Global Warming: Final Verdict

Speaker - You might find this paper interesting...

What if All the Ice Melts?

Darkbluesky,thanks for the link and I certainly will read it...Looks interesting...However, there is one thing that the paper states that I must address:

The solutions to this apparently non-existent problem proposed by environmentalists would not have a significant effect on climate, but they would cause a significant amount of human suffering.

How so? How is it that finding an alternative fuel source will cause human suffering? It may cause suffering for big corporations, but who cares?

I am real quick to label this comment false.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Darkbluesky,thanks for the link and I certainly will read it...Looks interesting...However, there is one thing that the paper states that I must address:

The solutions to this apparently non-existent problem proposed by environmentalists would not have a significant effect on climate, but they would cause a significant amount of human suffering.

How so? How is it that finding an alternative fuel source will cause human suffering? It may cause suffering for big corporations, but who cares?

I am real quick to label this comment false.

Speaker - I think the statement is meant to convey the concept that modern technology, based on our oil based industrial society has vastly improved the living conditions for everyone on the planet. Also assumes that the most talked about method for reducing GW (curtailment of fossil fuel consumption) would be the only feasible response.

Oil powered agricultural equipment and oil powered vehicles (ships, trucks, trains) that allow us to produce almost incomprehensible volumes of food, and allow that food to get to the people who need it before it spoils.

The hydrocarbon based power that refridgerates foods and medicines we all need.

The oil powered equipment that allows very few to provide food for very many, thus freeing everyone else to pursue other goals instead of worrying about feeding themselves and their families.

All this and more, is a result of oil.

Alternatives are great and will be developed when technically, and economically feasible, but not before.

[edit on 1/26/2007 by darkbluesky]

The melting of floating ice will not change sea level: the mass of this ice is equal to that of the water it displaces (watch the water level in a cup of floating ice cubes as they melt).

Source

Well,I can't really argue with that. Ice, when it melts in a glass of liquid does seem to be absorbed into the overall density of the existing liquid.

On the other hand, climate might swing back into another ice age. (In fact, some of the environmentalists now worried about global warming were worried about another ice age in the 1960s and 1970s.)

Source

This is also true. There is a theory that if the earth does warm up, then have a quick cooling period,it could throw us into another ice age type of scenario.

If sea level were 66 meters higher than today, the result would be as illustrated below (for the map I used below see this page):

That looks like a significant difference to me... Not something to make light of..I wouldn't think. I am not clear at what we are looking at here... The one on the Right is north America I presume and the one is Europe... Umm,there certainly is some difference from existing conditions...I am just not sure how much... Maybe I need to get a current global image and compare.

[edit on 26-1-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth


That looks like a significant difference to me... Not something to make light of..I wouldn't think.

But remember...even if it does happen it will be a very slow process...100's of years. Coastlines have been changing since there was liquid water on the planet and they will continue to do so.

Originally posted by darkbluesky
I'm fairly certain that the land, air, and water in this Country is much cleaner

Old Woodsy is still dead: New Woodsy Owl now seriously sucks

Carbon emissions have not declined:


Greenhouse Gas Wiki

1.3 billion Chinese say, "Buy more crap, cause the wind blow east".



China's coasts devastated by pollution, rising sea levels

Air pollution from other countries drifts into USA

Originally posted by Regenmacher
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Old Woodsy is still dead: New Woodsy Owl now seriously sucks

Carbon emissions have not declined:

Carbon emmisions will not decline until the consumption of oil, coal, and methane decline. I don't see this happening until all the oil, methane, and coal is gone. Do you?

Nevertheless, our air, water and land are much cleaner than they were the mid 20th century, aren't they?

In 1967 my town (220,000 population) was dumping all it's sanitary sewage into a river.
That town now treats all it's sanitary sewage AND stormwater to ND levels for all major contaminants. The story is the same all across the US, Canada, Europe....How about China? But wait....No....they are excused because they are developing....they also will not be required to sign onto the Kyoto RIPOFF!

I'm not worried about China. They will follow the same path as the west. Develop.... give your people what they want and need. Pollute in the process...people revolt...people demand clean industry and environment, people submit to the cost of clean industry, pay the price through the cost of goods or tax. Everything works out.

People do not want to live in a toxic environment.

Originally posted by darkbluesky
Nevertheless, our air, water and land are much cleaner than they were the mid 20th century, aren't they?

It's not better here....maybe in your backyard it is.

I would say the conditions of our coastal zones are worse now than they were, and same goes for the air quality in major metro regions. Out where I live, radioactive minerals and heavy metals are leaching into the Colorado River basin where there never wasn't any before. Coastal zones are developing vast dead zones, red tides and algae blooms are occuring more often, 85% of all the large ocean fish are gone, temps are rising, dust storms are more intense, mercury and pcbs are rising, ozone alerts are hitting cities more often, and the West is suffering from 11 years of drought and expanding desertification.


Here's what Phoenix looks like on a hot summer day...I never saw such a thing in the early 90's.

As for Asia and India, they can afford to lose a billion people and still be a labor powerhouse, so I don't see that they are as concerned with epic levels of toxic waste and sky clogging aerosols as we would be.


The Return of America's Dust Bowl Days ATS





[edit on 26-1-2007 by Regenmacher]