Well some of them are dead sexy. But I was talking about the ones who actually live there. You know all veiled up in some places, or they are so poor they can't take a bath.

All nations did terrible things in the past. The British used to support pirates. The Spanish had the Inquizition. The French elected DeGualle. Stalin killed 20 million in his "purges". The Chinese still do not allow religious freedom.

Let's stop looking for an ideal world and work to realistically improve what we have, which is the best system ever.

I find this to be a intersting post. When you get down to it this country refured to as the united states has as well as any other country has always rewrote history to meet its own goals. Afterall Ignorence is the downfall of man. So will it be with what is called civilization. Also when you look at how many people really care about history there is far few and little amounts in between. This being the case one can conclude threw observation that those that dont know history are bound to repeat it.

Just food for thought.

Falcon.

Well actually, even those that do know history are bound to repeat it. You can't try and tell me that Adolf, Joseph or Saddam don't or didn't know history....
yet they made those mistakes anyway.

Next you'll say we should have never bombed Japan.

I must say that bombing Japan wasn't the smartest thing we've done in our nation's history. While it did save a few million lives at the time, it has helped destroy them otherwise. A pure fact of the Hiroshima bombing is that everything in the world is radioactive. While not extremely radioactive, it still has some radiation coming from it. This includes humans. Can you also guess why the situation with cancer has gotten so bad? It's not all from smoking, I'll guarantee you that right now. It has yet to be proven, but my guess is that Hiroshima, in creating all the radioactivity in the world, also assisted in causing cancer to pop-up more frequently. Just another great example of our government doing something without pondering every possible consequence of their action. "Let's bomb the Japanese with an A-Bomb and if it causes major problems in the future: 'It's not our fault!'" The problem is: most Americans believe this... our government is run by complete idiots [who we (the electoral college) elect, so I begin to wonder if we're all that intelligent, after all], and supported by facists (mainly veterans) who believe that America is perfect because they defended it. Because of the respect veterans demand for attempting to die for their country, American citizens think it is mandatory that they believe them. "They fought for the government, and since the government runs our country, they must all be right!"

Wow, I really drifted off of the subject (I think)...so I'm just gonna sit back and wait for the critisizm to hit me right in the eye...

Well for one, not everything in the world is radioactive. Only elements from lead on up are radioactive

I guess you are saying, that the world has been showered in radiation, but with the amounts there would be that would be a good thing, actually it may very well be the reason that the whole northern hemisphere's average life span is close to 70?

Research done has shown that a "minute" amount of toxins (including radiation) is good for you. And guess what, the Japanese have the longest average life spans in the world. Could this all be due to the minute amounts of radiation dispersed into the world by a nuclear bomb?

I think that is an equal possibility. However I don't think the whole world has been irradiated, so it might not be the sum of all reasons, but it is definately something to think about.

Sincerely,
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If we never bombed Hiroshima, and Nagasaki WWII might have gone on for a long time. Japan would have fought until they were all dead.

.....yeah right! They would have surrendered eventually.

Uhh... No the Japs fought back then to the death. It was a dishonor to surrender in combat.

LOBO, that is junk science. The two bombs dropped that brought an end to WWII were nothing to the following testing conducted by both the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. If the two bombs created the radiation to which you refer, the ensuing detonations would surely end all life, huh?
You are aware that radiation is a natural thing, right? You receive higher doses of radiation from walking on a concrete sidewalk on a bright summer's day than you do from anything else today (provided you aren't a nuclear power plant employee who is sloppy with the waering of proper protective equipment).

Tobbacco certainly has a radiation threat associated with it but that is due to the chemicals and processing changes which make the radioactive elements cling to it, not because of the bombs dropped on Japan in the '40's.

It'll be ok. There are plenty of things to get you nowadays, you don't have to reach back into the past that far!

BTW, what is the point to this thread? Were we just in the mood to throw a rock at the country? What lose association does this have with projects and prgrams?

It is impossible for us to understand such devotion as the Japanese exibit even to this day. To us serving your country is blowing up the bad guys, and getting back home to get laid (in a crude way) to the Japanese (especially during WW2) serving your country WAS DEATH...there was no other way, to live in battle was a dishonour as well. Dying was the greatest glory they could give to their emperor, and were happy to give it.

I think really this whole thread was started even, for the only reason that WE have lost a sense of "American Identity". Ugh it is the saddest thing really that I think about it.

America was a greater nation before WW2 than after...not in might, but in spirit, Americans before WW2 loved THEIR country, and no other nation had a reason to say we "sucked". After WW2 (it took a few decades but it came) we lost that Greatness Identity, we lost our feeling that we were destined to free the world, and we lost our heritage.

I blame this on Political Correctness more than anything. Being "American" would be racist, now we have to give proper respect to all nations.

Oh well, if only people would talk with veterans of WW2 more, and search in the heart of our nation, what it really is to be american, and maybe we could all fix this.

It is amazing how many high school students don't even know who our enemies were in WW2...

Sincerely,
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Amen to that FM!

Why is it that if I start whining about the embargo on Iraq, people will nod and listen to me, but if I say "let's go in there and liberate those people!" or "We're the best thing that ever happened to this world!", people will call me a right-wing bigot.

Funny how a guy who supports the world court can be a right-wing bigot. Just shows you how incredibly out of touch the European left is.

AMERICA IS A GREAT COUNTRY

It seems that most of the world has forgotten what America has done and continues to do for the bettermeant of mankind. Why does everyone forget the burden the US has shouldered in the last 60 years ?
The Europeans it seems have lost their spine in a quagmire of political correctness. They should not be asking themselves ' what's the best way to get the political upper hand over the US ?'. They should be taking action and not hoping the US will take care of it whilst they sling sh!t behind her back.
Americans believe in themselves, all the negative press comes from overseas, and quite frankly I'm sick of it. People may be scared but their spirit is intact. Which is precisely why the sooner action is taken against the entities which threaten the free peoples of the world, the sooner we can engage in the bettermeant of all mankind; and at the moment the only country qualified to lead, is the US.

You make a good point there.

I have never seen the New York Times, Time, The Washington Post, CNN, or any other major press entity in America question our core values as a people, and I think that, if they did, they would probably suffer badly from people boycotting them.

[Edited on 11-26-2002 by ~iluv2act~]

frankly the us has fallen very far from where they once were. we were the first (techincally the athenians were the first) modern democratic country. we set the example for everyone else to follow. we forged the path while everyone else followed.

look at us now, wal-mart, jerry springer, pat robertson, racists, political correctness. to mention a few. what are we doing now? liberating countries from the terrible yoke of dictatorship? aaaggghhh!!!!!!

that is only what the government tells us sheep to keep us happy and proud to be american. my god. has anyone read 1986 george orwell, does it ring a bell, this is what is happening. not on such a large scale but still, lets be honest, we need an enemy, what happened after WW2 after we had no one to hate and started to question the government, what is that, commies and their mind controlling borscht. then when we began to question that? VIETNAM. and after the fall of the USSR we had Iraq, then terrorists and Milosevich, now iraq again! WTF!

im ranting, but my point is that without something to hate america begins to question itself and what happens when the answer is that we are just an outdated, obsolete figurehead lumbering around, trying to grab scraps of lost glory.

Sorry...


XAOS

xaos, as much as you think the US is such a "bad" place to live in, there are other countries out there that have it worse. There are countries where people are starving, and their own governments are killing their own people. You should be very lucky to be living in the US." we need an enemy"? You are wrong on this. Yeah I agree WW1 and Vietnam could have done without us being there, we didn't need to fight those wars, but WW2 was a different story. Someone had to stop Hitler and it seemed like Europe couldn't have done it without our fresh troops, and plus we were sort of dragged into it after Pearl Harbor. Even if Pearl Harbor didn't happen I think Europe would have needed us anyway. Now with Iraq, this is something that has to be taken care of much like WW2. The lunatic has WMD and is a potential threat to the US and its allies. Knowing Bush, I doubt we will try to "negotiate a disarming resolution" with Saddam and will go to war. I just hope we come up with some plan to prevent the WMD from killing our troops. The first WMD he uses will lead to a nuke by us, and WW3....

I think questioning your nation's motives and policies is healthy for a democracy, it has been done since our inception.

The problem now-a-days is, that liberals (generalizing for easiness sake, actually they are the "oppressed minority") do not agree with what our nation has been doing and such, but rather than debating it healthily, they act all desperate-like and claw the eyes out of any supporters.

I think it is because they ARE such a minority, that this happens. But we see it everywhere, because of the emmense grouping that is able to be done by these minorities.

They don't all agree on everything like everyone else, but they are minorities in some way (gay, communist, environmentalist, teenager) so on...but they all share a common belief of supporting Iraq, and giving Saddam a box of chocolates.

This makes the supporters of blowing saddams "small" head off (and I don't mean the one he thinks with either ) the minority.

So now we have a bunch of people, desperate for different reasons, being a fairly large group of people (technically they aren't the majority because about 50% of Americans don't give a crap about most anything), and so consequently we have a lot of eye gougers out there, who rather than rationally debate...just want to stab you with anything you happen to say to support it. And this verbal abuse is getting annoying.

I saw a website that was devoted to teaching people out there (targeting kids) how to properly bring up the Iraq issue at Thanksgiving, and then how to spout out endless drivel that can "look" like facts, if no one bothers to research it out.

Such as the 1.5 million Iraqis death, it claims it is our fault, no it is Saddams fault for not building the required infrastructure to help his people, instead he builds war machines.

AND AT THANKSGIVING!!! This has led me to forever vow, that at MY thanksgivings, the only thing said will be family stuff, and jokes and the only prayer said will be George Washington's Speech on Thanks Giving....and NOTHING ELSE!

I'll be damned if my kids become a bunch of heathens who would rather surrender than save their democracy.

Ugh I think today is my rambling day, probably because I have more pressing things on my mind, and am trying to do this on the side or maybe it was the fact I was nearly blown off a mountain by 100+ mph winds.

Man...the whole valley of reno was a dust storm, and now, an icy rain has commeth Ahh i love the power of nature. I'm still picking sand out of my teeth, ears, and eyes

Sincerely,
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[Edited on 15-12-2002 by FreeMason]

First off i'm aware that there are many places that have horrible conditions. i wasnt saying that america is a bad place to live. I have been living overseas for the past five years and I am quite aware of the many benefits of american life and i enjoy them every summer when i come home. I was more referring to the thing that have sprouted up in the idleness and lassitude america is experiencing. Living overseas has given me a different perspective on things. I see how america has lost touch with its roots and how it is seeking to impose its will on the rest of the world. just because iraq has WMD doesnt mean that they will use them against the us, or even use them period. look at us, we have every type of WMD, are we using them against our enemies? England has them, France, Israel, India and pakistan have them too. Saddam recently apologized for his actions in the gulf war too. What will iraq do with their weapons, huh? i mean is there any conceivable use that he has for them? Shouldnt america finish up its war with terrorism before jumping into another.

On the terrorism topic, america is being outmanoevered by these small terrorist cells. It is the new style of war, and if america cant adapt to it they will be severly hurt by them. Just as the old formation based battles were replaced by defensive and guerilla warfare, these are being replaced by terrorism.

Most of the world doesnt support a war with iraq and the ones that do are mostly coerced into it by america. Even the countries surrounding iraq, the middle east, the countries that could aid our battle most are uncooperative.

Dont get me wrong, its not like i welcome saddam with open arms, no, he is a ruthless tyrant who is oppressing the population of his country. I have talked to iraqis who fled hussein and the want to see him removed. but we are going about this in the wrong way and if we mess up here it could lead to the decline of america's power and support.

XAOS

Xaos, it is my belief you can not adapt to terrorism without sacrificing all that we stand for. All that we can do is either kill ALL the terorists//Make them see that causing us pain will not be benifitial to their cause//more effectively to just ignore them, they only want attention//or to de-islamify them as I put it (this only works for middle east terrorists).

After WW2 we de-nazified Germany, by occupying it, outlawing nazism, and FORCING them to accept democracy for over 30 years. I demand that we do the same to the Middle East. We occupy every nation there, Saudi Arabia too, outlaw anti-americanism and the like, fundamentalism, and force them to become democratic.

Sincerely,
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no offence FM but this is what is causing me so much disturbance. "force" them to stop hating us, to accept democracy? that goes against the very rules of democracy itself. The USA is oppressing nations opposed to it, just as Saddam is oppressing his own people. Why can't these countries be anti-american, they have every right to. this is one of the reasons that the us is hated all over the world. we are coming in and telling these countries to accept our doctrine and to be subservient, in doing so we destroy the sense of national identity the country once had, look what is happening in the countries we take over and subjugate. while some are success stories, in most places our emplacement of democracy has led to corruption and crime among the government. Japan (while it is a success story) has the yakuza, a wide brancing criminal orginization with ties to major politics and industries across japan. Russia (not a success story) has the Russian Mob, a wide brancing criminal orginization with ties to major politics and industries across Russia. This has happened in most places we take over. Look at afganistan, the country was unified, and there was (relative) peace. Now there are many factions vieing for control of the country and war between tribes has broke out again. These countries are tuned capitalist and lose the cultural identity they had before. and I admit, much america hating draws from jealousy when we flaunt our wealth, and america does do aid work and they do improve countries, but there still is an obvious gap between america and the rest of the world, with the exception of countries such as germany, france and switzerland.

XAOS