Youngest Sex Change Operation Initiated - 12 Year Old Child

Originally posted by Griff




I'd say the damage has already been done...no turning back now.

I agree completely, also kids at that age (girls and boys) would be having enough trouble with their hormones anyway, let alone messing around with them at that age.

I mean if it works out for this person in the future that's fine but I think something like this is setting a dangerous precedent.

Odd story.

The age seems way to young.
But, it's probably physically better before full blown puberty sets in.


Mentally, I don't think a 12 year old can really make this kind of decision..This kid HAS to hope the adults in his life, are making well informed, and wel thought out decisions.

the problem is the kid does not know what hormones may have come along later. being that age, he probably felt he did not fit in with the norms, and felt different.

how does he know that he may of in the future, developed a normal feelings in being a man. but the kid made his choice, now he will have to live with it. i suppose it is good for him tat society is breaking down its uncomfortable stance on this sort of thing. where as in years gone by he would have been hated by men and women alike, even females do not like the fact that a male would make this decision.

i am surprised by his parents though, if true. are they really responsible enough to bring a kid into the world, and let there kid do this at his age.

i do not know if those hormones will work, to iron out his confusion, but he is lucky, if true, that he did not do this 20 years ago, society may not have been so forgiven.

i just wonder how he fits in now, i am assuming one of the reasons he did it was because he just did not fit in.

What's to say the kid wasn't just gay?

Imagine you're twelve years old, male, and you are attracted to other males (and wearing women's clothes). It's not a clear-cut case of "I'm a woman", is it?

Could this be a mistake on their part, because they don't have all the information? They tell their parents, I like boys and wearing women's clothes, and the parents, rather than acknowledging the possibility their son is a gay cross-dresser, decide it's better for them to be a woman trapped in a man's body.

Is that what happened here?

I can't question the motives of the parents, because I've seen very little information about them in the news.

This situation does raise a very serious question though, isn't there a big difference between being a gay man and a straight woman trapped in a man's body? Is a twelve year old mature enough to know the difference?

How do anti-gay activists feel about this? Are they going to support sex changes for very young children to stamp out gayness? Or are they going to see it as just another abomination?

I'm really curious about this angle to the story, whether the child understood that being a male and being attracted to other males could be explained in ways besides "I'm really a female" - yaknow?

Originally posted by andy1033




i just wonder how he fits in now, i am assuming one of the reasons he did it was because he just did not fit in.

There's another good point too, is it a social issue with this kid as much as it's a biological issue.
I'm all for being progressive and we need to move ahead on a lot of issues but surely we have to draw the line at some things.

I'm wondering if and/or when some alien species decide to visit us, should we be charging them an entrance fee for the freak show.

WyrdeOne, your title "Youngest Sex Change Operation Completed - 12 Year Old Child" is innacurate. There has been no "operation" and the sex change is far from being completed.

The sex change will not become complete for another four years because while German law does not forbid hormone treatment for minors, they must be 18 before gender-transforming surgery can be carried out.
Source linked in original article

I'm with justgeneric on this one. This child has known since she was 2 that she was a girl. I applaud the parents in taking such a controversial step in making sure their chilld grows up emotionally healthy.

I think an important thing to consider:

‘Imagine a man who suddenly starts growing breasts or a woman who starts growing a beard against their will – that is how Kim and people like her experience puberty.’

As regards the cost, I'm sure the insurance companies aren't going bankrupt as a result of this treatment. I'm unsure how Germany's healthcare works, but Eorope doesn't seem to have the "moral" restraint issues that the US still has. A medical issue is a medical issue, regardless the moral judgments about it.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
This situation does raise a very serious question though, isn't there a big difference between being a gay man and a straight woman trapped in a man's body? Is a twelve year old mature enough to know the difference?

Being a gay man, I can honestly say that I've never felt like a woman in a man's body. I've always been a man. I'm actually more masculine than alot of straight guys I know. So, I'd say yes there is a huge difference.

[edit on 1/30/2007 by Griff]

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
What's to say the kid wasn't just gay?

Imagine you're twelve years old, male, and you are attracted to other males (and wearing women's clothes). It's not a clear-cut case of "I'm a woman", is it?

Could this be a mistake on their part, because they don't have all the information? They tell their parents, I like boys and wearing women's clothes, and the parents, rather than acknowledging the possibility their son is a gay cross-dresser, decide it's better for them to be a woman trapped in a man's body.

the problem is he will never know, how does a boy that has not gone through puberty know, what sort of person he is. there is also the problem you bring up, whether is is just gay or lets say female in a male body. there really will not be much difference at that age.

all i am saying, is that the kid may have grown up to be a normal man, with normal male feelings, but now becasue he has all these hormones, he will never know.

there can be a number of reasons he felt the way he did, but having confusion at that age is not really solved by doing this to him.

i wonder what his class mates feel about it, remember this kid if true, would have to go back to school.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
This situation does raise a very serious question though, isn't there a big difference between being a gay man and a straight woman trapped in a man's body?

Yes, there's a big difference. A gay man knows he's a man. He feels like a man and is comfortable being a man, having a muscled chest and male genitals. A transexual FEELS like the opposite sex. You can imagine how a transexual person feels if you imagine waking up one day with your very own breasts and no penis.

Imagine your youth when you reached puberty. Now imagine spouting breasts and having your penis crawl up inside your body. You know you're a boy, but all the stuff on the outside says girl. What kind of prison would that be for you?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
This situation does raise a very serious question though, isn't there a big difference between being a gay man and a straight woman trapped in a man's body?

Yes, there's a big difference. A gay man knows he's a man. He feels like a man and is comfortable being a man, having a muscled chest and male genitals. A transexual FEELS like the opposite sex. You can imagine how a transexual person feels if you imagine waking up one day with your very own breasts and no penis.

Imagine your youth when you reached puberty. Now imagine spouting breasts and having your penis crawl up inside your body. You know you're a boy, but all the stuff on the outside says girl. What kind of prison would that be for you?

i just wonder what percentage of males feel like this. is there a statistic somewhere.

Originally posted by andy1033
the problem is he will never know, how does a boy that has not gone through puberty know, what sort of person he is.

Even at the age of two, Tim insisted he was a girl trapped in a boy’s body... as a child, Tim liked to play with Barbie dolls, enjoyed wearing dresses and, from the age of two, insisted that he was a girl.

Hey andy (I'm assuming you're male, forgive me if I'm wrong), did you play with dolls when you were 2? As you grew up, did you want the latest Barbie? Did you hoola-hoop? Did you have tea parties? Want an E-Z Bake oven?

I did. Because I knew I was a girl. I felt like a girl.

Chances are you played with trucks and army men, got real dirty and had a frog in your pocket a time or two.

Now, I played with a truck sometimes and got dirty, too, but I still knew I was a girl.

i wonder what his class mates feel about it, remember this kid if true, would have to go back to school.

But she has not been placed at a different school in case of taunting from children who knew her as him in days gone by because, according to her parents, ‘her friends fully accept her as she is’.

Kids are a lot smarter than adults sometimes.

Source

I know this is a technicality, but wouldn't the youngest sex changes be performed on infants who are supposed to genetically come out female or male, but instead come out the opposite of whatever they're supposed to be?

Shattered OUT...

well maybe then kids should be taulght more at school, about the differences at that age, if you feel different, and how to deal with the way you feel.

i cannot remember what i did that young, before 9 or so, so don't know, but i undersatnd where youre going. the problem is that a kid that age, does not know whether he is just gay, or trans, but the real male hormones, could still come later.

i am just wondering what percentage of males out there, question these things. i am not going to get into personal things, with regard to those questions.

so what is the definition of being a gay man, and what is the definition of being a trans sexual man. how does a twelve year old, tell the difference, also what percentage of male boys, have worn female cloths when they were young.

this is my opinion:

simply gross...

it hurt my genitals to even read this

But if the guy...or...girl is happy what can I say. I guess its better to find out now than be some old guy wearing wearing a dress outside because it makes you feel better............

Originally posted by Royal76
But if the guy...or...girl is happy what can I say. I guess its better to find out now than be some old guy wearing wearing a dress outside because it makes you feel better............

yep at least the geezer made his choice early, maybe those hormones will help him more to accept the choice he or she made.

i wonder how a guy may feel later on if he met this person, and afterwards finding out. how would a hetero man actually feel in that situation.

[edit on 30-1-2007 by andy1033]

My question. Will he still have an adams apple? Or does that develope during puberty? I can't remember.

Originally posted by andy1033
i wonder how a guy may feel later on if he met this person, and afterwards finding out. how would a hetero man actually feel in that situation.

I know this isn't the same thing but imagine if you started dating a hermaphrodite and found out later that she was actually born with a penis also? Ask Jamie Lee Curtis. I heard she is a hermaphrodite (could just be a hoax though). Anyway, there are hermaphrodites out there that at one time had a penis and vagina at the same time. Would you hold it against her/him (no pun intended)?

Originally posted by Griff

Originally posted by andy1033
i wonder how a guy may feel later on if he met this person, and afterwards finding out. how would a hetero man actually feel in that situation.

I know this isn't the same thing but imagine if you started dating a hermaphrodite and found out later that she was actually born with a penis also? Ask Jamie Lee Curtis. I heard she is a hermaphrodite (could just be a hoax though). Anyway, there are hermaphrodites out there that at one time had a penis and vagina at the same time. Would you hold it against her/him (no pun intended)?

all i would say, is confusing times ahead.

If you stay inside of God's will then he will not allow these things to happen to you ... and if they do happen to you while you are obeying god ... and Following after him ... Then Read JOB alittle ... And begin to understand that be puts you through things to make your stronger to maybe prepare you or maybe help you be able to better understand someone else later on in your life that you would otherwise be unable to relate to ... It's not all about you ... the fact is ... We all live we all die ... But what we do with our lives is the "X" factor if you will ... Who cares if you live your life and make billions of dollars and leave it here for your kids and your kids kids kids .. If they all "burn in hell" with you the rest of your life you are really going to look back on life and see what I mean. It isn't something that is not going to happen ... the day is coming .. Unfortunately I am going to have to look across that divide that is not a "MIDDLE GROUND" believed by some ... There is no middle with God .. it is black and white and your heart knows whether it is Black or White ... and if it doesn't then my best advice to you is not to mess with it ... Better safe than sorry .. if some of you would just decide to Devote your lifes to god fully ... You would see great things starting to happen in your life ... But you would have to sell out ... Almost as some of us do for a Promotion at work ...or to be the starter of our team ... Instead of riding the bench. Then again there are some of us that have lost this ambition through society telling us it's not about competition ... When god built us with a Drive and Desire ... that sometimes may get out of hand but always is a USeful tool throughout each of our lifes ... ***SORRY GOT ALITTLE SIDETRACKED ... but How can you say this has nothing to do with the very reason you are HERE ! You need to go back and ask yourself ..y am I here ?!?! Maybe so you can be the first to discover that Aliens are real ??? Hmmm ... Would make you famous .. is that what you live life for !?!

Originally posted by ShiftTrio
This has nothing to do with Morals, This has nothing to do with God. This person was born with the wrong parts bottom line, its a science thing IMHO. a birth defect if you will. Twins can be born attached, people can be born the their hearts outside there bodies, or any other of the millions of birth defects that could happen. But someone gets the wrong genitals and they are a freak. Maybe they are a freak, all the more reason to help them to be who they should have been. Would you not detach the twin if medically it wouldn't hurt the person, would you not fix the child's heart, help them with there defect?

This has been mentioned twice. NO SURGERY CAN BE DONE UNTIL SHE IS 18 So please drop the subject of the legality of this and what are her parents thinking.

This poor child has been telling her parents since she could talk that she was a girl, and went out of her way to wear dresses and other "Girlie" things with out here parents help. Most doctors have said this is a clear cut case of this child being the wrong gender.


Bottom line open your mind and think like this.

What if you were born the wrong gender?
How would you feel to know you are in the wrong body.
I bet half the people here think the government is being run by Lizards but when it comes to sexuality people freak out. Open your mind to at least the level that you do on other subjects on this board and thank what ever God/Being/light source that you are not in this persons shoes/heels lol