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A question for the religious types

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posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by john_bmth
In ur eyes, would this person be "damned" in the eyes of ur chosen deity?


Salvation can only be found through Jesus Christ....




posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by kinglizard
Salvation can only be found through Jesus Christ....


Is that your belief, or do you know it from your experience? I thought that many different faiths had NDEs of heaven, not just those who believe in Christ?

Edit, it comes across as a bit harsh, but i can't see any other way to put the point across.

[edit on 29-1-2007 by apex]



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by apex
Is that your belief, or do you know it from your experience? I thought that many different faiths had NDEs of heaven, not just those who believe in Christ?

Edit, it comes across as a bit harsh, but i can't see any other way to put the point across.


kl holds that s/he has personally had an NDE
however
all NDEs are pretty invalid as far as evidence goes
there is no way to actually verify most of the claims about the person
such as:
whether or not they were actually dead
whether the visions were a product of brain trauma
etc

no NDEs involve strict observation of the patient, because that would involve inducing the experience
and that's just cruel



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
you could say any atheist doesn't understand god and therefore gets to heaven through virtue


Hmmmmmmmmm .... I suppose so. I suppose if it was taken far enough it could be said that anyone who rejects God is really rejecting something based upon limited information and doesn't really know what they are doing. I think you found a loophole madness ...

At any rate, we agree on this I think - If someone hates God and rejects Him, that person wouldn't want to be in heaven anyways.



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 03:19 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
kl holds that s/he has personally had an NDE
however
all NDEs are pretty invalid as far as evidence goes
no NDEs involve strict observation of the patient


Well its one of the closer things to actual evidence that there is though, surely.

And there is some observation of the patient from a medical perspective, though what observation you could use for proof i don't know.



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 03:42 PM
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Originally posted by wellwhatnow
You make a huge assumption here. My organized religion says that people should “uncover the secrets of the universe from within their own being.” Other than some general guidelines for social responsibility, we are taught to not conform to someone else’s ideas of spirituality.

[edit on 1/27/07 by wellwhatnow]


What faith are you? It almost sounds like it was cut out of my own spirituality



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Anyone who rejects God doesn't go to heaven. Period. WHY would anyone who rejects God even want to go there anyways? It is God's home and He is there in all His Majesty. That would drive someone who rejects him bonkers ....



Flyers,I really have to take issue with this idea.. If it is assumed, as it is by me, that God is loving,compassionate,peaceful, et cetera, how would it be that anyone would be driven "bonkers" by his presence? I don't see that at all.. Regardless of whether someone believes or not, I would think that they would want to be in the presence of peace and love.



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
What faith are you?


I am a Unitarian Universalist.

It’s not for everybody, but personally I think it’s awesome to be in church with atheists, Jews, Buddhists, Pagans, those who were raised Catholic, etc - and for us all to find common ground while we seek our own paths.

The non-judgmental support and the incredible diversity (of both people and thought) provide quite an experience.

It is not automatically assumed that every person's goal is the Christian concept of Heaven, therefore we have our own goals and we must find our own way to reach them.

I found it interesting that the OP did not specify the goal of the person that was described, yet a few assumed that Christian Heaven is the only possible goal.

[edit on 1/29/07 by wellwhatnow]



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by wellwhatnow

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
What faith are you?


I am a Unitarian Universalist.



Ahhh,yes,I have heard of them... They are something similar to the Quakers... maybe not quite the same lifestyle but some of their beliefs, namely universalism, are the same.



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Flyers,I really have to take issue with this idea.. If it is assumed, as it is by me, that God is loving,compassionate,peaceful, et cetera, how would it be that anyone would be driven "bonkers" by his presence? I don't see that at all.. Regardless of whether someone believes or not, I would think that they would want to be in the presence of peace and love.

Well, if you love God and love Jesus like you say, then you must have read the NT.
Jesus makes it very clear that those that reject God and his teachings will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. He is loving, compassionate, peaceful, but he is also just, and He has rules to follow. You can want to be in the presence of peace and love all you want, but if you don't follow God's rules when you die you will not be in the presence of peace and love at all. Actually, you'll go bonkers in Hell.
"I am the Lord, your God. You shall have no other gods besides Me."



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Religion is there to control the masses. Religion is there to keep you from seeing the truth.

When the Romans couldn't kill the truth by killing the Christians they meerly formed the Catholic Church and brought the so called Mysteries from the religion of Babylon into Christianity.
The Roman Church is Mystery Babylon of the book of Revelation. They bring you a religion of works instead of the truth.

Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism etc all come from Babylon.

Religion is out to control the masses. It seeks to hide the true narrow path.

Wow. You really hate Catholics. Let me guess, all Catholics are secretly satanists trying to bring down all of Christianity? If so, they better get to it.

And Hinduism, Islam etc isn't from Babylon.

p.s. I'm a Christian just to let you know Sun. (So you don't call me a devil worshiper)



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by TurningOverFriday

Wow. You really hate Catholics.


Not hardly. I have a great love for Catholics. I was raised Catholic. I understand the struggle.



Let me guess, all Catholics are secretly satanists trying to bring down all of Christianity?

Nope. Most Catholics are merely blind to what their religion is serving. They are blind to the history of their religion. I made a decision to find out about what I was raised into. I wanted to know if what I was taught was the truth or not. I'm open minded. What I found is that there is no Purgatory. There is no mortal or veniel sins. God says if you break one part of the law you have broken all the law. I found out where the sacraments came form and what the rosary is and what the Crusades were and etc. etc. etc. etc. I didn't like what I found. I did't like when I found out that the Jewish Pentecost was changed by the Romans to honor Semiramis at the spring harvest on Easter who is Astarte, or Ishtar or Isis or Estora or MaDonna or Diana or etc. ect. ect. ect.
I didn't like when I found out that the day of worshiping God was changed from the Sabath to SUNday in honor of Baal which means Lord.........hence the Lords day.

So the next time you participate in Lent please realize that lent comes straight from Babylon and it is a time of 40 days of weeping for the death of Tammuz who is Nimrod reincarnated. Tammuz was killed by a wild boar, so if you happen to be eating a traditional Easter ham on Easter you now know why.


And Hinduism, Islam etc isn't from Babylon.

Certainly most people would agree with you. I took the time to find the truth. You might study up on the origin of Allah.


p.s. I'm a Christian just to let you know Sun. (So you don't call me a devil worshiper)

I'm glad you are a Christian. I suggest that you take the time to find out what you are being taught. Just do something like research the origin of Lent which I already started. He is a question for you. If God says that he would restore the Jews to their land which happened in May 15, 1948 and if God says that the Jews land is not to be divided in JOEL 3 how come the Vatican has not recognized the Nation of Israel??????????? Do they disagree with God????? And on a side note, why did the Vatican support the Nazis?



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 04:03 AM
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Sun - If every religion stems from babylon then what about this???


afrol News, 1 December - Archaeologists have discovered what seems to be remains of the world's earliest religious worship site in the remote Ngamiland region of Botswana. Here, our ancestors performed advanced rituals, worshipping the python some 70,000 years ago. The sensational discovery strengthens Africa's position as the cradle of modern man.


Hmmmm 'earliest religious worship'...... 70,000 years. I really dont think that the babylonians were around at that time do you? Remember not all religions worship the same type of god that the monotheists worship.


G



posted on Jan, 30 2007 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by shihulud
ex]
Hmmmm 'earliest religious worship'...... 70,000 years. I really dont think that the babylonians were around at that time do you? Remember not all religions worship the same type of god that the monotheists worship.



Hmmm 70,000 years. I really don't think that date is correct. I did notice the PYTHON being worshipped though. That is a fact and not speculation. We can see the same serpent in the Hindu snake charmers and you might check out the Egyptians also. Same goes for the Western Pyramids.

The snake is a common theme. I wonder what god he represents?????????



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 04:51 AM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix

Originally posted by shihulud
ex]
Hmmmm 'earliest religious worship'...... 70,000 years. I really dont think that the babylonians were around at that time do you? Remember not all religions worship the same type of god that the monotheists worship.



Hmmm 70,000 years. I really don't think that date is correct. I did notice the PYTHON being worshipped though. That is a fact and not speculation. We can see the same serpent in the Hindu snake charmers and you might check out the Egyptians also. Same goes for the Western Pyramids.

The snake is a common theme. I wonder what god he represents?????????

Well it wont be satan anyway - a bit to early for that kind of thinking. Even if it was half of the 70,000 years would still put it out of the Babylonians range.
Look dont get me wrong I happen to agree with you on some points on religions being babylonian in origin but just not all religions or all of a single religion.

G



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 10:55 AM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
how would it be that anyone would be driven "bonkers" by his presence? I don't see that at all.. Regardless of whether someone believes or not, I would think that they would want to be in the presence of peace and love.


Some people hate peace and love. To be around it is like itching powder.

If someone hates God and rejects him. Why would they want to spend eternity with someone, or something, that they hate and reject? God is HUGE .. MAJESTIC .. and we are very tiny. Why would a tiny little thing want to be around something it hates .. and be around it forever?

It would drive that tiny thing mad.



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 10:57 AM
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Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Most Catholics are merely blind to what their religion is serving.

I'm not going to get into this because it's off topic and it's been discussed to death on other threads.


why did the Vatican support the Nazis?

It didn't. Go watch The Scarlet and the Black.

Check these out -

Akin, Jimmy. "How Pius XII Protected Jews" (at www.catholic.com).

Bottum, Joseph, and Rabbi David G. Dalin, eds. The Pius War: Responses to the Critics of Pius XII. Lanham, Md.: Lexington Books, 2004.

Dalin, Rabbi David G. The Myth of Hitler’s Pope: How Pope Pius XII Rescued Jews from the Nazis. Washington, D.C.: Regnery, 2005.

Rychlak, Ronald J., and Michael Novak. Righteous Gentiles: How Pius XII and the Catholic Church Saved Half a Million Jews from the Nazis. Dallas: Spence, 2005.



[edit on 1/31/2007 by FlyersFan]



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by rocknroll
but if you don't follow God's rules when you die you will not be in the presence of peace and love at all.


*SHRUG* That's your belief and you're entitled to it.

[edit on 31-1-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Jan, 31 2007 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
*SHRUG* That's your belief and you're entitled to it.


very mature there speaker
even though you tend to get kicked around a lot by both sides
you maintain a composure that is truely an example for other posters



posted on Feb, 1 2007 @ 06:09 PM
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TRANSLATION

You get kicked around alot by both sides, but when the day is over, you'll be riding home with me.




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