militia in confrontation with a federal force.

A firm and long standing relationship of community involvement to the point of some forms of social benefits to the needy, especially when those same benefits are denied or curtailed by the federal organizations, will build a bond between the militia and the community to such a point that the militia will become accepted above the 'far away' state.

This requires that those involved in militias be truthfully openhearted and giving people, caring for the welfare of those around them. While there need not be an open book policy as to membership, this would require an office corresponding to a PR branch.

I will in the future follow your thread with interest, and offer my opinions as seldom as possible. I am sorry for the long post, but this is an issue for which I have much feeling.

I feel another flag is due.



posted on Apr, 29 2007 @ 12:15 AM
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I know I've said this a lot lately, but I'll say it again. I'm not participating on ATS to hear myself talk. If WE are going to fight this conspiracy and win, YOU need to do the talking. All good conspirators know that an idea is most powerful when its about the goal. When it becomes about the people who talk about the goal, you're wasting your time.
I can point things out, but I can't do this all by myself. Even I am not actually that good.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 04:33 PM
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Justin has taken the first steps for us by highlighting the problem. Now it is our turn to act! There are many things we can do to help save our malitias:

1. Spread the word: It's time to reach beyond ATS. Talk to family and friends, show them why this issue is so important to our country. Let people knw why we have malitias. People won't fight for something if they don't understand what it's for.

2. Pay attention to politics: Don't let a fast taking politician surprise you down the road. Know what's coming.

3. Execrsize Your Civil Rights: Remind those in power that you know what rights you have, and that you are willing to hand them over without a word of protest

4. Inform yourself: The more you Know, the more power you Have!

Tim



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 04:43 PM
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We're all looking forward to the summer months. As we make the most of time with our friends and families, we will be sorely tempted to turn off the t.v. and ignore the news paper. That's fine and well for the short term enjoyment of what we hold near and dear, but we really shouldn't forget that while we live and love, some of our leaders will remain committed to courses of action which are not good for us.

I'm not asking anyone to agree with me. I am asking that you do your own homework...just in case. As we approach July, many of you will be having patriotic thoughts. that's good, but I still don't want you to merely take my word fow all this second amendment "stuff." The conclusions you draw on your own will matter more than you think.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 06:29 PM
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Justin, per usual you have brought some insight into a subject that I hold dear. There is not much doubt in my mind that there is an effort by the "powers that be" to disarm the citizenry and especially these group we call militias.

It seems to me that this effort intensified with the botched raid on Mt. Carmel and the Branch Davidians. From that point to the present, there has been an ever increasing move towards the disarmament of the American public.

Here is a typical purpose for a militia


Earlier this month a plainspoken gentleman of Arizona named Chris Simcox announced that a citizens' group he founded—the Tombstone Militia—was about to undertake the function of protecting his state's and the country's borders from invasion.
Militia's purpose

Now, without getting off topic, it's obvious that the federal government has/is and most likely will continue to fail at securing the nation's borders. This is not even an issue of illegal immigration. This is an issue of our nation fighting against terror organizations and continuing to allow its borders to remain open.

Militias, some at least, want to fill the gaps that the federal government has so miserably failed to fill.

Another aspect to this whole issue is this one, which could very well happen within our lifetime and some would argue is already in the beginning stages of occurring. There are an increasing number of people who believe that the U.N is going to wind up being given an overseer position in national affairs. In the mind of many of these individuals, what better way to do such a thing than to first disarm the resistance. I couldn't agree more.

While others would argue that such an event is not likely to occur, I am awfully suspicious of any government, particularly my own, that would disarm or attempt to disarm its populace.

[edit on 17-5-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 06:47 PM
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I'm glad to hear that new groups, such as the Tombstone Militia, are still forming. It's important for their leaders to understand that as they build these groups, they will be 'checked out' by Federal agents. The only way to evade unjust prosecution in this day and age will be these groups to act with open hands and clarity of purpose.

No, that wasn't a poor choice of words. I did mean to say "evade unjust prosecution." Its a given fact of life in today's hostile world that any civic group which seeks to openly champion a Constitutional provision will be challenged in a court of law. Federal agencies may do this. Special interest groups may do this.

As outlined in my book, your concerns about the United Nations are valid. I sitll hope to find a permanent publisher so that i can get it back in to print. If all else fails, I may go in to e-books. the simple fact remains that our poliitcal and social elites are on the verge of achieving total power, and they know it. Whatever the need to sacrifice along way is...forthem...just part of the cost of doing business.



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 06:53 PM
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Originally posted by Justin Oldham
the simple fact remains that our poliitcal and social elites are on the verge of achieving total power, and they know it. Whatever the need to sacrifice along way is...forthem...just part of the cost of doing business.


True. Most of them have come so isolated from what it is like to be an average citizen that they rarely, at least in my opinion, consider the impact of their decisions. It's really unfortunate.

The last two presidencies in this country have been atrocious. I can't help but think that it's not likely to get much better, especially looking at some of the current candidates. The ones that might do good for the country really don't seem to stand a chance. While those that do, such as Giuliani,McCain, Clinton and Obama aren't what this country needs in my honest opinion.

That's a bit off topic, but you made a comment that I concur with and I had to respond.



[edit on 17-5-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 06:54 PM
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I had a question, is the minute men or that group that guards the border against illegals also considered a militia?



posted on May, 17 2007 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by laiguana
I had a question, is the minute men or that group that guards the border against illegals also considered a militia?


Here is their website. I wouldn't necessarily classify them as a militia but some would,I suppose

Minutemen



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