The awfull truth about Scientology

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman

This thread has taken the turn from slander and libel, to religious hate speech.

Religious hate speech is illegal.

I don't feel I've been either in this thread, but I would like to know what makes Scientology so special to throw such a fit about that eps.? I am not knocking your train of thought? I just want to understand, from your point of view.

Sorry but IMHO no free-thinking individual can afford to believe anything the Church of Scientology publishes, given the highly fallacious biography they cooked-up for Hubbard...

Originally posted by JessicaS

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman

This thread has taken the turn from slander and libel, to religious hate speech.

Religious hate speech is illegal.

Where has it been designated that religious hate speech is illegal? So long as one can back up accusations, to which numerous reports do support the case of illegal acts committed by Scientologists in the name of their religion, what has been said here is neither slanderous nor libel. Slander and libel are illegal, however saying something hateful is not, so long as it can be backed up. Plus it is difficult to enforce, and doing so only gives greater amusement to whoever is being challenged.

Scientology like most cults ( and it is a cult ) is bred around isolation of the individuals involved, high entrance costs, as well as severe backlash by the community if a member leaves.

Here's a view from scientology straight from a former member, someone who should know more than us:

youtube.com...

[edit on 30-1-2007 by CAConrad0825]

Originally posted by kickoutthejams
Hey I'm all for freedom of religion but Scientology more than most has shown it's sinister side.

Not really.

Lets see off the top of my head we have Pedophile priests, a report that states that 85% of U.S. dioceses report embezzlements. In 2000's mass of pardon the pope asked for forgiveness for the sins the catholic church like fin against the people of Israel (not speaking up against the Nazis), for sins committed against the rights of people of other cultures and religions (murder, torture,forced conversion, etc..) for sins against the dignity of women(Misogyny of all sorts) and for sins against the unity of the human race. And this is just the Catholics.

This is all verified, now contrast with the secondhand info, conjecture, and stuff from disgruntled former members. You have to take those with a grain of salt.

I'm afraid pointing the ills of other religions just doesn't wash and it's really no form of defense for scientology.

I'm a very open minded person, I looked at scientology with an open mind. I'm even a sci-fi fan. But it's not all unbridled conjecture and disgruntled former members. These were real deaths with real people, suicide notes laying the blame squarely at the feet of scientology. People held against their will, mistreated for their conditions by quacks. L. Ron himself was a compulsive liar, his military career alone raises enough warning flags. He was just the sort of social misfit anti-social that he railed on about.

It's a pyramid sales scam, dressed up as a commission only 'religion'. It breaks people down starting with the personality test and reconstructs its members into pliable, fanatical drones and empties their pockets.

If that's your thing then go ahead and have a party with it. Don't force it down other peoples throats.

L. Ron was an idiot, he made idiots out of his flock. Tom Cruise is an idiot.
L. Ron showed contempt for everyone, his family, his superiors in the Navy, his scientology minions. The whole movement is one big joke. And a very bad one it is.

One thing about Ideas - they change and evolve.

Many beliefs and life philosophies began in odd or "sketchy" ways.

What is Scientology TODAY? Would be my only question.

It apparently works for a lot of people - - that would be my basis of understanding.

I live in the Current.

to be quite honest, before all the Tom Cruse being a Scientologist thing, i always thought of "Scientology or Scientologist's" as being more of a, lets say what a person would say to a "Nerd or Geek" in school times of otherwise. for instance "Oh i study Scientology" as a jeer or insult kind of thing. after that i always thought, what a silly name for a religion


anyways, this is quite obviously a Cult, rather than a "religion" of a more traditional sense. its not like i can see another heavens gate anywhere close by, but whether that slide show thingie was true or not, it goes to show that they are a bunch of greedy scammers with a powerful legal team on hand. for instance, the case when one of the members had a mortgage on her house when it was free of debt, then the Scientologists tapped into it. she ended up selling her house after a bunch of then threatened her.

and all this about disregarding psychology is silly IMO. the part about that wonan, her name escapes me, but she had a minor accident (car crash) and afterwards, ended up walking around naked and had a condition of a psychological nature, yet the Scientologists took her to a hospital 40 minutes away simply because one of the staff was a Scientologist, though she ended up dying en-route due to extreme dehydration's and malnutrition. i think that is how it goes, but mostly along those lines anyhow. i think she ended up having only $155 in all her accounts when she died, having spent like 50,000+ dollers on self improvement courses and so forth.

[edit on 31-1-2007 by funny_pom]

This link is very beneficial in understanding a key concept of Scientology:
www.youtube.com...

These links are great:
www.scientology.org...

www.whatisscientology.org...

www.scientologyreligion.org...

And my personal favorite:

thinkexist.com...

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman

This thread has taken the turn from slander and libel, to religious hate speech.

Religious hate speech is illegal.

To understad the strong fear pouring out of this thread, this will be valuable: www.scientologyhandbook.org...

Scientologist maintain a complex set of secrets, which include their inner belief system, finances, organizational structure, and assets. The leaders of Scientology make little or no effort to engage in interfaith dialogue, or to participate in public community events, or to even make themselves readily available to the press or members of their local community. Do not wonder why your religion is subject to intense scrutiny and speculation.

In this country, religious hate speech, as with almost all other speech, is protected by the Constitution. We are free to criticize and de-bunk whomever we feel like. I know that your team of attorneys would like to change that so that our criticisms do interfere with your bottom line, but that's too bad. I'd would say go find another country to find your converts, but alas, it seems you are just as unwelcome in most other western countries as well. In fact, in most European countries have labeled Scientology as a monetary institution engaged in business, and not a bonafide religion. It's ironic then that the one place in the world where you feel so much criticism is also the one place where you are the safest.

I believe you are confusing "fear" for distain.

I have read your handbooks. They are fit for sheep, and to some extent you must find them useful. The lin you provided wisks the reader away to a beautifully designed website for your "religion". However, it fails a fairly basic litmus test in my book for serious religious beliefs.....it fails to mention anything about God.

Wake up. Do you hear me? Wake up.

Hi, saw this post on the anonymous forum.

Posted by anon_92910 on 30-01-07 @ 10:01 PM

This anonymous post is in response to ATS thread: The awfull truth about Scientology

It took me 4 years to get them to stop sending us literature and calling our home, after I decided to stop taking Scio courses.

During my phase of taking courses I was often encouraged by indirect suggestion, to leave my wife and meet someone within the church who believed.

I was also surprised how many of the smoke like chimneys. When going clear, you start with your 1st dynamic - which is SELF. This means you get to the point where you're engrams about you are audited out and you are cleared. But the whole purpose of being clear is to no longer do actions that will harm your "SELF". Why do they keep smoking then, all the "clears" I met.

When I quit the church, a scio minister, called me 3-4 times per week for a month trying to get me to come back down to the "org". I finally had to get nasty with him and tell him to beat it (oh yeah, that was after this supposed "clear" yelled at me and told me I was being STUPID for quitting). I have never met a minister before him or since, that screamed at their own members.

They say they don't do programming. Not so. The whole process of auditing is very similar to a hypnotic regression. They guide you back into your memories and stimulate and trigger the release of painful memories. These auditing sessions get you hooked because after a release of the bad memory, one experiences a euphoric feeling. Natural opiate like high. Feels good, but gets you hooked on going through the sessions. They follow this up with constant mental drilling on their philosophies and course work to "brainwash" or program into Scio talk (they use their own sort of scio language).

It is not a good deal. If you know of anyone considering Scio tell them to run for the hills!!

Originally posted by IamnomanasIamallman

This thread has taken the turn from slander and libel, to religious hate speech.

Religious hate speech is illegal.

To understand the strong fear pouring out of this thread, this will be valuable: www.scientologyhandbook.org...

Ahh an implied threat. Your a good scientologist. Gonna sue ATS next? Or are you going to send a petter to my employer telling them I'm a child rapist? (I say that not to be mean, but because they have done that before.)

Better yet you can tell me where religious hate is illegal.

You yourself obviously have little regard for what the church teaches, or you wouldn't be here.
Your "church" will label you an "SP" simply for talking to us, even if you are arguing. Don't yell at me, good ol El-Ron himself made that rule.

Speaking of El-Ron, lets take a look at a couple of thigs hes ON RECORD as saying, shall we?

Italics are my words.

"Scientology is used to increase spiritual freedom, intelligence, ability and to produce immortality.",
He said this shortly before he died. In fact can anyone show me ONE SINGLE immortal scientologist?

"Somebody some day will say ‘this is illegal.’ By then be sure the orgs [Scientology organizations] say what is legal or not."

"If attacked on some vulnerable point by anyone or anything or any organization, always find or manufacture enough threat against them to cause them to sue for peace."

"The practice of declaring people FAIR GAME will cease. FAIR GAME may not appear on any Ethics Order. It causes bad public relations.
This P/L does not cancel any policy on the treatment or handling of an SP."
So the "Fair Game" policy was never canceled, just the term was.

"A truly Suppressive Person or group has no rights of any kind and actions taken against them are not punishable."



"In any event, any person from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale should not have, in any thinking society, any civil rights of any kind, because by abusing those rights he brings into being arduous and strenuous laws which are oppressive to those who need no such restraints."
"There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow."
"Unfortunately, it is all too often true that suppressors to a creative action must be removed before construction and creation takes place. Any person very high on the Tone Scale may level destruction toward a suppressor."
he is saying if your not a scientologist, you deserve ZERO rights

"A Venezuelan dictator once decided to stop leprosy. He saw that most lepers in his country were also beggars. By the simple expedient of collecting and destroying all the beggars in Venezuela an end was put to leprosy in that country."
yikes

"THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN CONTROL PEOPLE IS TO LIE TO THEM. You can write that down in your book in great big letters. The only way you can control anybody is to lie to them."

"Scientology...is not a religion."

"This [Scientology] is useful knowledge. With it the blind again see, the lame walk, the ill recover, the insane become sane and the sane become saner. By its use the thousand abilities Man has sought to recover become his once more."
Yet one of the "church"'s leaders is currently dyeing of cancer.

"Scientology is the only specific (cure) for radiation (atomic bomb) burns."

"I’d like to start a religion. That’s where the money is."

This is a SMALL example. Theres hundreds more , you want me post them all?



[edit on 31-1-2007 by Tiloke]

www.sc-i-r-s-ology.pair.com...

Google David Miscavige
Google Sherman Lenske
January 24 is celebrated as Dead Ron Day, Or The Day The Freezer Broke, by the cynical and heartless.

30 years ago a roommate had a collection of manuals for clams. I picked one up at random, flopped it open and read the Fair Game policy.

Why they're called clams: In their bizarre cosmology, billions of years ago, we were all clams. We all feared the prospect of being picked up by a seagull and dropped on a rock. Which is why humans fear heights. Barnacles grew in rows on clamshells. When the clam baked in the sun, the barnacles would explode. Which is why, when you are under stress, you feel like your teeth are going to explode...

I think we hold birds in awe simply because they can fly. It's an awsome skill to have, and us humans are envious not afraid. It's the next step to be able to fly around, and a frontier that begged challanging cause we are an ambitious species and want what others have.

We are afraid of birds cause we were clams. clams that had no concept of the existance of birds with no ability to know that they were being picked up by birds. They just know that they are being picked up and thats it. no fear involved. Shows the stupidity of L Ron.

He assumed that he was smarter than everybody and that nobody would be able to judge the contents of the religion cause he was so damned smart.

This is the results of my "Personality Test"....

Funny, how if everyone has these problems, some more than others, why they deemed I require no treatment.

PWNING SCIENTOLOGY

To the MODS: This thread is innacurately placed, as Scientology is not a secret society, but a tax exempt religion with that status granted by the IRS and open to the public. This thread belongs in "BTS" (Belowtopsecret.com).

To the negativity:
It's really ok; you have nothing to be afraid of. No one is going to hurt you.

*on a personal note, tiloke I loved how you said COS would label me a suppressive for standing up to libel and religious hate speech. My honor is on the line to do this. If anything, one day i'll get a pat on the back-- and know that above statement to tiloke is really for others, tilokes condition (Tilokes admitted condition: www.scientologyhandbook.org...) is blocking him from understanding what my above statement means.

Note: i'm not going to respond to anything I have read in this thread in terms of debate. There is not one clear, correct, or truthful statement other than what I have supplied as personal opinion and the information contained in my stated websites. I have delt with many of these types, and they won't stop in this context we are operating in (internet).

Therefor, debate is insensate. And education comes from those viewing this thread-- and looking at the websites approved by the Church of Scientology for your interest and study.

Scientology helps-- bottom line. And Scientology is never going away no matter how scared criminals become with it's presence.

You want the truth; this is the only way to get it:

www.whatisscientology.org...

www.scientologyhandbook.org...

www.religioustolerance.org...

(Tilokes admitted condition: www.scientologyhandbook.org...) is blocking him from understanding what my above statement means.

Excuse me? My admitted condition? What "condition" is that? You need to choose your words carefully here. Lie about me again, ill post the letter My employer received form your "church" proving what kind of lies your scammy "religion" says about us "SP"s

And Yes, I have OFFICIALLY been branded an SP by your so called "church". That happened when I realized it was a scam and demanded my money back after my first "audit". They actually called the police and had me removed from their building for wanting my money back. They said I could If I wasn't happy with the results.


You want to know what your "glorious church" is really about? Ask for your money back. Even if you don't mean it. See what they do.

And yes , el-ron did make it "illegal" for scientologists to converse with us SPs.


From el-rons own pen.

An SP is a no-confront case because, not being in his own valence he has no viewpoint from which to erase anything. That is all an SP is.

He said so himself, A no-confront case. Your breaking the rules of your "god/man" even mentioning my name.

Damn, your a good scientologist. Attack those that dont agree with you right?

Average converation with a good scientologist goes like this;

Critic: So, what's this about Xenu, the Marcabs, nuking souls in volcanoes and showing them bad movies?

Co$ Spokesperson: I... don't know what you are talking about.

Critic: Can you just tell me about Xenu, then?

Co$ Spokesperson: Uhh... Those are confidential materials. Say, didn't I see your face on a "Wanted" poster for molesting young children? Maybe I should call the police and turn you in.
(thank you clambake)


IamnomanasIamallman, Now I'm going to try to kill you, close your eyes if you don't want to die.

Once upon a time (75 million years ago to be more precise) there was an alien galactic ruler named Xenu. Xenu was in charge of all the planets in this part of the galaxy including our own planet Earth, except in those days it was called Teegeeack.
Now Xenu had a problem. All of the 76 planets he controlled were overpopulated. Each planet had on average 178 billion people. He wanted to get rid of all the overpopulation so he had a plan.
Xenu took over complete control with the help of renegades to defeat the good people and the Loyal Officers. Then with the help of psychiatrists he called in billions of people for income tax inspections where they were instead given injections of alcohol and glycol mixed to paralyse them. Then they were put into space planes that looked exactly like DC8s (except they had rocket motors instead of propellers).
hese DC8 space planes then flew to planet Earth where the paralysed people were stacked around the bases of volcanoes in their hundreds of billions. When they had finished stacking them around then H-bombs were lowered into the volcanoes. Xenu then detonated all the H-bombs at the same time and everyone was killed.

The story doesn't end there though. Since everyone has a soul (called a "thetan" in this story) then you have to trick souls into not coming back again. So while the hundreds of billions of souls were being blown around by the nuclear winds he had special electronic traps that caught all the souls in electronic beams (the electronic beams were sticky like fly-paper).
After he had captured all these souls he had them packed into boxes and taken to a few huge cinemas. There all the souls had to spend days watching special 3D motion pictures that told them what life should be like and many confusing things. In this film they were shown false pictures and told they were God, The Devil and Christ. In the story this process is called "implanting".

When the films ended and the souls left the cinema these souls started to stick together because since they had all seen the same film they thought they were the same people. They clustered in groups of a few thousand. Now because there were only a few living bodies left they stayed as clusters and inhabited these bodies.

As for Xenu, the Loyal Officers finally overthrew him and they locked him away in a mountain on one of the planets. He is kept in by a force-field powered by an eternal battery and Xenu is still alive today.

That is the end of the story. And so today everyone is full of these clusters of souls called "body thetans". And if we are to be a free soul then we have to remove all these "body thetans" and pay lots of money to do so. And the only reason people believe in God and Christ was because it was in the film their body thetans saw 75 million years ago.

Are you still alive? But el-ron said reading that would kill people instantly instantly. Hmmmm




[edit on 31-1-2007 by Tiloke]

What is most disturbing is the fact that this 'religion' has been gaining momentum in the last while via celebrities who advocate possitive reassurance with this type of thinking.

It turns my stomach to think that a mere human being like L. Ron Hubbard had THAT MUCH influence on people with his inane ways of thinking.

With that in mind, his legacy lives on and STILL perpetuates his insanity via courses/lectures/et al.

The scientologists are FEAR mongers and their only goal is to quash ANY belief that is not 'like unto them'.

Pay thousands or perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars to find out the ZENO God of their beliefs? - No thanks.

To read about their ways of being 'CLEAR' and accepting their 'way of being'?

To read about our fellow humans being hoodwinked? To the point of LOSING THEIR LIFE'S SAVINGS AND MOST IMPORTANTLY : THEIR LIVES OVER THE RELIGION?

NO THANKYOU.

This is a No-Brainer

To anyone reading-- i'm sorry but I do find this fun so I have to...

Originally posted by Tiloke
Excuse me? My admitted condition? What "condition" is that? You need to choose your words carefully here. Lie about me again, ill post the letter My employer received form your "church" proving what kind of lies your scammy "religion" says about us "SP"s

I believe the answer you are looking for, your condition, is what you go on to divulge...

And Yes, I have OFFICIALLY been branded an SP by your so called "church". That happened when I realized it was a scam and demanded my money back after my first "audit". They actually called the police and had me removed from their building for wanting my money back. They said I could If I wasn't happy with the results.

You got kicked out of the Church via POLICE ESCORT!! Wow... lol.

You want to know what your "glorious church" is really about? Ask for your money back. Even if you don't mean it. See what they do.

Why would I ask for my money back when I know 100% it's results. Even during rocky times, I never asked for money back nor wanted to-- and I have a lot invested.

And yes , el-ron did make it "illegal" for scientologists to converse with us SPs.

I'm not conversing with you because we don't have affinity, reality, or communication. I'm standing up for freedom and silencing lies, deceit, suppression... whatever you wanna call it today. This thread has been read by close to two thousand people-- I will not back down soldier.

From el-rons own pen.

An SP is a no-confront case because, not being in his own valence he has no viewpoint from which to erase anything. That is all an SP is.

He said so himself, A no-confront case. Your breaking the rules of your "god/man" even mentioning my name.

What that means in my understanding is that you as a suppressive can't confront your case-- because you're not in your own valence. You would do yourself a favor by looking up what those words mean and clearing them using course materials.

Damn, your a good scientologist. Attack those that dont agree with you right?

You are imagining an attack. The one you are mad with isn't here right now.

Average converation with a good scientologist goes like this;

Critic: So, what's this about Xenu, the Marcabs, nuking souls in volcanoes and showing them bad movies?

Co$ Spokesperson: I... don't know what you are talking about.

Critic: Can you just tell me about Xenu, then?

Co$ Spokesperson: Uhh... Those are confidential materials. Say, didn't I see your face on a "Wanted" poster for molesting young children? Maybe I should call the police and turn you in.
(thank you clambake)

I actually wouldn't be suprised that you, with your admitted SP declare, have infact wanted to, or actively engaed in, the above activities in full.

But who am I to judge? You've already been judged. Have a good day...

Then why have you not addressed the evidence that I have posed? It was from the official website of the organization in question, and it disproves L. Ron's theory. I am human, and I have never received treatment through dianetics nor have I ever stepped foot near a Scientology facility. Yet I have somehow proven myself not to require treatment that all humans require some degree of. Especially coming from a broken family, never seeing my birth father for 15 years and not to mention receiving psychiatric counseling, the methods of Scientology are debunked, through their own methods, as you call them.

In order to truly understand a subject you must be able to look at the other side of the issue. I am not defending those using Youtube videos made by people who were duped into paying thousands to this religion as many call it. Anyone who sacrafices their funds for the cause of another does so willingly unless mentally ill, under the age of concent or intoxicated.

However, the Church of Scientology has abused the rights of tax exempt organizations, harasses former members and yes has been suspect in numerous wrongful death cases, which they have settled for undisclosed amounts. The other religions of the world have blood on their hands as well, and so long as this religion meets the criteria set forth under the definition of Cult or secret society:

Main Entry: cult
Pronunciation: 'k<
Function: noun
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents

Main Entry: secret society
Function: noun
: any of various oath-bound societies often devoted to brotherhood, moral discipline, and mutual assistance

it will remain in this thread and I will continue to refer to it as such.

What that means in my understanding is that you as a suppressive can't confront your case

Your "understanding" doesn't mean squat. You have to go by what god/man himself meant, not what you think.

Ive linked this thread in an e-mail to co$ to let them know about your little collaberation with us SPs in breach of their rules.

[edit on 31-1-2007 by Tiloke]