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Using sex to sell religion...

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posted on Feb, 10 2007 @ 08:43 PM
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Ha, I don't think they expected to have a bunch of ats members viewing that site
they are getting hammered. I bet the start of this thread has put the hurt on them bandwidth wise. It took it a good while to load for a short flash movie.




posted on Feb, 10 2007 @ 08:44 PM
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The exchanges between such diverse and knowledgable scholars is what make ATS so great! gotta love it!!


and in this corner.....



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 10:31 PM
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Orangetom1999


With all due respect, all you really did was repeat what you said before.

If you'll consider what I posted in the context of the suggested Lilith/Nahemah-info(titled: The Abyss) in the ATS post found here, then perhaps we can have an actual conversation instead of simply talking at each other.



For now, I'll state that the goal of Religion is to Re-Unite with Christ(who is Omniscience), and for this we must dispel i-gno-rance.


Also, do you seriously deny that the Temple of Solomon had a Holy of Holies that was not accessible to the profane?


Anyway, if we i-gno-re or suppress sexuality, we don't learn anything.



My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge(or i-gno-rance whis is lack of Gno-sis): because thou hast rejected knowledge(Daath/Gnosis), I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no Priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God(Thou Shalt Not Fornicate), I will also forget thy children. - Hosea 4:6





Fornication is inevitable when we ignore the issue of Sexual Transmutation.





What is transmutation?


Transmutation is a transformation of energies, and specifically this refers to the transformation of the sexual energy. The base sexual energy exists within the hormonal secretions of the endocrine system, as well within sperm and semen. In esotericism, semen refers to the sexual secretions of both man and woman, and is also referred to as the Ens Seminis. This Ens Seminis can be transformed into an extremely vivifying energy that is literally the cornerstone of the great work of self-realization. All the effects of sexual transmutation culminate into a type of spiritual stimulation that can produce true, fundamental, psychological change.

Samael Aun Weor often speaks of psychological revolutions. A revolution only occurs by destroying the decaying norms of the past while simultaneously forming a new creation. In Hinduism, the divine couple of Shiva-Shakti is the creator-destroyer, and they are often posed in tantric union. Likewise, only the sexual energy can create and destroy, and this is related not just with the physical, but as well with the psychological.

In its essence, the key of self change lies within the transmutation of creative energy, because only it can create a spiritual nature within. Unfortunately, many devout aspirants are unaware of this tremendous reality, and thus it is inevitable that those who do not practice some form sexual transmutation will find themselves stagnant and unable to overcome their own personal vices and defects. Testaments to this fact are all the lamentable stories related to celibates in schools of Buddhism, Hinduism, Christianity, etc., etc., that do not know how to control their own sexual energy (the Holy Spirit)...

...and thus they either suffer endlessly from wet dreams or take up the vice of masturbation. These problems can only be resolved through the science of sexual transmutation.

Any devoutly spiritual act is fueled through transmutation, thus meditation, mantra, prayer, etc., are complements of the transmutation of sexual energy.

Nevertheless, it is necessary for single persons to employ the practice of specific pranayama exercises in order to take advantage of the otherwise latent sexual energy.

Those who are married should perform sexual magic, as this is the definitive method of sexual transmutation.










[edit on 11-2-2007 by Tamahu]



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 10:38 PM
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Also orangetom1999, I agree with you about so called Christian churches capitalizing on sex.

And I also agree that many 'pagan' groups are all about what you called "runaway sex".


But true Gnosis is not responsible for either of these.

And Gnosis is found in the Bible, with the Keys of Kabbalah and Alchemy.


Moses was a Kabbalist and Alchemist.



posted on Feb, 11 2007 @ 11:57 PM
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Originally posted by Tamahu
Orangetom1999



With all due respect, all you really did was repeat what you said before.


You and I are speaking of two different instructions to both the Hebrews and the Believers in the Chistian era.

I will repeat what I stated...no where do you find any instruction to the Hebrews or the Christians in the New Testament to behave or conduct themselves as the nations around them are or were doing. This is still in effect today. Nothing has changed in this instruction. Also for the record ..nothing has changed in the Pagan nations which today constantly surround these Hebrews or the Children of the New Testament.

In some 2,000 plus years...more than 4,000 years if you want to go back to Olde Testament times these people have been surrounded by wildlife in its natural habitat doing what this wildlife has always done. They are not to be a part of this.
What we now have today is men of "letters" telling us how good all this wildlife is for us. Nothing changed in all this time...still a bunch of men of "letters" preaching the same olde sermons to the wildlife.


For now, I'll state that the goal of Religion is to Re-Unite with Christ(who is Omniscience), and for this we must dispel i-gno-rance.


You are speaking of another christ and another religion than the one of which I speak. This is obvious to those who know the patterns of the Religions of the EAST.



Also, do you seriously deny that the Temple of Solomon had a Holy of Holies that was not accessible to the profane?


This one is a real winner to those who know the pattern of the Eastern religions.

In the Temple of Solomon at the one time a year that the High Priest could go into the inner court..the Holy of Holys...only the High Priest could go in sprinkling the blood behind him to cover his footsetps and the sins of Israel. Not all the non profane could go in...only the High Priest. The initiates could not go in.
By the way...here if you read carefully the building of the Temple of Solomon or even the Tabernacle in the Wilderness the entrance was in the East and the Priest traveled to the West to enter the Holy of Holys. They did not tavel to the EAST.
To go to the God of the Bible you travel West..not East...East is to go twoards Hai...not Bethel...Beth- House... El-God..House of God..in the West.
Hai means garbage dump or refuse pit..located in the East. Abraham builded him an altar between Bethel in the West and Hai in the East.
The tradition was to walk between the two... To go to God of the Bible you go West


All the sex religions and those who spend an inordinate time in the sex oriented religions travel to the East..not to the West..

Have you been West??

dont worry...most Christians havent a clue about this pattern..it will go right over their head. You are safe when dealing with these types..they know neither much history or even much bible.

No Christian or Hebrew has any instruction Olde Testament or New Testament to glorify themselves by thier sex or sexuality...ever. It is that simple..all glorification is to be to their God.

This God is not the god of the Sex Principles...balance....equalibrium,nature or any other man made principle.

You are speaking of another religion than the one of David and Solomon..other than the Law of Moses....another god. Most people would not understand this...or the concept of demigods.

I make no statement that people are not to have sexuality..I merely declare that there are two systems in operation here. One system where men are told not to do as the defiled nations surrounding them did. The other system declaring how glorious the sex principle is across the board.
These two systems have been in opposition from the begining and unto today.

People are so much more than mere sexuality...yet we are bombarded by sexuality constantly in every medium of communication to sell junk to us and our children. It is perversion and seduction of an entire people.
Especially our children who today know so much more about sex and sexuaity and the products to give us more sexuality....but cannot earn a decent living for themselves and their children. Something is very backwards in our social and economic structure here.


Fornication is inevitable when we ignore the issue of Sexual Transmutation.


LOL LOL LOL Tell us on this thread what was going on regularly in cities like Corinth, Ephesus, Rome etc etc. Some of this stuff would make Hugh Hefner, Bob Guiccone, and Larry Flint to be kindergarden stuff. Little wonder much of what passes for history about these ancient civilizations is watered down..both in classes and in releases about archeology discoverys. Not for general public consumption or viewing.

None of the things or patterns of which you speak come from the God of Abraham,Issac, and Jacob. You will however find them originating from the religions of the East where they are quite common.

Every time the Hebrews got into trouble in the Olde Testamet it was because they disobeyed God and began to take on the principles and practices of the Pagan nations surrounding them...includng the sex principles. One of these is the groves and high places where they often sacraficed their temple virgins. IN the hills and groves in the day time and in the valleys at night. These were abominations to thier God. Eventually they were destroyed as a people because of this abomination and the baggage it produced among generations of the Hebrews. These practices are still going on today ..on the hills in the daytime and the valleys at night.

Sad truth is many of the Christians are following this exact same pattern today.

Thanks for your post,
Orangetom



posted on Feb, 12 2007 @ 02:31 AM
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Self glorification of any kind is blasphemy.

We need to glorify Jehovah-Elohim, by keeping His/Her Temple(the physical body which is not ours) Holy, which is Chastity.

Sex between Woman and Man is not dirty.

The orgasm is what profanes the Temple of Jehovah-Elohim.

So the Man and Woman must withdraw from the Sexual act before reaching orgasm, in order to keep the Tabernacle of the Lord Holy.

If we are single, then we can practice Pranayama and other means to stay Chaste, as to not break the Sixth Commandment.




About Hai...


"Hai" means garbage?


What about "Shadai El Hai" who is "Almighty God of living creatures".




Also, you say that Sex(that which brought us into existence) has no importance in the Hebrew Religion, yet you want to give so much importance to a single specific cardinal-direction?

Hmmm...


Also, profaners could go to the Outer-Court of Solomon's Temple, Initiates could go into the Inner-Court, and only High Priest could go into the Holy of Holies.

This all has a symbolic significance that is much more important than the literal ritual.



And also you're dancing around the issue, which is: "Thou Shalt Not Fornicate".


Without Sexual Transmutation, fornication is inevitable.

Just because the average contemporary exoteric church or synagogue doesn't teach Transmutation, does not mean that it was not taught to Ancient Hebrew Initiates.

The Hebrew Religion in it's original-purity teaches the truth, however the Canaanite, Brahman, and Khemetian Religions it is much-derived from, are also true in their original-purity.



I'm sorry, but belief alone is not enough for Salvation.



The Sexual Mysteries are found symbolized in the Hebrew Scriptures.

If we don't gain control(Chastity) of the Sexual Energy(the Energy of Creation itself), we cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.




Examples:





"He that is wounded in the stones, or that his privy member cut off, shall not enter unto the congregation of the Lord."

– Deuteronomy 23:1






Types of Sexuality


There are three fundamental classes of sexuality:

1. Suprasexuality: Characterized by the transmutation of sexual energy, the pinnacle of which is the type of functioning that prophets such as Buddha, Jesus, Krishna, Mohammad, etc. possess. Their bodies, minds, and spirits are the outcome of incessant and innumerable sexual transmutations. They perfectly transform each moment of existence, thus they perfectly perceive the true nature of all cosmic phenomena.

2. Normal sexuality: The functioning related with the procreation of the species where no psycho-sexual conflict exists.

3. Infrasexuality: The functioning of any and all forms of fornication or sexual misconduct. Including: masturbation, adultery, and homosexuality. This area is again divided by the Kabbalah into the spheres of Lilith and Nehamah.






"People are filled with horror when they hear about sexual Magic; however, they are not filled with horror when they give themselves to all kinds of sexual perversion and to all kinds of carnal passion." - The Perfect Matrimony





Kabbalah: Ain Soph


...But, if we do not build the Chariot, the Mercabah, the Ain Soph remains without Intimate Self-realization.

Those who have not eliminated the Abhayan Samskara, the innate fear, will flee from the Ninth Sphere by telling unto others that the work in the Forge of the Cyclops (sex) is worthless.

These are hypocritical Pharisees who drain the mosquito and swallow up the camel. These are the failed ones who do not enter in to the Kingdom, thereby not allowing others to enter. Truly, sex is a stumbling rock and a rock of offense.








Regards



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 03:13 PM
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Agree...self glorification is blashpemy...we are to be ever modest...and humble.



Sex between Woman and Man is not dirty.


I did not say sex between a man and a woman is dirty. I said the practices of the nations surrounding Israel of the Olde Testament is Abomination. It is what the Hebrews were told not to get involved in...not to do.


"Hai" means garbage?


Hai in this usage means garbade dump or refuse pit.

The phrase or term first comes from Genisis where Abraham builded himself an altar between Bethel in the West and Hai in the East. Bethel meaning House of God. Why would God go to so much trouble to make a point that Bethel ..the house of God was in the West. Because to go away from God you go to the East. THe Tabernacle in the Wilderness and Solomons temple were laid out on the same pattern as was the Garden Of Eden. Entrance was in the East and the Holy of Holys to the West of the entrance. The high priest goes West on the one day of the year sprinkling the blood on his footsteps to cover the sins of Israel. He comes in from the East and goes to the West to the Holy of Holys. To go to God you to West...to go to the garbage dump or refuse pit you go East.

Amazing once you know this to find out how many churchs move the buildings around in the parking lots to get the sun to shine through the stained glass windows down on the altars and put the entrances in the West so that the congregations and the altars are in the Face the East.
Stained Glass is not Christian either..no such instruction to do so.

Have you been West??


What about "Shadai El Hai" who is "Almighty God of living creatures".


Care must be taken here as the New Testament Believer knows that a creature is born again..in the newness of life...not by men or mens traditions ...nor does it mean every creature which comes down the pipe...but believers. Not after the traditions of men..but after God.


Also, you say that Sex(that which brought us into existence) has no importance in the Hebrew Religion, yet you want to give so much importance to a single specific cardinal-direction?


Once again ..I did not say sex had no importance in the Hebrew religion. I said that the traditions of men have perverted the natural use of the man and woman and used it to gain power just as it is perverted today to leave the natural use and make us better customers and consumers without even thinking about how we are being used/seduced.
I also said that the Hebrews were seduced into and many times went in willingly into the religions of the heathen nations surrounding them. They even tried to superimpose these heathen traditions over the top of the Law of Moses..including the sexual traditions as if they were part of the Law of Moses..ie ..the groves and high places in the daytime and the valleys at night. The playboy clubs of the day where they practiced sacraficing their virgins. Worshiping the creature rather than the Creator.
This is still done today ..just not in a manner most would recognize.

Today we cover this up with high sounding words like "Humanism" and all the baggage accompanying this



Also, profaners could go to the Outer-Court of Solomon's Temple, Initiates could go into the Inner-Court, and only High Priest could go into the Holy of Holies.

This all has a symbolic significance that is much more important than the literal ritual.


The significance of all this is that what is in the Olde Testament is a shadow and type of what was to come later. All this is done away today and something more profound has replaced it .

There is no more temple as in Solomons temple.
There is no more priesthhood.
There is no more land as in the physical land of Israel
There is no more sacrafice..our sacrafice was made once..no more.
THe people are not a physical people as in the Olde Testament ..they are found everywhere ..of every kindred and tounge. They are still a minority today surrounded by wildlife trying despirately to seduce them into the ways of the world. To make merchandize of thier very souls as was done by the nations surrounding Israel of the Olde Testament. This world still hates and despises them.

This is not what you get from most preachers today but it is true.




And also you're dancing around the issue, which is: "Thou Shalt Not Fornicate".


The issue is that you shall not commit the abominations that the nations surroundind Israel do. You are to be a seperate people not like the nations surrounding us do. Including the perverting of the sexual practices by the "traditions of men" rules for getting around the rules. Commentarys, Talmudic practices.

By the way .. neither the Talmud nor the Kaballah are found in the Olde Testament.
So where do they originate..not with God. They must be from another god...another tradition.

If this was taught by the ancient Hebrews I know where it came from..not from God. Also to my knowlege You do not see the term "Initiates" used in the Olde Testament or New Testament. YOu do see it in Paganism and occult rituals/religions.


The Hebrew Religion in it's original-purity teaches the truth, however the Canaanite, Brahman, and Khemetian Religions it is much-derived from, are also true in their original-purity.


To my knowlege this is not so..this must be another "original purity" another god..another tradition and practice. The practice of the Hebrews and the God of the Fathers is not to mix leven with unleven...new wine with olde. Purity..not mixing traditions. I dont know where you get this stuff from Tamahu...but it is precisely that ..mixing leven with unleven..new wine with olde. You are telling on yourself and the name of your god. You have another purity ..another tradition another god than the God of the Fathers. This is obvious to anyone who knows Olde Testament or even New Testament and what the Apostles and Jesus the Christ for remission of sins taught.

Have you been to the West??


I'm sorry, but belief alone is not enough for salvation.


Correct here ..quite correct. Salvation is by the Blood of the Savior alone. When I stand before God ..He had better see the Blood of Jesus covering me ..nothing else...for my works are totally worthless.
I Believe...I am living because God did the work in my worthless garbage self to change me to His Way..not mine.




The Sexual Mysteries are found symbolized in the Hebrew Scriptures.

If we don't gain control(Chastity) of the Sexual Energy(the Energy of Creation itself), we cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.


Now is made known the mystery!!
LOL LOL LOL..there are no sexual mysteries. This is works...salvation by works..ie..Paganism. The very thing we were told not to do which the nations surrounding the Ancient Nation of Israel were already doing carte blanche.
You are saying here that God cannot save to the uttermost. That god is powerless in salvation ..that we must do something to get saved.

I say and know that Salvation is by the Blood alone...not any blood but by His redeeming/purchasing Blood. Not of anything that I do or will do.

You should know that Philip in the New Testament baptized a Ethiopian Eunich into the Faith. Your Olde Testament statement about having the stones cut out is not valid.

This is a very significant change from the Olde Testament to the New Testament..this is also what is meant by "It is a finished work"

"It is Finished"

All your statements are to the effect that it is not finished..we have something to do in getting it finished.

Have you been to the West??

Thanks,
Orangetom

[edit on 13-2-2007 by orangetom1999]



posted on Feb, 13 2007 @ 07:28 PM
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Well, orangetom1999...

As much as I'd like to continue this discussion, I don't see it really going anywhere.


So, just as Works without Faith are dead; so also, Faith without Works is dead.

The two are inseperable.

If you don't believe me, then read the Christian Gospels themselves.


To Be Born Again, is far from simply being a matter of blind-belief.





With commentary:





Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto you (the mystery of my wife Mary Magdalene is "MM" and any "Master Mason" knows that!

Is not perhaps Christ "Shin", the Son of Nun, which is the final outcome of the blood? and), except a man be born of water (MeM, Mary Magdalene, who develops the Son of Nun in her Belly) and of the (Holy) Spirit (Ruach Elohim, Aleph), he cannot enter into the kingdom of God….

The wind (Aleph as oxygen) blows (the fire in the blood) where it listens (the "IAO" and transmutes the water into wine), and (when the fire is awakened) you hear the sound thereof (within your "Vav", Spinal Medulla), but cannot tell whence it comes, and whither it goes (because it rises according to Nous, the fires of the heart): so is every one that is born of the Spirit (Aleph that hovers upon the Waters - MeM, Mother Mary).







The Second Birth:




Second Birth


"In Gnosticism and Esotericism, one understands as Second Birth the fabrication of the Solar Bodies and the Incarnation of the Being." - The Esoteric Treatise of Hermetic Astrology

"To incarnate the Divine Immortal Triad (Atman-Buddhi-Manas) signifies the Second Birth, which means to come out of the Ninth Sphere. The child who is born comes out from the womb. Whosoever is born within the Superior Worlds comes out of the Ninth Sphere (Sex). Whosoever reaches the Second Birth is admitted into the temple of the Twice Born. Whosoever reaches the Second Birth has to renounce sex for all eternity. The Sexual Act is absolutely forbidden for the Twice Born. Whosoever violates this law will lose his Solar Bodies and will fall into the Valley of Bitterness." - The Doomed Aryan Race

In order to incarnate the Monad (the Triad) one must first create the Solar Bodies, which is only possible through White Tantrism.







And no, I cannot say that I've been to the West.

Only those who are Purified enough, are by the Father allowed to enter the Western Paradise or Pure Land:





Amitabha (Sanskrit) [from a not + the verbal root ma to measure + abha splendor, light from a-bha to shine, irradiate]

Unmeasured splendor; mystically, as boundless light or boundless space, one of the five dhyani-buddhas of Tibetan Buddhism, more often referred to as the five tathagathas or jinas (victorious ones). Originally these dhyani-buddhas represented cosmic spiritual attributes and influences emanating from Adi-Buddhi, but they have become mythologized as gods, ruling over the central realm as well as the four cardinal directions.

Amitabha of the West, whose Tibetan name is Wod-pag-med (O-pa me) is the ruling deity of Sukhavati (the western paradise or pure land) and in China and Japan is universally worshiped as Amida-buddha.

Esoterically, there are seven dhyani-buddhas (five only have manifested thus far) who represent "both cosmic entities and the rays or reflections of these cosmic originals which manifest in man as monads" (FSO 507; cf SD 1:108).

The Panchen Lama has been traditionally regarded as the tulku of Amitabha, and the Dalai Lama as the tulku of Avalokitesvara (Tibetan Chenrezi).

Amitabha corresponds to the First Logos, the Father in the Christian Trinity, the Pythagorean Monad of Monads, and in the human being to Atman.

From a philosophical-mystic standpoint, Amitabha also means "no color" or the "white glory," the primal spiritual element-principle of the solar system, from which are born the seven differentiated "colors" of the manifested prismatic kosmic hierarchies.











"Be ye therefore Perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is Perfect." - Matthew 5:48









Regards



posted on Feb, 14 2007 @ 01:20 AM
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Hm. In honesty, I interpreted this with a light hearted tone. I do not think they are advocating "devil's passions", more of a sexual freedom intention (which is present in many positive religions). Nothing evil here...

My opinion so far


[edit on 14/2/07 by SteveR]



posted on Feb, 14 2007 @ 05:59 AM
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I dont travel to the EAST..up seven steps.

I know what it means..from the Garden of Eden to the present. This dogma and ritual has been with us from the begining ...from the pre flood world. It comes or travels in alot of variations but when one peels back the surface layer it has its roots in a commonality.

There is historically only one system which did not follow this pattern of the Religions of the East. That is the God of our Fathers. Both in the Olde Testament and also the New Testament. Both are very much against the system of which you speak.

Most Christians have no clue about what we are speaking. Most Christians know very little even about Christianity nor history.

As I have amply stated most Christians have no idea how much paganism and ritual have over the years infiltrated the Christian Churchs as it infiltrated the Hebrew Religion and practice. Nothing new here.

I also know that as part of this religion ...sex is used to sell us much merchandize....to give us the illusion that we are more than we actually are. Many of us here in this country will sell our souls for another chance at this merchandize. This system works even better if we can sell the souls of others for more merchandize and the appearence of being what we are not.

I am not given to quoting Bible verses so I will just direct you to one which is quite telling. IN the 18th Chapter of Revelation there is a list of merchandize...goods sold on the markets of the day. The most important goods in that list is the very last one...the souls of men. Very telling to those who can think past the list of merchandize.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Feb, 14 2007 @ 07:00 AM
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Originally posted by DJMessiah
Christian rock in reality should not be categorized as "Christian." Rock has stood for rebellion, and sometimes sex and drugs, and incorporating that into a religion mostly defies its teachings. Christianity is supposed to preach humbleness and love, not greed and profit. When Jesus (pbuh) overturned the table at the temple, because one of the priests was making money off of the people's faith, he did it because he did not advocate the commercializing of faith to produce profit.


wow that topic is still alive with some Christians?
I thought it died out in the 90's.

I remember going to a Bible college, that instead of teaching the Bible they argued why my Newsboys, etc. were Satanic (taking up class time) and was told by the dean that Keith green was like a "spiritual hamburger" compared to hymns.

Then there is the whole point of hymns and how they were old bar tunes...the story still goes on?


It is, as it is, I suppose.

As for love, yeah...love is the creation of space around someone else and yourself...so you have the freedom with your thoughts you shared (which of course is fine, I was just surprised, didnt know that was still a 'church' issue), and that is love.

allowing people to be where they are at...love is always there, its just recognizing it, as its the only true thing. (not emotions, etc.)

As for sex in religion, not sure that video was selling sex per-say...and there are comments I would have in regards to what they said about "sex making you feel guilty"...thats only for those that have been taught that sexuality is basically a crime.

But these are topics that you cant really cover in just one posting...
Should the church be doing this? Well they are doing a lot of things, so not sure why this would be that surprising.


Peace

dAlen



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