Where do you think Atlantis is or was?

Originally posted by Royal76

Who's to say that what we call Mars, was not once called Atlantis..or something close to it.

well Plato for one
then theres Historians
Scientists
Linguists
Genetecists
Anthropologists
Archaeologists
Geologists
Astronomers
this list is by no means exhaustive
but you know
it could be

then you have to balance all those qualified experts with the people who would say that Mars was once called Atlantis

I don't know anyone who'd actually seriously claim that
do you ?

Originally posted by Marduk
I don't know anyone who'd actually seriously claim that
do you ?

You know a man who would not claim, but at least would not deny it.
Yes, right guess.
That would be me

there are no Historical facts indicating that Mars could have been once Atlandis, but as long as there are no evidence Atlandis is on earth (accuse archeology for that) then rightfully anyone can sharpen his imagination

and do not say that Plato is an evidence for 100%, becouse i have seen you many times calling him out (!) mythicizer...

Originally posted by Royal76
Who's to say that what we call Mars, was not once called Atlantis..or something close to it.

Perhaps

In his epic Odyssey, Homer refers to this Atlas as "one who knows the depths of the whole sea, and keeps the tall pillars who hold heaven and earth asunder".
[Wiki: Atlas]

Atlandis

If Atlantis was Mars, that means it was the Martians who were defeated by a small Athenian army using simple bronze age weapons ...... And given that the Alanteans also only had bronze age technology, how exactly did they get to the Mediterranean? Hmmm, a wooden spaceship powered by slave oarsmen .....

Originally posted by Essan
Hmmm, a wooden spaceship powered by slave oarsmen .....

posted by Dragonlike
and do not say that Plato is an evidence for 100%, becouse i have seen you many times calling him out (!) mythicizer...

Its Harte that calls Platos dialogues total mythology
I frequently say that Plato is the only credible source on Atlantis
and he doesn't mention Mars
and he did know about the planet
the greeks called it Aries
they heard about it from the Babylonians who called it Nergal
so
pffft
no way it was ever on another planet because like Essan said
how did they get here
you're right though
some Hollywood director probably would like the idea of Atlantis being on another planet
if they could get round the fact that the idea has already been done to death

whargoul
Stargate is a movie and a TV show not evidence. There is no evidence we ever came from Mars, or were engineered by aliens. We seem to be 100% terrestial whether we like it or not. We evolved from the earthly animals against the fundamentalists best wishes

I'm not saying that we are definitely from Mars and that Mars was Atlantis.

I'm saying that what about the possibility. Are you seriously telling me that we know everything about ourselves, our past that can possibly be known

Marduk

Those are the same qualified experts that once believed to the death that the world was flat, the moon was made out of cheese, the earth was the center of the universe. That Dinosaurs died because of Disease, God, Earthquakes, Ice Age, Aliens, Meteors,etc.

The theories change and change over time as new evidence shows its self. Who's to say what the next evidence will show.

I'm sorry I know you directed this to Marduk, but what you are saying is patently untrue!

It is a common misconception that people didn't believe the Earth was round just a few centuries ago. The fact is that the scholarly have know this since at least the early greeks! AND that we orbit the Sun, not the other way around! It was just Europeans forcing their religious intolerance throughout the dark ages that made that info go "underground" but it was not in any way lost knowledge.

And yes, we do know a lot about our origins. Biology shows that we are terrestial creatures! The fact that our DNA uses the same building blocks as every other creature on Earth shows that we are terrestrial creatures! Everything about our bodies all the way down to the cellular level shows an affinity to Earth. We "grew up" here, it's to bad that is not good enough for some people but there is no denying it.

Please pull out the 25 hour circadian cycle next, that's a good one! It can go next round.

I am not trying to "rag on you" I am just trying to tell you your wrong and no matter how much you don't want to be, that fact wont change. Atlantis being anywhere is a far stretch, but I am going to say that Atlantis being Mars is an impossibility.

I like the Straight Dope, because Cecil speaks directly and doesn't beat around the bush! Here's what he had to say about Atlantis:

www.straightdope.com...

Now ask yourself how silly it is to think Atlantis is in North Dakota? That's how silly I think it is to think it is anywhere! If it's not in the Mediteranian or just outside it in the Atlantic it was probably made up. Well, it turns out after some searching that it wasn't in the Med, or just outside it in the Atlantic... SO...

And the argument about Troy "no one thought Troy was real until it was found..." well that's bull too! I don't think really knowledgeable prople ever thought that. I think it was always known to be in Turkey around where it was found. They just didn't know where exactly. Can that be said about Atlantis (obviously not or this thread would be moot)? Troy was to well established: built 7 times (there is like 7 layers of city there and Troy Troy is like number 3 or 4 or something; maybe 5, I dunno point is it wasn't the first and not the last) and is situated on an awesome trade route connecting Europe to Asia! A place like that is remembered! It just got misplaced...

Atlantis was mentioned once by some guy 2500 years ago and that's it?

Here's what I want to know. What other cities were around at the same time? Could there really have been an Athens for the Atlantians to fight? From what I understand Atlantis was distroyed around 9000BCE right? Isn't that pretty much the dawn of civilization as we know it?

I'm sorry I know you directed this to Marduk, but what you are saying is patently untrue!

It is a common misconception that people didn't believe the Earth was round just a few centuries ago. The fact is that the scholarly have know this since at least the early greeks! AND that we orbit the Sun, not the other way around! It was just Europeans forcing their religious intolerance throughout the dark ages that made that info go "underground" but it was not in any way lost knowledge.

And yes, we do know a lot about our origins. Biology shows that we are terrestial creatures! The fact that our DNA uses the same building blocks as every other creature on Earth shows that we are terrestrial creatures! Everything about our bodies all the way down to the cellular level shows an affinity to Earth. We "grew up" here, it's to bad that is not good enough for some people but there is no denying it.

Please pull out the 25 hour circadian cycle next, that's a good one! It can go next round.

I am not trying to "rag on you" I am just trying to tell you your wrong and no matter how much you don't want to be, that fact wont change. Atlantis being anywhere is a far stretch, but I am going to say that Atlantis being Mars is an impossibility.

I like the Straight Dope, because Cecil speaks directly and doesn't beat around the bush! Here's what he had to say about Atlantis:

www.straightdope.com...

Now ask yourself how silly it is to think Atlantis is in North Dakota? That's how silly I think it is to think it is anywhere! If it's not in the Mediteranian or just outside it in the Atlantic it was probably made up. Well, it turns out after some searching that it wasn't in the Med, or just outside it in the Atlantic... SO...

And the argument about Troy "no one thought Troy was real until it was found..." well that's bull too! I don't think really knowledgeable prople ever thought that. I think it was always known to be in Turkey around where it was found. They just didn't know where exactly. Can that be said about Atlantis (obviously not or this thread would be moot)? Troy was to well established: built 7 times (there is like 7 layers of city there and Troy Troy is like number 3 or 4 or something; maybe 5, I dunno point is it wasn't the first and not the last) and is situated on an awesome trade route connecting Europe to Asia! A place like that is remembered! It just got misplaced...

Atlantis was mentioned once by some guy 2500 years ago and that's it?

Here's what I want to know. What other cities were around at the same time? Could there really have been an Athens for the Atlantians to fight? From what I understand Atlantis was distroyed around 9000BCE right? Isn't that pretty much the dawn of civilization as we know it?

Originally posted by whargoul
And yes, we do know a lot about our origins. Biology shows that we are terrestial creatures! The fact that our DNA uses the same building blocks as every other creature on Earth shows that we are terrestrial creatures! Everything about our bodies all the way down to the cellular level shows an affinity to Earth. We "grew up" here, it's to bad that is not good enough for some people but there is no denying it.

Biology says that? fossils show that!
and i am not sure about it.
If Mars had been a life-sustainable planet then we could expect trees, creeks, rivers, waterfalls, even seas.
In a matter of speaking, we could have a neighbour earth.
I agree that our DNA have the same building blocks, but what about the animals of mythology?
Dragons ,
Centaurs,
Harpy,
Minotaurs,
Mermaids,
Satyrs,
Sphinx,
Typhon,
Aracoix

What if these were animals in Mars and the rest transfered here on earth along with the survivors of Mars. The rest that didn't survived became mythology.

Wiki: Mars

Although Mars has no intrinsic magnetic field, observations show that parts of the planet's crust have been magnetized.

The theory about electromagnetic coils

Mars lost its magnetosphere 4 billion years ago

Wiki:Human/Evolution

It has been estimated that the human lineage diverged from that of chimpanzees about five million years ago, and from gorillas about eight million years ago

If ever advanced life had been there on Mars, they should have been post-apes...
A planet of the apes!!!

Originally posted by whargoulHere's what I want to know. What other cities were around at the same time? Could there really have been an Athens for the Atlantians to fight? From what I understand Atlantis was distroyed around 9000BCE right? Isn't that pretty much the dawn of civilization as we know it?

Wiki: History of Athens
(at least what archeology has to tell us)

Athens began its history as a Neolithic hill-fort on top of the Acropolis ("high city"), some time in the third millennium BC.

So did they really fought with the Atlandean?
www.sikyon.com...

The initial name of Athens was Akte or Aktike, named after the first king, Akteos. Her second name, Kekropia, received it from the king, Kekrops, who succeeded Akteos, by marrying his daughter. According to the legend, his lower body was that of a dragon.

Actually the today Athens is the city with the name Kekropia!!! not Athens!!!

Athena and Poseidon were competing for the protection of the city and each one offered presents

Poseidon------->protector of Atlandis
Athena---------> protector of (?)

Atlandis and an other Empire have been fighting to convert the colony of Kekropia(Later Athens)!!!
It seems that Kekropians prefered to be under the protection of Athena and changed their city's name into Athens to honour her.

Plato must have been a little off time, IMHO

He is speaking of a town after the destruction of Atlandis...
...mmmm
Apparently an other city with the name Athens existed
if we take Plato's words
for granded




[edit on 11-4-2007 by Dragonlike]

Originally posted by Royal76
I'm saying that what about the possibility. Are you seriously telling me that we know everything about ourselves, our past that can possibly be known

Well, we DO know that Martian gravity is 1/3 that of Earth and the composition is quite different (almost no oxygen and all carbon dioxide in the atmosphere). And we know it's been that way for quite awhile.

So Martians that invaded the Earth (and why pick on Athens when there's lots of other places?) would spend all of their time falling down and crawling around. And trying to breathe (you can't get air into lungs that are being crushed by gravity.)

Mars is an interesting planet. I hope you'll go read up on some of the astronomical data on it and not rely on the Alternative History stuff. Too many of those people make things up.

After looking at an aerial view of the island of Madeira is there a possibility the way that it is laid out and considering that the region is a volcanic region is it possible that a major volcano was in the center of the island causing it to look like rings as the out reaching sides of the island look almost like a star.

My best bet for the location of Atlantis if it ever existed is the Azores. There is some good reading here and maps.
Theres some stunning photo's of Alto Pico, one of the volcanic mountains here. Just because they look nice and the view of the mountain from the sea is how i would imagine Atlantis looking if you were approaching it.
The Azores makes more sense to me than any other option.

Things having this nature, those living by the Nile were spared when the world was destroyed by fire, and when it was destroyed by water they were also spared because rain is scarce in Egypt, the water welling up always from below. In this way, says the Egyptian priest, memories of ancient times could be preserved in this country while all records were destroyed elsewhere. And while in other countries the periodical destruction caused irreparable losses, in Egypt it was possible to keep records of very ancient times. It is in Egypt of ancient times that occultism thrived. An accumulation of knowledge understandable only by the clerks of the state whereas the poor people of every walk of life in the Egyptian society didn’t even knew the basics of writing. A knowledge mystic from the many, hidden for the few.
Wiki source: Kritias

Critias was a very dark person in Athenian history. After the fall of Athens to the Spartans he blacklisted many of its citizens as a leading member of the Thirty Tyrants. Most of his prisoners were executed and their wealth was confiscated. He proved to be a tormented personality with many complexes and much hatred.

Kritias was a tyrant, a pawn to preserve stability at the newly conquered Athens by the Spartans and by all means he was the right man to fulfill such a task. If we compare him with Hitler, it’s easily distinguishable a gathering of the people around common, heroic, ethnical, epic, idealistic ideas. Hitler had been speaking of the Great Germany while thousands of people were looking at him at a total awe without even comprehending what was all about. The same, in my humble opinion, did Kritias as a way for his subdued citizens to accept Spartans’ new order, if not to serve his purpose to gather all the axioms of the state into one person. Himself. Something that even the murder of his best friend and fellow tyrant at the same time wasn’t enough to stop him. I would wager that ‘’My struggle’’ (Hitlers book) could be a variation of Kritias’ book. A book of a true tyrant for tyranny. Unfortunately, his book not saved until our times.
Kritias should have learn the existence of this empire by Plato, a man who traveled at egypt and spoke to the priests. Herodotus visited as well Egypt but a century ago and he didn’t recorded anything in his writings which means he was not tended to mysticism, occultism and metaphysical as plato was, or… he was not initiated into their Egypt secret society…
Socrates is sayin’: ‘’When did our city performed such a great deeds’’ in response to Critias about the athenaen victory over the atlandean. Socrates was the man to question tyranny in Athens as once some people questioned Hitler’s policy, gatherings and speeches. These people had the same fate with Socrates. Confined, executed and… poisoned
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Wiki source: Hollow earth

Edmund Halley in 1692 (Philosophical Transactions of Royal Society of London) put forth the idea of Earth consisting of a hollow shell about 500 miles (800 km) thick, two inner concentric shells and an innermost core, about the diameters of the planets Venus, Mars, and Mercury. Atmospheres separate these shells, and each shell has its own magnetic poles. The spheres rotate at different speeds. Halley proposed this scheme in order to explain anomalous compass readings. He envisaged the atmosphere inside as luminous (and possibly inhabited) and speculated that escaping gas caused the Aurora Borealis.

The module of Hollow earth Edmund Halley promotes is in a way pretty much the same as the harbor or the city plan of Atlandis. Seismic catastrophes, volcanic eruptions, a giant surge that literally swallowed Atlandis can be considered as a civilization thrived inside our earth. It is common truth the inner ocean found inside our planet with approximately the size of Europe and North America. Besides, the empire Atlandis was considered to stretches over the size of Libya and Asia. But below earth.
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Wiki source: Thule

Ultima Thule in medieval geographies may also denote any distant place located beyond the "borders of the known world." Some people use Ultima Thule as the Latin name for Greenland when Thule is used for Iceland.

Hitler has been speaking of Thule and Valhala in his speeches. He said ‘’Today Germany endered Valhala’’ in one of his speeches towards the public listening at their leader. We know that Hitler studied occultism. Yes. But this is not enough. Hitler was a member of Thule society. And Valhala in the German pantheon is what Christians call ‘’Heaven’’ or ‘’Paradise’’. The entrance to Valhala is accessible through two pillars (borders of the known world), as we see in the map. Probably, there had been a portion of truth, despite the propaganda, in Hitler’s words about ‘’Germany entered Valhala’’, meaning that some expeditions managed to find the admission to the Hollow Earth. Ultima Thule = Valhala according to Hitler.
Wiki source: Valhala

The main gate is called Valgrind, which is described in Grímnismál as a "sacred gate", behind which are the "holy doors" and "there are few who can tell the manner by which it is locked".

And while in other countries the periodical destruction caused irreparable losses, in Egypt it was possible to keep records of very ancient times

except that there was no egyptian civilisation until around 3500bce and no way of writing anything down until 3300bce and no kingship (i.e. real organisation) until 3100bce
but apart from that your theory is solid

Originally posted by Marduk
except that there was no egyptian civilisation until around 3500bce and no way of writing anything down until 3300bce and no kingship (i.e. real organisation) until 3100bce
but apart from that your theory is solid

Unless this knowledge transfered there after Egypt formed as an empire. The library could be the first attempt to classify its records.

A ancient alphabet has been found and successfully translated on six continents. Translations and grammar suggest a global human culture thrived in antiquity.

This alphabet is similar to ancient writing found in other locations around the globe and the author suggests that this is the result of a cultural migration. The Colorado site, located near La Junta, has been dated to before 800 BC. In the Negev desert of Israel, the same alphabet has been meticulously dated to 1500 BC. In South Australia a similar alphabet is estimated to be over 5000 years old. Other evidence has been discovered in Oklahoma, Mexico, Peru, Bolivia, Brazil and in Western Asia

helpful link
As far as this common language, there are more to be translated

In a cartoon recently i watched the ''Atlandis the lost empire'' and in that the atlandeans were speaking a root language of all the world's languages


Perhaps i should not watch too much cartoons with my little brother

After looking at an aerial view of the island of Madeira is there a possibility the way that it is laid out

www.flashearth.com...

Originally posted by Dragonlike
[url=http://www.viewzone.com/expo2002.html]A ancient alphabet has been found and successfully translated on six continents. Translations and grammar suggest a global human culture thrived in antiquity.

Now we're getting into one of my areas of interest and expertise. Those "alphabets" are, frankly, bad fakes. The patina on the rock shows that many are recent carvings done within the last 100 years.

This alphabet is similar to ancient writing found in other locations around the globe and the author suggests that this is the result of a cultural migration. The Colorado site, located near La Junta, has been dated to before 800 BC. In the Negev desert of Israel, the same alphabet has been meticulously dated to 1500 BC. In South Australia a similar alphabet is estimated to be over 5000 years old. Other evidence has been discovered in Oklahoma, Mexico, Peru, Bolivia, Brazil and in Western Asia

Here you're being fooled because they cherry pick a few lines and drawings from sites with thousands of pieces of rock art. They blank out all the rest of the art and focus on a few lines and say "voila!"

But if it was a real language, we'd see things like we do with other literate languages... not a letter here and a few lines there -- we'd see monuments with orderly lines of words (long documents) carved in stone and other material. And all the other material around it would have things written in this alphabet. In fact, all the material in the area would be full of pieces with writing.

They're very sincere folks, but they have fallen prey to some frauds and they don't know much about linguistics.

In a cartoon recently i watched the ''Atlandis the lost empire'' and in that the atlandeans were speaking a root language of all the world's languages

Perhaps i should not watch too much cartoons with my little brother

... or not count on the Cartoon Network as a source of science!

Originally posted by Byrd

... or not count on the Cartoon Network as a source of science!

What, you mean Cow and Chicken are frauds, shame on you Byrd.

Byrd, do you have any info regarding the statue of the rider on the horse found (supposedly) on Corvo, i think, or of the Carthaginian/phoenician coins found in the Azores. This has always interested me yet i cant find much recent research into these artifacts, if they in fact existed.

You have to picture Mars in "Theoritical" Past
- Since we don't really know much about the planet other that what we can see from far off. I'm talking about a Mars that would have looked much like us in the past. One that was destroyed by either themselves (Some kind of superweapon, nukes,etc), or by natural phenomenom (Meteor, comet,etc).

How can you really say with a Certainty that:

A. Mars couldn't have been Atlantis

B. That Mars couldn't have supported life

I know its a desolet desert with no atmosphere. But maybe it once had one. One that was destroyed.

Royal76 i'm just wondering because by the sound of your post you're quite knowledgable on this martian Atlantis question
have you ever read an ancient text called Critias
theres another one called Timaeus that addresses this martian question of yours
ever seen them ?