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China Soon To Have The Largest On Line Population Along With The Largest Censorship

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posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 04:27 AM
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Originally posted by gs001


At that time, As a student I fighted for freedom and democracy
in company with millions Beijing citizen.
even now, I believe we are right!
Of course, communists are trying to let Chinese people forget about
that incident, so they block anything about that incident on internet.


Gs001,
You were there, wow thanks for letting us know.
The point that was being made is what happened on that day is being blocked, that was the point. I don't know if your aware of this but in the western world the photographs that came out of that are some of the most famos of the last century. I do hope your desire for freedom will continue and all who desire democracy will again find a way to have it.




posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 06:11 AM
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Originally posted by RedGolem
Gs001,
You were there, wow thanks for letting us know.
The point that was being made is what happened on that day is being blocked, that was the point. I don't know if your aware of this but in the western world the photographs that came out of that are some of the most famos of the last century. I do hope your desire for freedom will continue and all who desire democracy will again find a way to have it.

I believe that incident is a national tragedy.
and I think communist also feel guilty of that incident,that is
why they always avoid to mention it and expect people to forget it completely.
I guess the most famous photo you mention is a young man stood in front
of a team of tanks and prevented them from advance?
I was in west Changan street that day, quite near where this happened
but I didn't witness it.
from then on, Communist has changed a lot and Chinese people also has
changed a lot.
I don't think contemporary Chinese people will launch a democratic
movement again.
reason:
1>Communist becmes more and more geniality, people enjoy more and more
freedom and democracy.
2>in the year 1989, Chinese people were poor, we didn't have something to
lose, but now, most of Chinese people have some fortune, like house, car,

insurance, deposit, stock...etc....if China becomes unstable, all these
will lose, So don't expect Chinese people are willing to take this risk.
3>Democratic revolution aroused Russia's collapse, China must learn from
that, we must change our political institution gradually and step by step.
I suspect that it was USA's conspiracy to make Russia collapse by advocated
freedom and democracy to them. right?
4>we'd rather endure a certain extent of autarchy than collapse by other's
conspiracy, I hope when China becomes the strongest country in the world,
we will get everything we want include thorough freedom and democracy.




[edit on 26-1-2007 by gs001]



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 06:41 PM
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GS,
Yes I was referring to the man standing in front of the tanks. It is commonly called the Tank Man.
I was a little surprised when you called it a national tragedy though. That did bring man changes, I do not recall people being hurt but it was a long time ago.
I realize there have been many changes in China since then but I have also heard on the news hear that although much has been granted much has been taken away also. To that point what was being referred to was public education. It was being said that to put some one through primary school would take up an awful lot of some ones income.
I think I can understand why you don't see any further public movement toward democratic government. But you did menchen China becoming a world power or something to that effect. Could you explain what that will intel?


df1

posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by gs001
I believe that incident is a national tragedy.
and I think communist also feel guilty of that incident,that is
why they always avoid to mention it and expect people to forget it completely.

As much as many Americans will deny it, things are not that much different in the US. The events of Kent State May 4, 1970 and Jackson State Ten Days Later are virtually erased from the American conscience. Tiananmen Square will similarly become nothing more than an obscure historical footnote.
.



posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 02:02 AM
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Originally posted by df1

As much as many Americans will deny it, things are not that much different in the US. The events of Kent State May 4, 1970 and Jackson State Ten Days Later are virtually erased from the American conscience.


The difference hear is that any one can look up the events on the web, and a news agency and write about it with out fear of being arrested for doing so.


df1

posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 12:16 PM
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Originally posted by RedGolem
The difference hear is that any one can look up the events on the web, and a news agency and write about it with out fear of being arrested for doing so.

Do you have evidence of even one person in China being persecuted for talking/writing about Tiananmen Square (TS)? Finding 1 example in a population of 3 billion plus should be a cake walk. Surely if the western media is willing to cover "pig picture" censorship in China they would cover censorship of TS.



posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by df1
Do you have evidence of even one person in China being persecuted for talking/writing about Tiananmen Square (TS)? Finding 1 example in a population of 3 billion plus should be a cake walk. Surely if the western media is willing to cover "pig picture" censorship in China they would cover censorship of TS.


lol China has a population around 1.3 billion (some say around 1.5), not 3+ billion.


In January 2006, Google agreed to censor their mainland China site, Google.cn, to remove information about the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre , as well as other topics such as Tibetan independence, the banned spiritual movement Falun Gong and the political status of Taiwan, confirming that Tiananmen is still an issue the government wants to avoid. When people search for it, it will list the following at the bottom of the page in Chinese, "According to the local laws, regulations and policies, part of the searching result is not shown." The uncensored articles on the 1989 protests, both in English and Chinese Wikipedia, have been attributed as a cause of the blocking of Wikipedia by the government in mainland China.History Disappeared


www.reference.com...

And then it goes on to say in China they are barred from making sites about it and stuff, something which American citizens aren't. So for you to say China really isn't much different from America is either ignorant or a mistake like your 3+ billion people remark.


df1

posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 01:40 PM
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Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
China has a population around 1.3 billion (some say around 1.5), not 3+ billion.

I stand corrected, however the basis of the question has still not been refuted. Apparently you can't cite one individual in a population 1 billion plus that was persecuted by the Chinese government because of speaking or writing about the Tiananmen Square massacre, otherwise you wouldn't be referencing stories about Google censorship.

It may be extremely likely that people in China are being persecuted over TS, but at this time we just don't have any facts, save that which our own media spoon feeds to us as fact.
.



posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 01:53 PM
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Originally posted by gs001

I believe that incident is a national tragedy.
and I think communist also feel guilty of that incident,that is
why they always avoid to mention it and expect people to forget it completely.
I guess the most famous photo you mention is a young man stood in front
of a team of tanks and prevented them from advance?
I was in west Changan street that day, quite near where this happened
but I didn't witness it.
from then on, Communist has changed a lot and Chinese people also has
changed a lot.
I don't think contemporary Chinese people will launch a democratic
movement again.
reason:
1>Communist becmes more and more geniality, people enjoy more and more
freedom and democracy.
2>in the year 1989, Chinese people were poor, we didn't have something to
lose, but now, most of Chinese people have some fortune, like house, car,

insurance, deposit, stock...etc....if China becomes unstable, all these
will lose, So don't expect Chinese people are willing to take this risk.
3>Democratic revolution aroused Russia's collapse, China must learn from
that, we must change our political institution gradually and step by step.
I suspect that it was USA's conspiracy to make Russia collapse by advocated

freedom and democracy to them. right?
4>we'd rather endure a certain extent of autarchy than collapse by other's
conspiracy, I hope when China becomes the strongest country in the world,
we will get everything we want include thorough freedom and democracy.
gs001,

I can't help feeling the contradiction in your reply (which I have highlighted).

You advocated that CCP have erred or felt guilty of TAM.. yet you are aware that what would happen to China, should the TAM rioters succeed.. another Russian democratic revolution collapsing China ?

Don't tell me you don't know that US is involved somehow in TAM.. the riot leaders were able to escape from China 24hrs pronto...



posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 02:09 PM
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If the Chinese government thinks they are going to completely censor millions of Chinese users and prevent discussions between nations, they have been smoking too many Afghani poppies.

The internet genie is out of the bottle...too late.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by df1
As much as many Americans will deny it, things are not that much different in the US. The events of Kent State May 4, 1970 and Jackson State Ten Days Later are virtually erased from the American conscience. Tiananmen Square will similarly become nothing more than an obscure historical footnote.


Things are much different in the U.S. I've lived in China for over a year (recently moved to London) and noticed that most Chinese are not willing to talk about what happened at T-square....they usually change the subject and try to dodge any conversation that invloves T-square, talking against the government, etc....

However, in the U.S. we are allowed to talk about the events of Kent state without having to worry about being snatched up by the PAP (People's Armed Police) or some other three lettered agency. That's where we differ. Ok, you won't really get snatched up, but you know what I mean


We do more than talk about it, we make a movie about the damn thing 11 years after it happened
Kent State, 1981

Americans forgot about Kent State because we chose to, not because the government censored it. Like all things in the U.S. media, it just dies out.

gs001 does bring up a good point, most people have the wrong idea of how China is and how the people live. Yeah there's alot of poverty, especially in the country side, but it's not like it was 20 years ago. People have cars, homes, there are department stores, malls, arcades, more gaming cafes than you'll ever see in a lifetime.

Wikipedia is also blocked in China.



[edit on 27/1/2007 by SportyMB]



posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 03:56 PM
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double post


Sporty

[edit on 27/1/2007 by SportyMB]



posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by df1

Do you have evidence of even one person in China being persecuted for talking/writing about Tiananmen Square (TS)?


Not spefically Tiananmen Square but this is the point I have been makeing.


The state often blocks foreign websites and closes down local news outlets with little notice. Dozens of people have been jailed for posting political essays online.

FIP



posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by SportyMB
Wikipedia is also blocked in China.


Doesn't look that way to me and plenty of Wiki hits on China Google.

zh.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 08:17 PM
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gs001,

I can't help feeling the contradiction in your reply (which I have highlighted).

You advocated that CCP have erred or felt guilty of TAM.. yet you are aware that what would happen to China, should the TAM rioters succeed.. another Russian democratic revolution collapsing China ?

Don't tell me you don't know that US is involved somehow in TAM.. the riot leaders were able to escape from China 24hrs pronto...

====================================
At least, shooting Its own people is a crime no matter in what excuse.
I believe Chinese governmnet has noticed that.
I don't know what would happen if democratic movement succeeded in 1989
would we collapse or become more stronger? I don't know.
Any movement is not pure, there must be some organizations involved
somehow in it without invitation, why don't we see the mainstream.


[edit on 27-1-2007 by gs001]



posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by Regenmacher

Originally posted by SportyMB
Wikipedia is also blocked in China.


Doesn't look that way to me and plenty of Wiki hits on China Google.

zh.wikipedia.org...


It's not the same. The english version of wikipedia (www.wikipedia.org) cannot be viewed from China...only the Chinese controlled zh.wikipedia.org... can be viewed. And yeah, do a google search for for anything and you'll be able to view many hits from wikipedia.org, but then when you click the link you get a page cannot be displayed page on your browser.

Try to do a search for tiananmen square in the Chinese wiki link(zh.wikipedia.org...). There's only two hits and neither goes into detail about the events that took place in 1989. Since it's edited by web users, someone edited in "DON'T FORGET THE MASSACRE! PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE AFRAID OF THEIR GOVERNMENTS. GOVENRNMENTS SHOULD BE AFRAID OF THEIR PEOPLE." on the page.....but I'm willing to bet that it'll be gone soon.

According to the wikipedia.org... main page, the Chinese wiki is one of the largest wiki's with over 100,000 entries.....but it's censored and filtered.

I think it's safe to say that ww.wikipedia.org is blocked in China. Why do you think that is?

[edit on 27/1/2007 by SportyMB]



posted on Jan, 27 2007 @ 11:20 PM
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Originally posted by df1

I stand corrected, however the basis of the question has still not been refuted.
.


I am not your student and I don't do assignments to answer questions. I am refuting your statement that China and the US really aren't that different. What I posted supported my view.



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