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Dulce Underground Base Alien War Question

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posted on Mar, 30 2007 @ 06:26 AM
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Originally posted by johnlear
Am I lying about the man giving me the pencil drawings that Thomas Costello allegedly gave him?

Am I lying about copying them in pen and ink?

Am I lying about copying the text that was allegedly smuggled out of Dulce and then typing it on my IBM computer?


Dew to a lack of "Proof" I'll stay away from the "L- word" for the moment. However, these are some pretty Extraordinary Claims, John. You are saying the document you posted were Copied from origionals smuggled out of a Top Secret base in New Mexico.

Can you upload a photo of the "Origionals" for comparison?

Here's you golden Oppertunity to Earn back some of my respect. Can you prove the origionals exist?


Tim




posted on Mar, 30 2007 @ 06:48 AM
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Tim, with all DUE respect: buy a dictionary. Seriously. It's pathetic. I think you're a funny guy, and your tenacity deserves some respect, but man oh man, it's damn near impossible to take you serious.



posted on Mar, 30 2007 @ 07:14 AM
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How great is it that John provided those pics ( thanks ) and now we have anothe one of John's friends / contacts here at ATS


Welcome Ron R.



posted on Mar, 30 2007 @ 08:13 AM
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Norio,
Can I post this on the Dulce thread?
Thanks, john

Hello, John
BY ALL MEANS, YES...YOU CAN !!
Thanks so much.
This is for the public.
Everything I write or do is for the public.
Anyway, John, it's so good to hear from you.
I know that you are still a very busy man.
Still flying?
-from Norio


Dulce, New Mexico revisited - mysteries still remain!!

by Norio Hayakawa March 28, 2007

DULCE, NEW MEXICO - On Sunday, March 25, I finally arrived at Dulce, New Mexico once again, after more than 17 years. It was a long drive from Los Angeles but it was definitely a worthwhile trip. The last time that I was at this "mysterious" little town was in March of 1990.

I will never forget that 1990 visit when I first brought a Japanese TV crew, incredible as it may sound, to document an alleged existence of an "underground U.S./alien joint bio-lab" which was rumored to exist deep under the Archuleta Mesa, adjacent to Dulce. While interviewing many Jicarilla Apache locals on the street at that visit, we were inexplicably detained by the then Police Chief, Hoyt Velarde and kept at his office for almost an hour and a half, during which time he had meticulously taken down our personal info, i.e., our ID's, driver's license numbers and, in my case, even my Soc. Sec. number, if I recall correctly. It was a shock to us then. We had asked him if we were doing anything illegal by interviewing the people, the question to which he never responded. I clearly remember that just before he released us, he told us in a rather warning tone: "Don't you ever ask any more questions regarding such a base. I have nothing to do with it and I do not want to talk about it!" An enigmatic answer, indeed. That was in March of 1990.

Now here I am once again, in Dulce. It brought me back lots of memories of 1990. However, this time, as soon as I drove in to Dulce, I immediately noticed that it had completely changed since 1990.
It seems to have grown quite a lot, not so much in terms of population, but in terms of its physical appearance. There are now so many new buildings, large and small and many modern local community facilities - a brand new Middle School, a brand new High School, a new Students' Athletic Complex, brand new Police and Maintenance Center, a modern Emergency Medical Service facility, and on the south side, a brand new Student's Residential Complex, and, of course, a newly refurbished Best Western Hotel, all in the small community of less than 3500 residents.
Yes, it has been many years, so it would seem natural for some growth to take place. However, the question I began to think was where did all the funds for all these sudden developments come from? And, especially, for such a tiny town?

When I interviewed the locals in 1990, I clearly remember that almost every one of them had testified to us that in the late 70's and the early 80's, they had frequently observed strange lights in the sky, especially flying over and around, and even appearing to disappear into the sides of the Mesa. They even testified to us that they also frequently observed military helicopters over Dulce, along with reports of cattle mutilations in the ranches nearby. Those were the things we heard back then when we were in Dulce in 1990.

To my great surprise, sightings still seem to continue in and around Dulce, even now!!
Even recent sightings of what many describe as "Bigfoot" along the Navajo River is also a fairly new topic of conversation in Dulce now.

I was so fortunate this time to personally get to know a friendly family who lives in the northwest area of the town. I had gotten to know the husband while I was attending the UFO symposium in Aztec the weekend before. During my three days of stay in Dulce this time, I have obtained many new, fascinating sighting reports from many locals again, particularly from the family that I just mentioned and their relatives.

On my second day of stay in Dulce, this family invited me to their residence for a great meal. They had also invited their relatives who were willing to describe to me in detail many strange experiences they have had and even are having now.
It was assuring me to know that the family that I befriended were immediate relatives of high officials of the Jicarilla Apache tribe. The husband was a son of the former head of the Police Department (way before Hoyt Velarde). His wife is an immediate family of the head of the Jicarilla Apache tribal council. His sister-in-law has been a Dulce Police dispatcher. For this reason, I will refrain from naming any individuals to protect their privacy.

My friend's wife told me of a fairly recent incident whereby a huge, silent delta-shaped dark object emitting extremely bright lights slowly passed over a group of 50 to 75 (all their relatives) on a mesa where they were celebrating a traditional Jicarilla Apache feast called the "coming out" feast, a "puberty" celebration for young boys and girls (similar to the Spanish quincenera celebration). The huge object appeared after sundown, an hour or so after their traditional meals had ended and after the shamans had completed their chantings and dances. They were simply stunned to see the huge triangular 'craft' hovering only about 100 feet above the campground. The entire area lit up like daylight. What was more amazing was that after a few minutes of hovering over the area, it suddenly took off with a tremendous gust of wind. Pots and pans were flying all over. Some of the people were almost thrown off their vehicles. Fortunately, no one was injured. Panic spread. The generators failed to re-start and all battery-operated appliances malfunctioned, including the car radios.

Another recent incident they recounted was a daytime sighting of a silver, saucer-shaped object at around 11 a.m., which hovered for 30 minutes right next to Hwy 537, not too far from the junction of U.S. 64, north of La Jara Lake.

One relative also recounted a recent, unforgettable sighting of a huge, flying "triangle" near Hwy 537, near J-30 (Jicrailla Road, #30), with some type of a "cloaking device" that almost appeared to have a transparent body. The object was described to have been close to half-a-mile in length!!

The biggest and most impressive sighting, however, took place in May of 2004 when several families were celebrating together the feast on a Jicarilla Apache campground, located at an area near J-33 and J-40, right near the Continental Divide. Incredibly, it involved hundreds (not just one or two objects) of brilliant objects in the night sky. It literally filled up the entire sky, according to the testimony of the former Dulce police dispatcher. There were close to 100 witnesses to this incredible incident. Some even said that there were probably close to several hundred objects in the night sky. They moved en masse slowly from one end of the sky to the other. It was literally an "armada" of UFOs (which exactly reminded me of the famous, well-documented 1950 mass sightings of UFOs over Farmington, near the Four Corners area of New Mexico).
What was particularly fascinating about this sighting was that everyone also saw a small fleet of military helicopters which seemed to follow the objects. Again, car radios went dead all through the sighting.

An interesting point is that many of the appearances of UFOs seem to coincide with various feasts taking place in the Jicarilla Apache reservation. Were 'they' attracted to the Jicarilla feasts?

Last but not the least of the impressive Dulce sightings involved a Jicarilla Apache Forest Service ranger who witnessed a 'craft' of some kind enter the east side of the Archuleta Mesa through several large rocks that appeared to open (almost like a door) and in went the craft into the side of the mesa. He excitedly reported this sighting live on his microphone while he was communicating on his radio with the Forest Service station across the south side of Dulce. The ranger was stationed at the top of the Archuleta Mesa in the look-out building next to the radio communications tower. This took place a few years after a big fire destroyed many of the trees on and around the mesa. (What is still strange about the aftermath of the fire, which they say happened about 10 years ago, is the fact that all attempts for the re-forestation have so far failed on and around the Archuleta Mesa. They just don't seem to grown, for some strange reason or other.

What is my conclusion to all these fairly recent sightings in Dulce? These were all first-hand eyewitnesses to the events. Without doubt, I cannot help but believe that they all saw what they described to have seen. There is no other explanation.

Lastly, while in Dulce, the son of the former head of the Dulce Police Department took me to the site of Project Gasbuggy. Project Gasbuggy was a rather 'strange' 1967 government project which involved a large underground nuclear explosion (29 kilotons of TNT) deep inside the high plateau area 25 miles south of Dulce, allegedly to release natural gas from deep under the ground. It was a joint project with El Paso Natural Gas Company. What is not frequently mentioned in association with this curious project was that the huge nuclear explosion had created, deep, huge underground extensive caverns all over the area along with extensive natural "tunnels".

What this has to do with the ongoing sightings of not only "UFOs" but also alleged sightings of "entities" (including fairly recent sightings of alleged 'Bigfoot' along the Navajo River near Dulce) is up to the reader. We may not necessarily be talking about pure physical phenomena but somehow intertwined with it could be a yet unknown type of "interdimensional" occurrences.

It is simply fascinating!! And it is still ongoing in the "mysterious" town of Dulce, New Mexico!!

-----
Norio Hayakawa
Area51watch@aol.com

www.myspace.com...



posted on Mar, 30 2007 @ 09:18 AM
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Are you presenting that last piece as evidence John or just an interesting story? Did he not get anything in writing or on tape, or ask if anyone had taken any photos etc?

Also have you thought about my questions on the picture and in particular the last one?



posted on Mar, 30 2007 @ 09:18 AM
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double post

[edit on 30-3-2007 by Mike_A]



posted on Mar, 30 2007 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by Mike_A
Are you presenting that last piece as evidence John or just an interesting story? Did he not get anything in writing or on tape, or ask if anyone had taken any photos etc?


I haven't asked him but I am going to suggest that we invite you next time, pay all of your expenses, plus a modest fee for your time and effort and get you to ask the interviewees for their statement in writing or on tape with an accompanying affidavit and photos.



Also have you thought about my questions on the picture and in particular the last one?


I went out in the garage this morning where all of my files are stored. There are several, legal sized, 4 drawer cabinets. All files are in alphabetical order. I looked under "D" for Dulce and found nothing. I did however find the file for Mr. X and there were some drawings of the aerial vehicle seen at Wikieup and notes about other things but no drawings.

I belive the original drawings which were drawn in pencil are still around because I remember seeing them not too long ago and remarking to myself, "I'll be damned."

While going through the files looking for the Dulce drawings I came across the Bennewitz file, then Lazar, Myrna Hanson, Harry Jordan, Sen. Goldwater, George Lesnick, Barbara Honneger, Jim McCampbell, Gen. Twining....I gotta quit going out there. I wasted a good hour thumbing through 20 years of research and memories. There are thousands of documents and letters and notes and drawings, going to make a good website for someone, someday. But not for me. There is too much to do and find out and explore without wasting time on the past trying to prove obscure details to the less informed.


And by the less informed of course I am not referring to you Mike_A. How could I be?



posted on Mar, 30 2007 @ 10:02 AM
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Thanks for the offer but I really don’t have the time to go globe trotting for this, if I did I wouldn’t be on here, I don’t think I’d be at Dulce either but that’s another matter.

Perhaps instead of wasting your money to convince me alone it would be better to take video camera wherever you go, and when you can get an interview/make a sighting or whatever you can get real evidence. Make sure to mark down the date and time, get the relevant people to show ID, appear on camera at least once yourself to prove it is from you, get some background objects in frame when you see something unusual etc. That way you can back up what you say because without stuff like this all you have is elaborate stories. Oh and make sure to get anyone else investigating this to do the same. The fate of the world hangs in the balance does it not?



Anyway, just for clarification there is nothing else you can provide in the way of compelling, verifiable evidence?



posted on Mar, 30 2007 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by Mike_A
Thanks for the offer but I really don’t have the time to go globe trotting for this, if I did I wouldn’t be on here, I don’t think I’d be at Dulce either but that’s another matter.


Of course not.


Perhaps instead of wasting your money to convince me alone it would be better to take video camera wherever you go, and when you can get an interview/make a sighting or whatever you can get real evidence. Make sure to mark down the date and time, get the relevant people to show ID, appear on camera at least once yourself to prove it is from you, get some background objects in frame when you see something unusual etc. That way you can back up what you say because without stuff like this all you have is elaborate stories. Oh and make sure to get anyone else investigating this to do the same. The fate of the world hangs in the balance does it not?


You might want to address this to some who really cares Mike_A. First, there is no question in my mind that the Dulce Joint US/Alien Underground Base exists. Why would I want to do any of the above? I joined this thread to tell you what I knew, not to prove anything.


Anyway, just for clarification there is nothing else you can provide in the way of compelling, verifiable evidence?


If you are referring to the Dulce Joint US/Alien Underground Base, there is 'nothing else', (compared to?) no compelling, verifiable evidence, that it exists.



posted on Mar, 30 2007 @ 12:39 PM
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Thank you for being honest about those photos being the only evidence, I think that will help a lot of people make a more informed decision on what you claim.

Though I’m surprised you don’t care about people believing you considering the implications these claims would have if true.


[edit on 30-3-2007 by Mike_A]


sip

posted on Mar, 30 2007 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by johnlear

U.S. Government is all I know. His job was supervising the building of huge mining machines that were shipped to the moon. One of them was over 30 stories tall. He said we had bases both on the moon and Mars.



Does the son of Mr X know of his fathers work? Did he follow in his footsteps? Would you ever reveal the identity of Mr X?

sip



posted on Mar, 30 2007 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by yfxxx
  • Where is this X-Ray of Myrna Hansens head?


  • I gave it to Ron Regher, he never returned it.


  • Where are the photos of the dome shaped saucers?







  • Who are the two government employees? What departments do they work for?


  • My 3 sources for people who worked there are:

    Thomas Costello
    Dan Burisch
    Mr. X (2) (He is now deceased. I will not provide his name as one of his sons is still living).




    ARE THOSE PHOTO'S RELATED TO THE DULCE BASE OR NOT?

    IN THIS THREAD YOU SAY TJHEY ARE NOT RELATED:
    www.abovetopsecret.com...

    ARE THOSE PHOTO'S OF UFOS FROM DULCE OR NOT?



    posted on Mar, 30 2007 @ 08:40 PM
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    Originally posted by sip

    Does the son of Mr X know of his fathers work?


    Yes.


    Did he follow in his footsteps?


    No, he was a junkie.



    Would you ever reveal the identity of Mr X?


    No.



    posted on Mar, 30 2007 @ 08:40 PM
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    Pioneering the Space Frontier states the following under its Declaration for Space.



    Our Resolve: To Go Forth "In Peace for All Mankind"

    When the first Apollo astronauts stepped onto the Moon, they emplaced a plaque upon which were inscribed the words, "We came in peace for all mankind." As we move outward into the Solar System, we must remain true to our values as Americans: To go forward peacefully and to respect the integrity of planetary bodies and alien life forms, with equality of opportunity for all.


    This is written in 1984 and published in 1986. Note again "To go forward peacefully and to respect the integrity of planetary bodies and alien life forms, with equality of opportunity for all.

    This was several years after the Dulce incident, but never before or after do we really have much inkling of "alien life forms," energizing the national conversation.

    All of this is evidenced in this National Commission Report. One would think that the government knows there are "alien life forms," as they acknowledge such a thing in a matter of fact way.

    So I go along with John Lear on the Dulce story at least about "alien life forms," since I am by this reading a bit beyond the mud pie stage on the topic. I do not think the government is lying about matters as serious as this commission report. They may have omissions about the issue, but that one policy statement speaks volumes. I would even dare to say it is extraordinary proof.

    [edit on 30-3-2007 by SkipShipman]



    posted on Mar, 30 2007 @ 08:44 PM
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    Originally posted by AnonnyMoose

    ARE THOSE PHOTO'S RELATED TO THE DULCE BASE OR NOT?


    I know of no connection.


    IN THIS THREAD YOU SAY TJHEY ARE NOT RELATED:


    As far as I know they are not related.


    ARE THOSE PHOTO'S OF UFOS FROM DULCE OR NOT?


    Not. They were taken of craft arriving and departing the Manzano Weapons Storage Area of Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque New Mexico. Dulce is a hundred or so miles to the north.



    posted on Mar, 31 2007 @ 11:57 PM
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    Originally posted by johnlear

    Originally posted by hikix
    hmmm i read about Dulce and there really isnt too much info on the base.. so i believe i read about 95% of it. But John, was it you who brought all this to the public, or has anyone before you discussed Dulce? Of course the internet is only a little over a decade old in te public domain, so getting this info out to the public would be difficult b4 that, but im curious on where the Dulce story started.


    I mentioned in another thread, I was the one that published the "Dulce Papers". I made the pen and ink drawings from the originals which were drawn in pencil. The information that I copied from the original papers smuggled out by Thomas Edwin Costello was typewritten on my IBM Executive (the kind with proportional spacing.) Check it out. I stayed with Dr. Bennewitz and his wife at their home overlooking the Manzano Weapons Storage Area (Kirtland AFB) in the fall of 1987 for 2 days. I interviewed Col. Edwards (with Linda Moulton Howe), Gabe Valdez (drove an 8 hour 10pm to 6am shift with him) Jim McCampbell (who tape recorded an interview with Dr. Bennewitz about the Hansen incident) and Bill Moore. Dr. Bennewitz gave me the x-ray of Myrna Hansen's head showing the the chip and the photos he had taken of the dome shaped saucers operating from the MWSA. 2 other government employees confirmed the existence of Dulce one of whom told me he knew it as Section D.

    I was the one that originally copied the drawings and information and then sent it to friends. And, no, I didn't make it up. The drawings and text were published in Matrix I which was published by Val Valerian (John Grace).





    John, you gave times, places and specific individuals names that you recieved first hand information about there being an underground alien base and more. For those who do not know of linda Moulton Howe she is one of the most thorough journalist investigators in the world and has written many books about UFO's, abductions, crop circles, aliens, Earth changes, Solar System and Universe. She has won an emmy for her documentaries.

    Look at the list of credible individuals John just gave the readers on ATS about being eye wittness to what he was told are facts. Now that is putting your money where your mouth is again he gives times, places and most individuals names. In other words John is relaying their message to the world about incidences and visuals they say actually took place. Rik Riley

    [edit on 1-4-2007 by rikriley]



    posted on Apr, 4 2007 @ 02:47 AM
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    I have a question:
    in one of Phil Schneider's lecture videos:
    www.philschneider.org...
    (the November 1995 video at around 5:20 of it) ,he talks about a 1909 u.s cavalry fight with some "banditos" as he calls it, and goes on to say the cavalry follows the banditos into a cave and defeats them, only to see some "horseshoe" craft and "grey demons". I am curious if this statement the late Mr. Schneider speaks of has any basis in "fact" as far as where he got this story from. Does anyone know if this story is documented anywhere? I searched but came up empty.
    thank you

    [edit on 4-4-2007 by WhiteWash]



    posted on Apr, 4 2007 @ 01:29 PM
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    Originally posted by WhiteWash
    I am curious if this statement the late Mr. Schneider speaks of has any basis in "fact" as far as where he got this story from. Does anyone know if this story is documented anywhere? I searched but came up empty.
    thank you.





    Many of Phils stories came from the Branton Files (COSCON). Did you check there? Unfortunately there is no search reference or index specific to Branton. If I had the time I would look but there are hundreds of pages.



    posted on Apr, 4 2007 @ 04:56 PM
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    Originally posted by johnlear
    Many of Phils stories came from the Branton Files (COSCON). Did you check there? Unfortunately there is no search reference or index specific to Branton. If I had the time I would look but there are hundreds of pages.


    John,

    This stuff Originated in the Branton files, but there are NO refrences to Mr. Branton?

    Hundreds of pages of what?
    You have hunders of pages of information that have no refences or source to proove they are real? May I ask how all of these mysteriously "untraceable" documents always seem to find you?

    Are any of these sources even Remotly creditable?

    John, if your trying to prove that you know what you are talking about, you're doing a Pitiful Job. Most of your sources either seem untaceable or unbelieveable! Every time I've tried to check on one of your latest claims, I end up running in circles and finding nothing. Why do you insist on ghost refrences and unlocatable people as sources?

    This is becoming a futile exercise! Your claims are inpossible to prove becuase every source seems to turn into a dead end. I hate being this blunt, but you're leaving me with NO other options:

    John Lear, is there something you are NOT Telling us? If so, may I ask WHY?

    Tim



    posted on Apr, 4 2007 @ 05:02 PM
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    Originally posted by Ghost01

    John Lear, is there something you are NOT Telling us? If so, may I ask WHY?

    Tim




    Tim, the question was asked where the "banditos" story came from. I answered that it might be found in the Branton files. Is there a problem here?



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