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Doomsday Cult attacked in Iraq

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posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 11:22 AM
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today.reuters.com...

U.S. and Iraqi forces killed some 250 gunmen from an apocalyptic Muslim cult on Sunday in a battle involving U.S. tanks and aircraft near the Shi'ite holy city of Najaf, Iraqi police, army and political sources said.
More info in article

Fascinating. First, that a new militia could pop up right under the military's nose, plotting a major attack on the Ashura is disheartening, even if they were defeated. But the devlopment of the cult is what is really interesting. I suspect that we will see lots more of this sort of stuff, especially when/if the US pulls out.

The cult leader is called "Ahmed Hassani al-Yemeni" (doesn't this mean he is a yemeni though?). The cult is called the Army of Heaven. al-Yemeni has apparently in the past claimed to the the un-occulted Imam Mahdi Mohammed, and apparently Sadam Hussein had twice arrested him for this. Apparently now, more interestingly, he has claimed to be a reincarnation of Ali himself!


I don't see anything stating the he specifically was killed.

Cult members were originally described as Sunni gunmen, and reports are still confused, but apparently they were a mix of shias and sunnis.

I suppose its only a short time before we see black flags marching west out of Khorasan eh?


[edit on 30-1-2007 by Nygdan]




posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 11:38 AM
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not surprising. Imo if anyone has the right and conviction to believe in Apocaplyse and Doomsday, it the people in Iraq and Iran and surrounding areas of the middle east. It's already been "doomsday" fulfilled for many of them and it's only threatening to escalate further.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 11:43 AM
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It reminds me of the so called "Mad Mahdi" of the sudan, to a degree. It also reminds me a little of the Bahai movement, at least in so far as he is saying that its a fulfilment of muslim scripture. It would be interseting to see just how they intend 'reincarnation' to mean too, if they are moving out the bounds of the regular practices of mainstream islam and advocating something different.

This battle coud end up becoming a 'pivitoal moment' in a completely new faith, which would be interesting. Apparently they were claiming that the shia leadership in Iraq are false, and because of that, deserve to die, so they were going to carry out attacks during this Ashura event. Which is doubly interesting, given that these guys were shias in the first place, AND that there WERE attacks during the event, carried out by other groups.

Although its not really 'funny', it kinda reminds me of the multiple jewish reistance groups from Monty Python's Life of Brian, all running around at the same event.

Anyway, the death toll could've been much larger. ANd if word got out that it was caused by a new cult, who's leader claims to be Ali, no doubt there'd be regular citizens running over to their orchard to kill them.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 11:45 AM
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There are a lot of creepy Muslin Cults out there. I guess every religion has them, Christianity included.


President Ahmadinejad of Iran is allegedly a member of a group known as the Hojjatieh.



Defenders of the faith claim Hojjatieh's views centre on the belief that the return of the Mahdi, the 12th Shi'ite Imam, cannot be hastened, but that such a return is an impending physical event. The corollary that only then can a genuine Islamic republic be established, earned them their persecution under Khomeini. These supporters assert the view that they believe in spreading chaos in order to hasten the return of the Mahdi is a misunderstanding, and allegedly spread by critics of Ahmadinejad to attempt to make him appear dangerous. Those who adhere to this perspective claim Hojjatieh is a millenarian group who put great stock on the return of the Mahdi and the idea of such a return bringing happiness to true belivers. Such beliefs are in Iran generally associated with superstitious, working class and peasant Muslims and so are derided and looked down upon by the traditional Sh'ite hierarchy, whether conservative or reformist.


The president may or may not be a member of this organization. But it doesn't speak well when he is building roads and infrastructure in anticipation of the messiah's return. It's just another piece of the puzzle that is Iranian intentions.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 12:14 PM
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Reuters had reported him killed.

Another Reuters report put the members killed at 263 and 502 wounded or captured.
Here

Quite a stunning amount of cult members/militants gathered for the ambush...something as large as the one attacked had to have been noticed.


mg



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 12:22 PM
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Is there anything other than those stories that address this topic? Specifically, I am looking to see whether this event will have any effect on the larger insurgency. It would shed light on exactly how "Muslim" they are.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 12:35 PM
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I don't know if the group can be said to be 'unmuslim'. Lots of people in islam have claimed to be the mahdi and such, though being the 'reincarnated Ali' seems unusual.

Also consider that the rulers of syria are Alawis, a sect that is not considered to be part of the muslim mainstream. There are actually a lot of groups that are considered quasi-heretics by the sunnis and shias.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 02:37 PM
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I don't know if you can call it a doomsday cult.

en.wikipedia.org...

news.yahoo.com...


Based on the information released, the cult numbered in the hundreds and may have included some Sunnis. Iraqi officials identified the leader as Diya Abdul-Zahra Kadhim, 37, a Shiite from the southern city of Hillah who was killed in the fighting. Some Iraqi reports said he wanted to unleash violence to force the return of the "Hidden Imam," a descendant of the Prophet Muhammad who disappeared as a child in the 9th century.

Shiites believe the Hidden Imam will return to restore peace and justice to the world at a time when the Muslim community is in the gravest danger. Some officials suggested the leader considered himself the Hidden Imam.

In Basra, a Shiite cleric said the "Soldiers of Heaven" is the armed wing of a movement led by Ahmed bin al-Hassan al-Baghdadi, an obscure Shiite cleric also known as al-Yamani. The movement believes the return of the Hidden Imam is imminent. The cleric spoke on condition of anonymity because he did not want to be identified with Shiite factionalism.


To me its just another belief involving violence. Whos better than the other.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 03:29 PM
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The Occulted Imam is a doomsday figure, his return is like the Second Comming of Christ, he's a messianic figure.

FWIW, al-Sadr also picks up that black flag in naming his militia the "Mahdi Army". When the Mahdi appears he will, like christ, take command of an already existing army of the faithful, and exterminate the wicked. BUT, al-Sadr isn't exactly saying that the 'end is nigh', whereas al-Yemeni was, if he was claiming ot be the Mahdi.

Claiming to be a reincarnation of Ali is especially interesting, and I don't know if he was saying, I am the Mahdi/Qasim, AND a reincarnation of Ali, and thus the End of Days is here, OR if he was just saying No I am not the Mahdi, rather it turns out I am a reincarnation of Ali and this isn't the end of the world.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 03:35 PM
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the people attacked were known as: Jund al-Samaa, Soldiers of Heaven,

the leader took the Title & name: Mahdi bin Ali bin Ali bin Abi Taleb

the Iraqi army decided to attack them at Najaf
the second city of Muslim/Mahdi significance is Kufa
(which the prophecied returned Mahdi must again battle his enemy in)

The timing of the Bush strategy to attack Iranians who are in Iraq...
And the Islamic Republics closing its border to Pilgrims going into Iraq
is just 1/2 weird.
...the other half weird timing is the Shias Holy pilgrimages and the Islamic Republics both prsently celebrating something which lasts 10 days.

the Ayatollas began the '10 Days of Dawn' thing back at the Islamic Revolution in 1979, now with the borders closed, and the Iraq/USA forces determined to arrest or kill any Iranian insurgents/pilgrims, the timing is a classic case of the US again shooting-itself-in-the-foot-syndrome.

...and Iran gets to keep the homebound fundamentalists in place to 'energize' them, and possibly to stir up the emotions of the large numbers of the Revolutionary Guard, & the 'Bassij' arm of the IRguard, (some 40,000) who have a history of being willing 'cannon fodder' or walking in minefields so troops can follow, or strapping on their 'martyr vests' and going to their assignment

at least that's what i've been reading, hearing, over the internet
i haven't bothered to get the URLs or site addresses

[edit on 30-1-2007 by St Udio]



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 04:28 PM
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Originally posted by missed_gear
Quite a stunning amount of cult members/militants gathered for the ambush...something as large as the one attacked had to have been noticed.


Yeah, seems as though they were noticed, that's why they're dead or captured.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 04:38 PM
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It's funny to me how the word "cult" gets thrown around. Today's "cultists" are yesterday's "heretics." All a cult is is a set of beliefs that doesn't conform to doctrine.

What mainstream religion doesn't want you to know is that it too started out as a "cult." Can you imagine what Christianity must have appeared as to Judaism when it first sprang up? Islam and Christianity are both derived from the Judaic tradition... What is a "cult?" It is derived from a previous set of beliefs..

The media throws this word around as if we are supposed to cower in terror everytime we hear it.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 05:40 PM
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Apparently these fighters wanted to kill all the Shiite clerics in Najaf in order for the prophecy to be accomplished. Now I don't understand why the killings of Najaf clerics fulfills a prophecy, but apparently there were over 1,000 fighters and many of them escaped. In fact some of them have been reported wearing uniforms of Iraqi Security Forces.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 06:22 PM
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Taking into consideration that the gunmen were Sunni and so many die I wonder how Saudi Arabia and other majority Sunni nations will see this deaths.

Will some complains will be issue? I wonder.

As with everything in the nation of Iraq right now, is hard to see how taking side in this civilian now conflict going on is going to aid our troops safety in that nation.

We have Shiite militias and we have Sunni insurgency, so I still can not come to terms to understand who is the people or tribe that our nations is trying to protect or help when many Shiites are not happy with the their own government and Sunnis . . . we know why they are fighting for.


What a mess.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd
Yeah, seems as though they were noticed, that's why they're dead or captured.


Really?

My point was really that it would be impossible to have that many people involved and have the plot kept quiet…it wasn’t…the Iraqis may have known about this plot for months in advance…yet waited...why?


Maj. Gen. Othman al-Ghanemi, the Iraqi commander in charge of the Najaf region.
…Al-Ghanemi said the group is considered heretical by mainstream Shiite clerics and had been planning for months to attack Najaf during the Ashoura ceremonies. Source


mg



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 12:27 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Taking into consideration that the gunmen were Sunni and so many die I wonder how Saudi Arabia and other majority Sunni nations will see this deaths.

They'd probably welcome it. THe cult would be bizzare as a sunni cult, what with its leader saying he is a reincarnation of Ali himself, and/or the Mahdi. Those are more in line with the Shiites. True enough, it could attract sunnis too.We have Shiite militias and we have Sunni insurgency,


so I still can not come to terms to understand who is the people or tribe that our nations is trying to protect or help

Don't forget the assyrians, mandaens, yezidi, iraqi jews, and who even knows how many small cults/sects of islam, given that this one popped up out of nowhere.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 05:49 AM
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Both Sunnis and Shias believe the Mahdi (The Hidden Imam) will return on The Day Of Judgement alongside Jesus, and in the last days fight the Antichrist or false messiah (Dajjal) and will bring peace and justice to the world.

Where Sunnis and Shias disagree is one their characteristic descriptions of the Mahdi.

It is possible, if it is true that 'Soldiers Of Heaven' was compromised of Sunnis and Shias, that they believed the only way to bring about The Day Of Judgement where peace prevailed was by attacking not only the Shias at Najaf (If that was their aim) but also the Sunnis elsewhere too, to incite the sectarianism further to such an extent that they felt the Mahdi and Jesus would have to come back to stop it.

In other words, they may have wanted to stop the Sunni-Shia fighting by making it worse enough for The Day Of Judgement to arrive so the Mahdi and Jesus could fight the antichrist, the 'true' enemy. (Be it America, Israel, or false prophets, perhaps the thinking being Al-Sadr and Bin Laden, one Shia, one Sunni.)

This is very odd to me, as Sunnis and Shias have an ages old division that has existed for centuries upon centuries.

It could be, that some fringe Sunnis and Shias may see that only by bringing forth a unification, can Islamic militancy not be divided and peace prevails.

This is something we should all keep an eye on, because if this movement takes hold, we may, just may be witnessing a new chapter in Islamic history-The uniting of Shias and Sunnis in a religious pretext at a time of bloodshed.

And this is something that has not happened since the years of The Prophet Muhammed, when the split arose over who the successor should be, leading to an Islamic Civil War.

[edit on 31-1-2007 by Regensturm]

[edit on 31-1-2007 by Regensturm]

[edit on 31-1-2007 by Regensturm]



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 09:25 AM
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this news report should shed a new & brighter light on the propaganda about a 'doomsday cult'...

see: news.independent.co.uk...
Titled..."US 'victory' against cult leader was 'Massacre"


if this news report is closer to the truth, then my earlier comment of,...
its another case of the US shooting-itself-in-the-foot-again,
is more correct in a way i didn't imagine



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 09:56 AM
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Interesting, but like everything that comes from our side of the government, the attack will be stay justified the story will not change and the rest is pure speculations, so . . . one more victory for coalition against the evil insurgency, terrorist and now cultish freaks.


Don't you love it.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 05:25 PM
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Assuming that the "cult" in question is a new insurgent group and not just a current group attempting to mis lead coalition Intel it is sign that that the approach to creating a secure Iraq clearly hasn't and wont work.

As for the leader of these nuts it wouldn't surprise if he came from Iraq or another country in the region. All of Iraq's neighbors want a slice of the pie as well as influencing the future of Iraq. Why anybody thought it was a good idea to plant an army in a region where it would be surrounded by hostile regimes I will never know.

While there is nothing wrong with taking on the insurgents the US military needs to put its ego aside and learn how to fight a counter insurgency war. There are other problems as well little or pressure has put on the insurgent groups supply lines but thats what happens when you bite off more then you can chew.



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