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Rivera picked up a rock, according to Judd, and cocked his arm to throw it from about 10 feet away.
The agent, a former Marine, says he killed Rivera with a single shot when he failed to answer commands to put the rock down.
"Assuming he had a stone, should you shoot somebody who picks up a stone?" asked Francisco Gaxiola, an attorney for the Mexican consulate. "If the witness statements are true, it was totally unjustified. There was no reason to shoot Rivera. He had his hands up. He was not threatening anybody."
Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Border agents got to be tough, no doubt. But if he already had three in the car, and this one picks up a rock, why didn't the agent blast him in the leg or try to shoot him in the right shoulder or something? Did he have to kill him? You tellin me the mexican guy is going to still try to throw a rock with a bullet hole in him, bleeding profusely? Somehow I doubt that.
These guys need to do their job under extreme circumstances, for sure. But the way that article presents it, it seems like excessive use of force to me. It'd be different if the illegals were ALL armed or something. But nuh uh. I feel he needs to be prosecuted, and least let this go to trial. Enforcement agents have to use extremely good judgement every day, and they are trained to do so. But maybe there is more to the story than is being published. And given that it is FoxNews, I have no doubt there probably is.
Originally posted by jsobecky
This failure to secure our borders is one of the most blatant failures of this Congress and administration.
Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Border agents got to be tough, no doubt. But if he already had three in the car, and this one picks up a rock, why didn't the agent blast him in the leg or try to shoot him in the right shoulder or something?
Originally posted by Regenmacher
Law enforcement is not trained to wound. When you fire a weapon in self-defense, you aim for center mass. That John Wayne wing'em stuff is a good way to end up in the boneyard. You're more apt to miss a limb and/or not stop the attacker.
If the border patrol agent shoots the immigrant's leg, then he still can get clunked in the head, his weapon taken and used against him....there's no second chance. Aim for center mass.
Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Excessive use of force. Sorry, but that's just me on this. Live with it.
The agent, a former Marine, says he killed Rivera with a single shot when he failed to answer commands to put the rock down.
"This rock, if it hit you in the head, can kill you," Judd said. "If not kill you, incapacitate you. And that gives the alien access to your sidearm. We have to escalate to a force greater than the alien is using."
Originally posted by TrueAmerican
nah, it's totally cool intrepid. But lemme ask ya what you think of this:
If it was me in that situation, and I had three guys already in the car, and only one seriously resisting, and he picked up a rock, I would have fired first in the air or real close by to him, and maybe even fired at his hand to show I meant biz. Now if after that he didn't get the picture, and picked up another rock or something, game over. Yer dead.
Originally posted by TrueAmerican
nah, it's totally cool intrepid. But lemme ask ya what you think of this:
If it was me in that situation, and I had three guys already in the car, and only one seriously resisting, and he picked up a rock, I would have fired first in the air or real close by to him, and maybe even fired at his hand to show I meant biz. Now if after that he didn't get the picture, and picked up another rock or something, game over. Yer dead.
It would be very interesting to hear the other captive's stories on this, to see if they jive. And I really don't trust Fox any further than I can throw a rock, hehe. And I'm not the only one jso.
Originally posted by Regenmacher
It's best not to pick up a rock and bumrush a law enforcement officer or your likely to be shot....that's how it's always been.
Originally posted by TrueAmerican
If it was me in that situation, and I had three guys already in the car, and only one seriously resisting, and he picked up a rock, I would have fired first in the air or real close by to him, and maybe even fired at his hand to show I meant biz. Now if after that he didn't get the picture, and picked up another rock or something, game over. Yer dead.
20.8 Warning Shot. Warning shots are not permitted.
elips.doi.gov...
Originally posted by TrueAmerican
But I disagree that that's how it's always been.
All I'm really saying is that it would be more equitable if enforcement didn't pull out a gun and fire at every dude with a rock. That you can probably avoid if thrown, even at yes, 10 ft.
(ii) Deadly force may be used only when a designated immigration officer, as listed in paragraph (a)(2)(iii) of this section, has reasonable grounds to believe that such force is necessary to protect the designated immigration officer or other persons from the present danger of death or serious bodily harm.
usborderpatrol.com
TWENTY ONE FEET IS WAY TO CLOSE!
It is common knowledge that a suspect, armed with an edged weapon and within twenty-one feet of a police officer presents a deadly threat. Why? Because the “average” man can run that twenty-one feet in about one-point-five seconds; the same one-point-five seconds it will take that police officer to recognize danger, draw and point his weapon, and then pull the trigger. Even if the officer manages to get the shot off, and even if it hits the suspect; even if it instantly disables the suspect, the blade is going to be so close to the officer that the suspect’s momentum may continue forward with enough force for the edged weapon to end up injuring the officer anyway.