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Time Travel and the Paradox

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posted on Jan, 28 2007 @ 11:01 PM
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So I was talkin a few days ago with one of my smarter of friends.. god I wish I had more... and we were watching the Hawking show on Discovery cause well.. we were bored

So we get into a little thing on time travel and this was the shortened result

Time travel is just a moving of information- How does that work?
My opinion was- It wouldnt right?
Friend- Well actually there are more then one universe so time travel would really be the moving your information to another universe at a certain time because something is constantly happening in at a certain time somewhere
Me-Ok so... what?
Friend- Time Travel would ultimately be a mix of changing universe and changing time thats why there isnt a paradox in your current universe
Me- Alright then but how would that be of advantage to help in ours?
friend- Cause somewhere in another universe someones decision would be the same but with the outcome to come here.. the information not being from here so not taking having 2 sets from the same place
Me- Alright whatever lets go check on [ther person]


So does that make any sense to any of you?? I cant really put in without crediting him and I didnt know how to quote him so I just played back all that went on *with things left out for the sake of getting to the point*

I kinda understand a lot of it so.... questions?




posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 12:48 AM
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Yeah, I happen to believe that if you chug enough beers and watch Stephen Hawking talk, you can litterally time travel...seriously.



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 02:04 AM
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XD We werent drinkin and this was too early for us to get wasted anyway


Im the not so smart one of the 2 cause well.... Im all about animals



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 07:16 AM
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Well, according to Albert Einstine, there is a Time Travel Paradox, however it is theroretical.

Einstine Theorized that if one where able to trave backwards in time, he or she could Obsever everything that happened, but the Law of Space-Time continum would prevent a time traveler from interacting with the world in that time, thus, you couldn't change history even is you wanted to.

For exampler, a time travler could NOT go back Nazi Germany and assassinate Adlof Hittler.

Tim



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 05:03 PM
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Me- Alright then but how would that be of advantage to help in ours?


well there is very little advantage.


its a long explanation but the jist is if you were to make a change to large you would destroy your chances of going back to your original time.


the fable of going back to change things does not pan out, if you intend to go back to your time.


if you were to perceive time as a linear movement it makes more sense.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 06:24 PM
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yea thats why I meant... why would that help cause if your traveling through other universes.. how do you know to be back to your own?



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 09:50 PM
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Some casual reading I did recently may rain on the whole time travel thing - I'll summarize as it is very complicated....

For many years, people have taken the whole "the equations work forward and backward thing" as evidence that time travel is possible. I should say backward here as forward is no problemo due to relativity. Sure everyone's "now time" is the same from the perspective of the that person because of relativity (and the equations wotking backward and forward) but from the reference frame of space-time, it is not the same for everyone. This is not that easy to explain but it is due to doppler shifts and moving the reference and relativity frame to or away from ones self and that is where the equations get interpreted as going back in time, but that is not the case when the universe and space time is used as the reference frame. It gets worse....

The problem is a little thing called entropy. Entropy gives the universe a one way ticket in the time dimension. You see, every atom (and what atoms are made of and thing made of atoms) are going from a lower entropy state to a higher one and basically this time stamps the universe. While we can "see" back in time (because of the speed of light limit) the events have already passed at a lower entropy than they are now. There is no "going back" as that would violate the entropy laws and quantum theories throw additional snags via the uncertainty principal and others.

Time travel stories are fun, but the physics is kinda pointing to it's not going to happen.... It does no good to even pop out of or into our universe at an earlier time because that earlier time can not be reached - it happend at a lower entropy state and that now is unreachable.... Sure space and time can go whacky in a black hole but from the universe's perspective, that time arrow is marching forward and there is no going back....

Problem for Titor lovers even forgetting entropy for a moment - due to the inflation of the universe the Earth in the future is not where it is now in teh space-time reference. Not only would you have to manipulate your position in the time dimension, you would need to factor in your position in the 3 (or 10 via string theory) dimensions of space to land your time travel hot rod right where you want to. Toss in some variance from a comet the push of the solar wind and maybe some flares and the precision needed is close to infinity. Toss in the entropy bit and uncertainty and sorry folks, not going to happen....



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 01:31 AM
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Time travel has to be self-consistent. If you read J. Richard Gott's book "Time Travel in Einstein Universe - the physical realities of time travel" or something like that - a book that came out a couple of years ago now - well - about 2002 or so, then you get an idea what concepts are involved in traveling in time. That concept of self-consistency is one of those concepts that can not be ignored. So it time travel is possible and you went back into the Past, the future would still have to be the same as when you were in the future and you started to travel back in time. Right now there are theories out there both ways either con or pro but if you look around on the Internet a person can find out what is thought about the subject. Anyway in Einstein's formula, a positive result is space travel and if the result of the formula is negative then it is time travel.

For instance if you had a big mirror and could put it out in Space at a distance of 10 light years, then on the Earth you could see it, then you would see the Earth as it appeared in the Past - taking light 10 light years to get there, and 10 light years to get back. If it was detailed in the image you received you would have seen the Earth as it was 10 years previously.

J. Richard Gott goes through examples or story after story and explains the concept of time travel and what it means in the first place. That seems to be a good starting point for understanding that if you beat the speed of light to a star like Alpha Centauri because Space is curved by Mass then in effect you have time traveled since nothing can go faster then the speed of light. To do that you have to warp space and mass closer to you than it will take light curving to travel in time. Without looking at the book again, and reading it, then there are various forms of time travel but all of those forms of time travel have to be self-consistent in the end. If you achieve that with any form of time travel then you have the possibility that a person can travel in time whether to the stars in Space or any other way. What is needed is experiments that enlarge the theory or prove what can be done. One of the experiments coming up is by a scientist called John G. Cramer where he theorizes that since there is entanglement like in quantum entanglement that Einstein called Spooky Action at a distance, that actually 'photons' that are entangled must travel backwards in time so the entanglement takes place. ( If one photon is spinning clockwise and with entanglement another photon a long way away is spinning counter-clockwise then he is doing an experiment to prove that the photons to be entangled in the quantum theory actually had to travel back in time so as to tell the other particle since they both are entangled in the now time.
(Well, something like that perhaps then.)

www.analogsf.com...

There was a picture and article somewhere but I did not find it.



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 02:33 PM
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I believe in what terence mckenna said about time travel. The person or people that invent a time machine will immediately know it before they even try it out because a ton of people in the future with the time machine will come back to see the first one ever made.

Say a time machine is made in 2010... you cant go back before then because time machines don't exist. So according to mckenna there is no paradox



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 06:09 AM
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There is no paradox with time travel. You can go back, but you can not change what has happened, because it has already happened.



posted on Feb, 3 2007 @ 11:15 PM
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There is not paradox outside of time.

The paradox exists because we are trying to put a 4 dimensional reality into our 3 dimensional minds and what's worse is we are trying to make e=mc2 come out as a mathematical equation instead of a theory used to shape 4 dimensional space in our head.

Everyone wants to reject Einstein's work these days and instead turn physics into a child of math as the parent.

Bell's theorum says information is working intelligently and in some sort of communication...it has not been disproven has it?

Or explained either but that doesn't matter. It was observed and recorded in scientific formula.

Light is light is light.
No matter what it's supposed benchmark speed it is the standard for our awareness and so it is always the fastest thing and the same things applied at all its potential variabilities.

But time travel isn't about matter but about consciousness.
Who says John Titor needed a time machine or even Marty on back to the future?

All you need is a working and maintained roman ring and some dark matter...and to know where to jump in at.

I think the black hole white hole thing is more of a norm than imploded sucking vacuum holes.

But if the light part of a black hole is manifested as a star then there would be no clue of the entrance to the tunnel...except that it is dark matter and darker in comparison.

Entropy would not exist in a system which was an organic based living planet like Earth, a black hole and equivalent sun....because as our non organic selves travel the loop over and over our bodies and all decaying matter provides the thing which makes a closed system self sustaining without an end to the cycle.

Methane heat light
the weight of the elements would stay the same and what travels the roman ring is weightless or nearly so and therefore wouldn't cause problems in the balance of the methane carbon

Unless the sun burns out but maybe the fact that man is here will keep the sun from going the same route as all the stars we've ever known.

If there is no surge or dip then the cycle will chug on indefinitely...?

All theories please understand. I don't know why i just see the pictures and try to explain.




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