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Youngest Sex Change Operation Initiated - 12 Year Old Child

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posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 03:33 PM
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Trans gendered is not the same as transvestite or gay as I understand from my friends who "suffer" LOL. Trans gendered is KNOWING the penis or vagina you were born with is wrong.

Hermaphrodite is a person born with both reproductive organs. Normally one is a dud and thus doctors usually will perform surgery to remove or close off the disfigured organ as soon as possible. In rare cases both sexual organs are functioning or at least well formed enough that the risk of making an error is greater. Most doctors in those cases would opt to allow the child to continue life with both and make a choice later in life. Unless the parents intervene and make the choice themselves.

Sex ed in school. What a great concept...but as I have raised a kid I can tell you I see more and more obligations of parents shifting to the school system and I don't think this is an issue NOT for the schools (who are understaffed, under budget and really not intended to be surrogate parents). Sex ed in grade school for my daughter was boring...she had already been taught the birds and bees at home. Surprisingly most of her class mates HADN'T...so clearly sex ed in schools isn't the answer, as most of my daugter's friends still asked her about certain things...comfort levels, cultures etc etc. I suppose if parents aren't bothering then someone's gotta right?

god always crashes the best threads huh? oiy vay.

Theology aside, imagine a world where parents once again took interest and understanding in the kids they bring into the world rather than dump the responsibility on the schools and ultimately the kids themselves to "figure everything out".

No surgery till she's 18.

She'll wear a regular bra (griff you silly
).

Yes she'll still grow an adams apple however it's genetics that decides the size, the hormones won't alter that much only the vocal chords.

If she misses her estrogen therapy for even a few days, she will experience a resurgence of testosterone. She will have to continue with estrogen therapy for life if she chooses to live as a woman in part or in full.

As for the tab being picked up by the german folks....hum gender reassignment surgery is often covered by some private insurance programs in the US as well as government programs. In Canada under special circumstance it can be almost entirely funded under MSP.

We pay taxes on all kinds of things we don't like and we ourselves would never use.




posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by justgeneric
Trans gendered is not the same as transvestite or gay as I understand from my friends who "suffer" LOL. Trans gendered is KNOWING the penis or vagina you were born with is wrong.


Oh, crap! I'm sorry, I just wrote that without thinking. I'm an idiot.


Edit: Oh, wait, I did say transexual. That's right. I thought maybe I had said transvestite by mistake.

So.. Never mind!




[edit on 30-1-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 03:44 PM
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LMAO Benevolent....

my lesbian friend once sat me down and told me all about alternate orientations.

Transgendered - male in female body or female in male body
Trangendered gay/lesbian - male in female body attracted to males or visa versa (this one seemed pointless but it is apparently a recognized gender issue)
Transvestite - heterosexual male or female who likes to appear as the opposite sex.
Transvestite gay /lesbian - self explanatory
Gay - male orientated to males
Lesbian - female to female
Bi-sexual - swings both ways with a usual "preference" for one or the other.

There is another as well but...damned if I can remember it.

Sorry this is off topic slightly...point is with nearly all gender "confused" people they state that they've known since early childhood. Many go through the motions of living as society would prefer...many don't.

I think as a species we should be able to handle these differences without tearing each other part and lobbying for god to smote them all. he he he...



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 03:47 PM
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Deus_Brandon, you did bring up interesting points about how we are and we are here, and possibly made the way we are, so we can deal with what happens in this life in front of us.

i choose to play safe with god, and leave it at that. i to think that we are the way we are born, to help us to deal with what we have to face in life. of course it is not for us to know what is going to happen, but i do think that you should at least have an eye on what happens after you die. just because society says it alright now to be gay, whether society is right, is open to question.

like i said earlier i choose to play safe, and know that sometimes the way things are, is just the way they are meant to be for a reason.

thats why i find it confusing why they let this kid do this at 12, but heck we do not know the context of his situation, and thats his life. i wonder what he will feel like when he has to show his birth cert to prove his identity in the future, people will obviously ask him why he was a boy, and now a girl

for me the world is just heading in that direction, of moving away from anything to do with god. whether that is a good thing or not, it is happening.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by justgeneric
Trangendered gay/lesbian - male in female body attracted to males or visa versa (this one seemed pointless but it is apparently a recognized gender issue)


that made me laugh. lol


do they have terms for everything in the category of sexuality prefernces



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by andy1033
i choose to play safe with god, and leave it at that. i to think that we are the way we are born, to help us to deal with what we have to face in life.


Why should your belief in your god have any impact on the lives of a family in Germany?


There has not been a change of gender physically, regarding the genitalia of this person. There has only been a change by the injection of hormones, to where this girl will grow up as an adolescent in the same manner as other girls, ie. an actual bust.

If a guy goes to school every day, and wears a dress and make-up, will the school even allow the student to attend? If that same guy does indeed go to school, and is beat up every day, because he knows he should be a female, yet everyone else wants to punch him up, is that the guy's fault?

Or would it be easier to erase the stigma, let her develop the way she feels intent on developing, and let that be an end to it?

I know many trans individuals, and they all tell me about how they knew they were the wrong gender from a very early age. So I must ask, would we prefer the mental hardships based on the individual because they must continue to be a "boy" when they know that's wrong? Just to satisfy your god? Who in the world are you to think you can throw smack down on a 12 year old because you don't agree with what they're doing, because your god says so?

I am just flabbergasted that this would even come up like that.


If a boy stuffed his bra every day, and wore make up on weekends, would there be the same generated anger?



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 04:12 PM
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niteboy82, you have taken what i said wrongly, i am talking about how i feel. i am not making a refernce to how others and namely this boy feels.

there are things in life that are menat to try us, and put us through hard times. whether doing this to a 12 year was good for him, only time will tell.

i just meant you feel alot better in yourself, if you are happy with the way you are. whether he rationalises it as this sort of thing i do not know, but i to , know that even though society may not want some sort of people, the individual feels alot better when he oe she, admits it to thereself. whether it is for them to go through this, is upto them, i am just saying, i would not do it, and yes, i am talking about religious issues.

not all trans what ever go to the steps, of a sex change(which i assume is what he will do when he gets older). what stops everyone like that from doing this. maybe society, or maybe there inner belief in god, who knows, but i was not trying to put this kid down, he may have enough problems of dealing with his feelings already.

one question, how does this kid goto school, we all know how tough school can be for every one, but to do this and that age, does he even goto school. we all know about things like gay bashing etc..



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 04:16 PM
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This is nuts. 12 years old is not nearly old enough for this kind of decision. The fricking lunatics are running the show for sure! He is not old enough to make a decision to drink, smoke or drive a car but can grow breasts?

People make mistakes about sexual orientation all the time. This is why I am against trying to ram it down everyones throat about being born one way or another. Some people are not born gay and because of nurturing and outside influence sometimes "make the desision to be gay". I have seen it happen and it has happend throughout history.

I can see why the extreme right wing movement came about! Just a bit too liberal for me!


I am the typo king, not the Earth King!


[edit on 30-1-2007 by LoneGunMan]



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by andy1033
one question, how does this kid goto school, we all know how tough school can be for every one, but to do this and that age, does he even goto school. we all know about things like gay bashing etc..


I'm not going to answer this because it has already been answered in this thread. If you would read you might find the answers to your questions.


B. I'm glad you can accept things the way they are in your life. Do you, though, have a certainty in your heart and your mind and every fiber of your being that you are a woman, trapped in the body of man? If not; if you feel like a man and you have the genitals of a man, then "being happy with the way things are" is no big task, is it?

If you knew in your heart of hearts that you ARE a woman, you might feel differently about being happy and content with what God gave you.



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
If you stay inside of God's will then he will not allow these things to happen to you ...


I can appreciate you opinion, but that all it is. I personally believe God doesn't put people through anything. I think that type of thinking is a little narrow (no offense what so ever) I God does these things, then he must cause car crashes and disease and every bad and good thing on 1 of a billion of planets. I think we think we are bigger and more meaningful then we actually are. Then again....

With your opinion in mind.
Still go with the Birth Defect argument. If God causes these are we supposed to help and fix the problem? or are we to let the baby born with his/her heart out of there chest, be and not help. I see no difference here. and as one reply from a gay man stated, "I have never felt like a girl" this is a scientific/medical issue.

It just has to do with Sexuality so every freaks out, if this was a disease or a person born with 3 arms, this wouldn't be a discussion.

Again just my humble two cents

[edit on 30-1-2007 by ShiftTrio]



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
My initial reaction is 'how the heck can a 12 year old know anything at such a young age', and yet, people who later have the operations done say that they've known even since they were little children. If anything, that seems like a good arguement for it, they know while they're even juveniles.


As someone said, gender reassignment surgery (in case of hermaphroditism) can be done at a very young age.

My daughter (who is a lesbian) told me she was aware that she was at a fairly early age. I think in part her awareness grew because of the attitude of her peers that homosexuality was something terrible. Rather than be attracted to whomever, the experience for her was heightened because of the social pressure that her feelings made her a "monster" in their eyes.

And sexual drives and sexual awareness hits us all at different ages. Remember that the onset of puberty varies from nine all the way up to 14 or later (I was one of those late bloomers.)



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 07:58 PM
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I'm a little confused at some of the posts labeling this a 'birth defect'. Is there any scientific evidence of this or is it merely opinion?

The definition of birth defect is: Any harmful trait, physical or biochemical, present at birth, whether a result of a genetic mutation or some other nongenetic factor.

So, was this childs penis a genetic mutation? If so, then he should naturally get his menstrual cycle, which would prove he does indeed have a birth defect.

My opinion would be that if you are born with the anatomy of a male, then indeed you are a male. There may be some outside influence (maybe mom treated him like a girl) that alters the individuals perception of what they are, creating the 'I'm the wrong sex' line of thought.

I don't know, it seems to me then, that the same can be said of a person who believes they are a black woman trapped in a white womans body. Would that also be a birth defect? If no, why not?



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 08:37 PM
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Certainly a good point, and defect is a harsh word, sex isn't determined in the embryo till week 6 where if a Y chromosome is present it will turn on the process that give the fetus male Hormones. If the X is present or the Y isn't the embryo with become female, and this is by a process not fully understood. My point being about defect would be some where in that process something went wrong and more what O mean by defect. There are studies that show boys born with no penis and in turn no testes or there genitals are deformed and gender reassigning is done. almost 90% still feel there are boys and all ways act like boys suggesting its determined in the womb. Of course this study was done on Male born babies who were raised as girl. Of course this is as I stated in my post My humble opinion.


www.pbs.org...



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 09:16 PM
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Originally posted by sky1
I'm a little confused at some of the posts labeling this a 'birth defect'. Is there any scientific evidence of this or is it merely opinion?


I believe this is the post to which you're referring:



This person was born with the wrong parts bottom line, its a science thing IMHO. a birth defect if you will.


It was an opinion. S/he said "IMHO" (In my humble opinion).


I get the impression s/he was suggesting to think of it as a birth defect "if you will". He was trying to open another poster's mind, I believe. I seriously don't think there was any insult or ignorance intended.


Transexuality is not a birth defect any more than being gay is.



My opinion would be that if you are born with the anatomy of a male, then indeed you are a male. There may be some outside influence (maybe mom treated him like a girl) that alters the individuals perception of what they are, creating the 'I'm the wrong sex' line of thought.


Do some reaearch. You'll find that there is a multitude of tests and studies on the subject that discount your theory. In fact, boys who act like little girls usually get the "treat him more like a boy" treatment in an attempt to "masculinize" him. It doesn't work.



I don't know, it seems to me then, that the same can be said of a person who believes they are a black woman trapped in a white womans body.


Gosh, I've never heard of that. Is there such a thing?



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 01:36 AM
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What about this?



society.guardian.co.uk...

I was six when I first became aware of my desire to lose my legs. I don't remember what started it - there was no specific trigger. Most people want to change something about themselves, and the image I have of myself has always been one without legs.

To the general public, people like me are sick and strange, and that's where it ends. I think it is a question of fearing the unknown. I have something called body identity integrity disorder (BIID), where sufferers want to remove one or more healthy limbs. Few people who haven't experienced it themselves can understand what I am going through. It is not a sexual thing, it is certainly not a fetish, and it is nothing to do with appearances. I simply cannot relate to myself with two legs: it isn't the "me" I want to be. I have long known that if I want to get on with my life I need to remove both legs. I have been trapped in the wrong body all this time and over the years I came to hate my physical self.

As a teenager, in the privacy of my own home, I used to play by myself at being an amputee. I would pretend I had one leg, strapping the other one up behind me and wearing oversize trousers so there was no shape. I knew even then that it wasn't normal, that it wasn't something to share with friends or my parents. But, trussed up like that, I would be quite happy and satisfied for a while.


For those in favor of this sex change procedure for a child, how do you feel about the above? It seems to me that they are very similar, no?

I appreciate all the responses so far though, I've been reading them with interest.


(Edit to add) - Thanks BH, for pointing out the thread title - I've changed it now.


[edit on 31-1-2007 by WyrdeOne]



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by WyrdeOne
What about this?



society.guardian.co.uk...

I was six when I first became aware of my desire to lose my legs.


For those in favor of this sex change procedure for a child, how do you feel about the above? It seems to me that they are very similar, no?


Interesting you went down this way WyrdeOne and also found a link.

Because today while I was at work I thought along the same lines.......

I used to be in the Fire Brigade,after about 7 years into it my mum showed my girlfriend and myself family baby pictures,as mum`s love to do,one photo was of myself sitting in a fire engine ride for kids,ya know the ones you put coins in and other photos of myself with toy fire trucks that I had no idea about.

I have no idea if I was influenced by these things or by my parents influencing them onto me.I wonder what would happen if they gave me dolls to play with etc.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 02:27 AM
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I guess the thing that bothers me about all this is that while at the moment, these are isolated incidents and we're shaking our heads in disbelief.

What if one day it becomes the norm? What if 20 or 30 years down the road this just becomes an everyday thing. It may sound rediculous now but stranger things have happened.

Morals were mentioned by a poster earlier on, what about just plain old common sense.




Body Identity Integrity Disorder? Who the hell comes up with this stuff...sorry folks if I'm coming across as a little old fashioned and I'm sure there are some genuine but rare cases.
Look at the whole ADD industry, yep the kid's hyperactive quick get the Ritalin.
Change that to: The kid's got BIID, off with a limb!
Scary stuff and pray it never comes true.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 03:00 AM
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body dysmorphic(sp) is actually, from a psychological standpoint vastly different from transgendered-ness.

There are classifications and "scoring" done in the psychological field to determine conditions and severity of those conditions IF found.

In body dysmorphic (like wanting to be legless) the person has a morbid facination with self mutilations. I've met a person who suffered this MENTAL ILLNESS and it was not pretty. They could not control it and would find immense satisfaction in cutting, gouging and attempting to carve off fingers...it started in their early teens and they did not have a clue in early years that they wanted to be stumpy fingered, or that the sight of their own gaping wounds would hold such amusement for them.

Apples and oranges. They aren't even in the same text book.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 03:12 AM
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Originally posted by madhatter
What if one day it becomes the norm? What if 20 or 30 years down the road this just becomes an everyday thing.

20-30 years later.......

"Mummy when I grow up I want to be an elephant".

"Ok Johny let me speak to your father".

Frank!!! "Johny wants to be an elephant,I think he is one trapped in a boys body".

"Aright Deardrie Lets go see what the Doc can do."

Doc,Our Little Johny is an elephant trapped inside a boys body.

Yeah? Let me take a look!

Say ahhh Johny,"EEEERRRReeeee" (elephant noise)

Do you like peanuts Johny? "mmmm EEEEERRRRReeeee"

Umm? just a thought Frank does Johny ever hold onto fido`s tail and walk behind him?

Yes!,yes he does Doc!

Looks like a servere case of Body Identity Integrity Disorder to me, if I`ve ever seen one.

And I think he`ll be a much happier elephant than he is a boy.

We`ll need you to make a deposit so`s we can begin the procedure straight away.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 03:17 AM
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What about child suicide?

I suppport an adult's right to decide to die, but I don't support the same right for children, does that make me a hypocrite?

I also support the right of a woman to choose to be a prostitute, but I would sooner eat my own weight in cow manure than allow any child of mine to pursue that vocation.

We have to respect the rights of adults to make up their own minds, but do we have to support that right for children, in general?

Is that really changing?




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