Dulce Underground Base Alien War Question

Phil Schnieder video talks about Dulce Labs War:
www.youtube.com...
William Cooper video talks about Dulce Labs War:
www.youtube.com...


The war that Phil Schnieder talks about in 1979 that killed 66 Delta Force. He does say August of 1979. However this guy William Cooper says that the same war happened in 1969. Cooper also mentions that 66 Delta Force were killed. So they must be talking about the same war, but one of them has confused the date? I guess since Phil is so popular, that it must be that William Cooper is wrong? Some people claim Phil is a fake, but this guy kinda backs him up by telling a similiar story... As well I read the interview found in the link below, which seems to reinforce these videos somewhat... I haven't even began to look for Thomas Costello info, but i am sure that will be an interesting story too...
Here is that interview link:
www.subversiveelement.com...

Cooper probably misspoke. The year was 1979.

Originally posted by Tea
Cooper probably misspoke. The year was 1979.

Damn that is EXACTLy what I was going to say.

Has there ever been any physical evidence of this war, other than the guy's missing fingers ? (depending on what you do, it can be quite easy to lose fingers in a manner other than an ET ray gun)

Two people, telling a similar tale could mean it happened, or they heard a similar story and are relating it, or....they are/were both glory-hounds,
backing each other so they weren't flying solo.

Meh.

Just wondering,

Lex

The thing I'd be interested in is finding out which one of them (Cooper or Schnieder) told this story first.

If it was Schnieder,then I believe Cooper probably just heard this story from the usual UFO circles,and just made a mistake in the date.

If Cooper said it first,wouldn't that leave the possibility that Schnieder could have made a mistake in date? Although,quite frankly,if he was there I kind of doubt he'd forget when it happened.

Just my thoughts.

Well, myself I have a tendency to believe that the 1979 date is the "right" date, and that maybe this william cooper is a potential copy cat. My reason for this is that William has to read his story about the war (whereas Phil just nonchalantly talks about it), so he did read "1969" off of his notes. He wrote down 1969 in his notes to present, and I am sure he must have proofread his notes after he wrote them, so he read "1969" again, and left as is...
Now who knows, I shouldnt conclude this yet, anything is possible. He may have had a small blotch over the "7" in his photocopied documents that he got for this whole story (I dont know how he got the story), and just thought "Well it must be a 1969, judging by the appearance of the rest of this material, so I will assume that is the date..." hehehe...

Lexion, speaking of "evidence" of this event, how about this. Just a few days back I read an article in one of the local "Sun" papers (I know, Sun isn't a real paper, but let me tell the story anyway...) that tells of a new non-lethal beam weapon that law enforcement can use. The first thing I thought of when I read that article was "Oh yeah, I know where that technology came from." Phil talks about the weapon a bit in his video, but for the real goods on that weapon (called a "Flash"), check out that interview link. the guy in there details the "Flash" weapon, and when the Flash weapon is on one of its lower settings, it is just like this beam weapon that is out (or coming out, w/e). I will see if I can find a link somhow to that Sun article.

Originally posted by DocGonzo
The thing I'd be interested in is finding out which one of them (Cooper or Schnieder) told this story first.

I told the story to Cooper after I met him on Paranet during the summer of 1988. He drove to Vegas from L.A. and I gave him a copy of everything I had including the Dulce papers which I had written.

Schneider used copies of those papers to make up his story starting I believe in the early 90's. He could have easily gotten copies of any of the papers, including the Dulce papers which by then had been published in Matrix 1 by Val Valerian (John Grace).

After watching all the video that's out there it's damn hard to figure out who to believe. I've gotten to the point where I don't believe anyone anymore. I'm sure the government is counting on that.

Originally posted by johnlear
I told the story to Cooper after I met him on Paranet during the summer of 1988. He drove to Vegas from L.A. and I gave him a copy of everything I had including the Dulce papers which I had written.

Schneider used copies of those papers to make up his story starting I believe in the early 90's. He could have easily gotten copies of any of the papers, including the Dulce papers which by then had been published in Matrix 1 by Val Valerian (John Grace).

Cool! Thanks for adding in here John. So you are the one who brought forward all this info to the public originally? And am I correct to assume that you got all this info from Robert Lazar? Or other sources?

I am wondering why would the "govt" assasinate Phil Schneider, for distributing "crazy lies" like that? Wouldn't they know that he had nothing to do with Dulce, and that he was a "kook" just looking for notoriety? As well on that, why wouldn't they come after you instead for releasing the info? Or get Bob Lazar for releasing the info to you (if that is where you got it originally)? Also, why not William Cooper (I don't really know where Cooper is nowadays), why leave him alone too? Instead they go after some looney (who cant run a skill saw), who got the info "4th hand" at least and comes up with a "fantastical" story of the underworld... That part doesn't click yet for me.

Please don't think that I am trying to flame here... I was maybe starting to lean towards believing in the Phil Schneider video a little more lately, and then you come along and completely take the wind out of my sails here... So now I would really like to know if Phil was a fake, and you seem to maybe be the one that holds the key to the real answers here, so I am just playing a little of a devil's advocate role here to find out more if that is okay.

Also (bear with me as I flip to the other side of the coin here), is it a possibility that you are actually a disinfo agent hired by govt to "knock down" these claims from the inside so to speak? Hehehe... Well why else would they martyr the kook, and allow the leak sources to continue to leak and spread info (unless the info was all bs to begin with and its purpose is to further distract from the real agenda). Hehehehe...

I swear this whole Dulce story could all be a summer blockbuster movie starring Will Smith and Bruce Willis...

Originally posted by IronDogg
Cool! Thanks for adding in here John. So you are the one who brought forward all this info to the public originally?

Yes.

And am I correct to assume that you got all this info from Robert Lazar?

No, I released the Dulce papers in 1987 about a year before I met Lazar.

Or other sources?

I have explained in detail in many of the Dulce threads how I came by the information.

I am wondering why would the "govt" assasinate Phil Schneider, for distributing "crazy lies" like that? Wouldn't they know that he had nothing to do with Dulce, and that he was a "kook" just looking for notoriety?

I don't believe that Phil Schneider was assassinated or that he had in part in Dulce or that he was ever at Dulce.

As well on that, why wouldn't they come after you instead for releasing the info?

As I have explained before, 'they' never bother anybody with second hand stories or sources. And thats all I have, second hand sources.

Or get Bob Lazar for releasing the info to you (if that is where you got it originally)?

Bob read a similar story in his briefings at S-4. The word Dulce was never mentioned.

Also, why not William Cooper (I don't really know where Cooper is nowadays), why leave him alone too?

Some of Cooper's stories were true, some were not. He had no first hand information about Dulce. He died by 'suicide by cop' a few years ago.

Instead they go after some looney (who cant run a skill saw), who got the info "4th hand" at least and comes up with a "fantastical" story of the underworld... That part doesn't click yet for me.

That may be. But don't believe it. I don't believe that Phil Schneider had any first hand information about Dulce.

so I am just playing a little of a devil's advocate role here to find out more if that is okay.

Welcome to ATS.

Also (bear with me as I flip to the other side of the coin here), is it a possibility that you are actually a disinfo agent hired by govt to "knock down" these claims from the inside so to speak? Hehehe...

Anything is possible.

I swear this whole Dulce story could all be a summer blockbuster movie starring Will Smith and Bruce Willis...

No, the real Dulce story would not be a summer blockbuster. It would be boring everyday genetic experiments with humans and animals and stuff like that. Stick with Men in Black and Men in Black II for the real action.

Thank you for such a great reply John! You are very thorough. I am honored to be conversing with a conspiracy-celebrity superstar such as yourself. I humbly respect your career achievements, knowledge, and your opinions.
If I may ask, in recent posts you have been saying that Phil Schneider got the Dulce Labs info from you and fabricated his story from your info. Essentially saying that he is a total fraud and fake. However in this recent August 2006 (I think) video (about 14 minutes in or a bit more), you suggest that you wish you would have listened to Phil's story a little more, because he had a great story, and also say that "...they got Phil because he was there...". I take it that means that "they" got Phil for telling the story from "first hand experience" information.
Anyway, I was just wondering what may have happened recently that altered your opinion of Phil Schnieder so?

Thanks John! Also, have you considered doing a weekly "VideoCast" for us here at ATS? Each week, you could do a 5-10 minute clip on one of your great experiences, or bits of knowledge. One week could be about how we got the technology for printed circuit boards, the next week about the 4th astronaut, etc...

Hehehe... you say your garage is full of files and information... Can you post all that here? J/k... But it sure would be cool to hear alot more about what you got stored away, may have to say, or just general interesting stories from your busy life and career...

Originally posted by IronDogg
Essentially saying that he is a total fraud and fake. However in this recent August 2006 (I think) video (about 14 minutes in or a bit more), you suggest that you wish you would have listened to Phil's story a little more, because he had a great story, and also say that "...they got Phil because he was there...". I take it that means that "they" got Phil for telling the story from "first hand experience" information.
Anyway, I was just wondering what may have happened recently that altered your opinion of Phil Schnieder so?

I talked to a source after I made that statement. I believe now that Phil Schneider was a fraud. The way I change my mind is a never ending irritation to some who say, "Wait a minute, one minute ago you said..." Unofrtunately one minute ago I well might have said....but now I believe differently. Knowledge is being able to continually absorb and evaluate information. I am in it for ME. Not for anybody else.

Hehehe... you say your garage is full of files and information... Can you post all that here? J/k...

I don't have time. But anybody who wants to volunteer is welcome to come in and start typing. You can't use my computer but we can hook you up to the internet.

But it sure would be cool to hear alot more about what you got stored away, may have to say, or just general interesting stories from your busy life and career...

thanks.

Originally posted by johnlear
I told the story to Cooper after I met him on Paranet during the summer of 1988. He drove to Vegas from L.A. and I gave him a copy of everything I had including the Dulce papers which I had written.

Schneider used copies of those papers to make up his story starting I believe in the early 90's. He could have easily gotten copies of any of the papers, including the Dulce papers which by then had been published in Matrix 1 by Val Valerian (John Grace).

So the Entire Dulce story was created by John Lear!

The above paragraphs basically seem to say two key things:

* Cooper got his information on Dulce from John
* Phil Schnider got a Copy of the Papers John Lear wrote and published on Dulce. Phil then built has own story on these document.

John, did I misunderstand you, or did you just confess to creating one of the biggest Conspiracy Stories of all time?

Tim

you do not read what is written, just what you want. you draw conclusions and from them them derive opinions and state them as facts. i nearly every thread you display your infantile train of thought and use it to explain that everyone is a fraud.

whether or not the dulce story is true:
the abovementioned discusses the dulce papers. they were written after the initial 5 sets of documents/photos were distributed by someone who supposedly worked there.

get your act together, timmy. If youre so adament about proving it doesnt exist, go to any ol garden shop, buy a spade, drive to dulce and start digging.

Shadow Fax,
In my opinion, you are both incorrect, and ignorant.

Tim has asked a legitimate, and honest question.

To belittle him is wrong. Wrong, I say.

If we were in a public setting, and you made such a statement about anyone, you Sir, would have a crippled guy show you who is wrong.

Since this is a forum, all I can do is call you out.

Prove your statements, or apologise to Tim.

Lex

Hehehe... you say your garage is full of files and information... Can you post all that here? J/k...

I don't have time. But anybody who wants to volunteer is welcome to come in and start typing. You can't use my computer but we can hook you up to the internet.

ughhh i wish i lived in Vegas. Somebody get your ass to John's house and type away!

Hi Lex

Originally posted by Lexion
Shadow Fax,
In my opinion, you are both incorrect, and ignorant.

how am i incorrect and ignorant?

Tim has asked a legitimate, and honest question.

To belittle him is wrong. Wrong, I say.

oh? you just said im ignorant, how is that different?

If we were in a public setting, and you made such a statement about anyone, you Sir, would have a crippled guy show you who is wrong.

are you suggesting it is worse to be corrected by a crippled man as opposed to a an able-bodied man? thats fairly condescending. Maybe you formulated that inaccurately?

Since this is a forum, all I can do is call you out.

Prove your statements, or apologise to Tim.

Lex

i did in the initial post. the timeline that is used as a backup of his question is incomplete. And because his presence in the Dulce threads is so prelevant, i think he either forgot about those sets of documents on purpose or by accident.

I believe this is the timeline, but its not unlikely its incorrect as well:
JL was contacted about those doc's/dulce in 87, spent a load of time hunting the documents down and wrote the dulce papers in 88 (if memory serves me correct). that means the original docs were assembled before 87 and that also means that if the story was made up, than its most likely made up by someone else rather that JL, perhaps the person that contacted him in 87?

Nonetheless, Tim starts his post with: "So the Entire Dulce story was created by John Lear!" thereby stating fact, where its not yet a fact, merely an opinion derived from incomplete facts.

now tell me Lex, how am i incorrect? or ignorant?

From what I understand Cooper dismissed all matters ET as disinfo in the late 90's.The craft he described in Behold the pale Rider he wrote off as ours.He also claimed the driver, Greer,shot JFK with a special air powered 45acp.That story was pretty debunked from my understanding.His death seemed to be a set up,as the cops went to issue him a warrant at 11pm.

Originally posted by shadow fax
Hi Lex

Originally posted by Lexion
Shadow Fax,
In my opinion, you are both incorrect, and ignorant.

how am i incorrect and ignorant?

Tim has asked a legitimate, and honest question.

To belittle him is wrong. Wrong, I say.

oh? you just said im ignorant, how is that different?

If we were in a public setting, and you made such a statement about anyone, you Sir, would have a crippled guy show you who is wrong.

are you suggesting it is worse to be corrected by a crippled man as opposed to a an able-bodied man? thats fairly condescending. Maybe you formulated that inaccurately?

Since this is a forum, all I can do is call you out.

Prove your statements, or apologise to Tim.

Lex

i did in the initial post. the timeline that is used as a backup of his question is incomplete. And because his presence in the Dulce threads is so prelevant, i think he either forgot about those sets of documents on purpose or by accident.

Strange, because my post is based on the thread up to that point! You are taking cheap shots here by dodging my point entirely. I was confused by the post that started this whole discussion. What I read seemed to say John had written the documents. I was looking for clarification.

I believe this is the timeline, but its not unlikely its incorrect as well:
JL was contacted about those doc's/dulce in 87, spent a load of time hunting the documents down and wrote the dulce papers in 88 (if memory serves me correct). that means the original docs were assembled before 87 and that also means that if the story was made up, than its most likely made up by someone else rather that JL, perhaps the person that contacted him in 87?

Exactally why are incorrect timelines being used to prove events? That does not make much sense.

Nonetheless, Tim starts his post with: "So the Entire Dulce story was created by John Lear!" thereby stating fact, where its not yet a fact, merely an opinion derived from incomplete facts.

That's what it seemed to be saying!

John Lear appears to being saying in his last post that both Cooper and Schneider got their information form him. Now that things have cooled a bit, may I ask you to join me in revisiting an old thread:

Where did the Dulce Story Come From

The point hammered over and over in that thread is that Phil Schnider started the Dulce Story as we know it.

I will however admit that I just noticed one thing I had missed before:

Bennewitz had been interested in UFOs, and had conducted his own investigations into the subject. He became convinced that the so-called Cattle mutilations were due to aliens after he met Myrna Hansen, who was hypnotized by University of Wyoming psychologist R. Leo Sprinkle. Under hypnosis, Hansen offered a detailed account of being kidnapped by aliens and taken to an underground base in what she thought was New Mexico;

The Problem is that all this is really saying is that Bennewitz met a woman who under hypnosis claimed to have been taken to an underground base she Thought was in New Mexico.

How exactly did we jump from veigue information on a military base to the huge story that everyone on ATS is running around with. This little snippit in itself doesn't constitiute the Dulce Story everyone is talking about now with the multi-level UFO base, ET's, and all the other Junk people are talking about.

What the thread also seem to be saying is that our very own Mr. John Lear heard about this encounter and put it together with a large collection of other UFO reports he has filed away. This suggest that the Dulce Story was built from John's private UFO files. Which lead back to my origional post about John creating the Dulce Story.

now tell me Lex, how am i incorrect? or ignorant?

I'm not Lex, but I'll answer both questions for you:

You said I used incomplete facts: On the contrary, I've been pulling together inforation from every thread ATS has on the subject as well as some other online sources. You might wish to point out that these facts are not complete. I will point out to you that based on the information avalible, these facts are pretty complete! Like anything connected to an alleged conspiracy, Noone EVER has ALL of the FACTS!

Even more well known topics such as the history of Groom Lake A.K.A. Area 51 is full of things we still do Not know. To expect someone to have all of the facts and details on anything discussed on ATS is both Foolish and Arrogent! You have insaulted people in your effort to prove your oppinion, also arrogent.

Also, I Never denyed that others didn't give John ideas that he worked off of. Almost every idea has it's origins in another idea.

Here's a Quick Recap of the post:

-John Lear started off collecting UFO and and Alien Abduction reports

-Amoug them is a story about a lady who was abducted and taken to what she believed to be New Mexico

-John reviews these reports and peices together details that the stories have in common (This is how all researcher compile data)

- John Identifed a Focal Point of UFO/ET activity around Dulce NM.

-Based on his finding, John concludes that there is a large underground base in Dulce!

- Mr. Lear creates the "Dulce Papers" detailing an alleged secret facilty in Dulce NM.

This takes us back to my Origional Post! John built the Dulce story off of a collection of reports. This story was written down in the Dulce Papers, which where then passed on to others like Phil Schnider and Cooper.

Hence, we return to the conclusion which started this whole debate: John Lear Created the Dulce Story!

The fact that John used scraps of second hand info from other folks to build on doesn't in ANY WAY change that fact! If anything, it supports it by proving how he was able to do it so well.

Now shadow fax, I believe I have PROVEN my point for the Second time. I believe you owe a few appolagies!

Tim

P.S. I am an Adult, please do Not adderss me as if I were a child (I go by Tim NOT timmy.)

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