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Toddler Booted From Plane

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posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 10:38 PM
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Three year olds are unpredictable. The parents should have known better. The airline was personnel did exactly what they should have.




posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 10:39 PM
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Found the answer to my own questions


The Kuleszas planned to fly home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers after a four-day visit with the girl's paternal grandparents.


www.breitbart.com...

This explains alot to me. First the girl hitting the parents was totally uncalled for. There is definitly a disclipline problem.

Now I know why the girl didn't want to take the flight. I can totally relate. She didn't want to leave grandma's. I have three girls all close in age. Each one of them threw a tantrum when they left grandmas around that age. Fortunatly we could drive to grandma's. Unfortunatly we had to drive home with whiny complaining kids.

What stopped that were threats of not going back to grandmas if they kept it up, and acted like that again when they left. One time I did cancle a trip to grandma's. Next time I didn't have much problems. All they did was try to hide their shoes, and not wanting to put them on. They grew out of that phase.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 12:16 AM
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I say bravo to the airline for putting the well being of the majority ahead of two poorly trained parents and a screaming brat. I once took a flight from Dulles D.C. to LAX, which is a 9 hour ordeal, and I had the pleasure of being seated against the window, and next to me was a young couple and their toddler. The mother sat in the middle, next to me, and chose to hold the kid for the entire flight. Not only did he cry and blubber and blow snot the whole way to L.A. but he would slide over into my lap while I was trying to read, every time I would manage to nod off he would kick me, he would scream and flop around every ten seconds. The mother couldnt hold him because, as someone before said, he too was like a rhesus monkey on crack and would not sit still. Listening to the incessant chatter of the kid as well as its mother continuously trying to reason and bargain with the child made matters even more unbearable. And what made me madder than anything was the dad was in the aisle seat sleeping like a log!!

Somewhere over Nevada I invited the child to accompany me into the lavatory to play with the pretty blue water



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 06:15 AM
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I've heard the excuse given that the kid had some kind of inner ear problem and had an extremely uncomfortable flight on the way down to see grandma and grandpa, and that maybe she remembered the pain, thus was unruly. Possible, I guess, but the parents should have prepared for that.

As for not getting enough time to control the kid, they were given 15 minutes, which is 14 minutes too many imo.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 11:06 AM
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It's all well and good pointing out the fact that unruly kids and crap parents are a pain in the ass for evryone but i think.

Spacedoubt - "I personally believe a swat to the behind was in order.

Landis - The kid went as far as hitting her mother several times, in addition to not following her parent's directives. No one pays hundreds for a flight to watch and listen to that kind of crap. I'm sick and tired of children dictating how adults will live.

These parents couldnt' get their little bastard to sit down so the plane could take off, and because of it they were thrown off the plane. Too bad for them. These parents even actually said that they 'didn't get to comfort and explain to the child' to sit down.

Nydgan - Smack the little brat across the face, put him in the seat, and lock the seat belt so the plane can take off. Yeesh. A take off isn't time for a 'time out' or a heart to heart discussion with a screaming baby.

Do you people have children. Resisticana does and should know better a three year olds mind is not something you batter into submission its not the kids fault. Oh Nydgan don't like kids eh. I know some people who would break your bones for even thinking like that i mean "smacking a three year old across the face" have a word with yourself man. Do us all a favour don't have any children we'v got enough emotional cripples without you lot creating anymore.

.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 12:01 PM
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I agree with what the airlines did. The parents had 15 minutes to quite their child and nothing that they did helped quite their precious little angle.

The parents wanted the child to sit in the seat with one of them during the takeoff which isn't allowed.

I think what the airline did was right. I am a parent and I've had a child misbehave... I know what it's like but the other people on the plane have rights also.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 12:22 PM
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I don't consent to hitting kids but teenagers...thats a different story. old enough to drive, old enough to get a smack in the face for being an idiot. I say hit em all you want once thier brains are developed suffuciently to not do nerve damage from the blows. Some kids need good old pavlovian conditioning to grow up right.

Maybe a medical test you can do on your kid at the doctors. He fails the test, than the kid is in need of more drastic pavlovian conditioning were spanking is involved and maybe a smack here and there, and a beating liscence is issued for the parents to discapline the kid.

This liscanece must be handed out for severe cases only though. It must be controled so t hat doctors don't make money handing out these perscriptions. Just a thought. Might do some good.

I'm kidding, there shouldn't be any liscence parents should already be able to impliment this.

Just kidding again. Hitting anybody especially somebody who cant fight back severly hampers and damages their psychological development and well being at any age.
Psychologists have a saying that "the price of admission in life is your parents"
Meaning that by and large what you grow up to be and feel and act is a large result of how your parents treated you while growing up. Who your parents are become who you are if you don't try and change that your self once an adult.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 12:23 PM
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Man my spelling sucks...sorry guys.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 12:41 PM
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Seems 100% discipline issues. While I can understand how children can be, over one hundred people being delayed because of an unruly child is unacceptable. While I don't condone abusing children, if this child was "spanked" for misbehaving in the past, there would be no doubt this situation would have never happened. The parents having to reassure the flight attendants they were attempting to calm the child is too much; their actions should have been speaking for them. The steps taken by the airline may have been the only way for the child to realize that type of behavior is not allowed in public places, since the parents weren't doing enough. They were given more than ample time to correct the situation.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 12:45 PM
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Hi All,

While I feel for the parents, because of the humiliation and anger that they felt, I think that the airline did the right thing (they were already 15min behind and could not take off until everyone was seated). I do think that they should have offered the family a later flight that day, explaining to them that they can’t afford to delay the flight due to an unruly child.

I have two children, as well as some that I have sort of adopted as my own, and I can attest to the fact that there is no reasoning with a 2-3 year old. At that age, they test the boundaries and limitations of their world, and they will fight and fuss to get what they want.

At this stage parents have to not only become creative, but they also have to set firm examples of what behavior will and will not be tolerated. Sometimes that includes a spank on the hand or legs. I have only had to actually spank my children 8 times total their entire lives. These came after several warnings, and when all else failed. (They are 12 & 14 now-- teenagers!! say some prayers for me!!
)

Of course now days, spanking a child in public could have some severe consequences, so many parents are afraid. Yet, ironically most children act up when in public, maybe because they know they can without suffering any consequences.

In this case I don’t think that spanking would have done anything except make the child become more hysterical. Honestly, I don’t know what would have helped to calm her down if she was afraid, aside from giving her some cold medicine or Benadryl so she could sleep. (not that I am advocating drugs as a means of discipline!!
)

The stewardess who ejected them from the plane decided to eject them after she saw the child hitting her mother and trying to climb underneath a seat. (After a few requests to the parents that they clam the child.) The parents were even chastised by a supervisor later.



---In the terminal they were directed to an Air Tran supervisor, who told the couple that the stewardess was uncomfortable “because you have an unruly child who struck a woman on board.”

Mr. Kulesza was incredulous. “That was her mother,” he explained. “She hit her on the arm. Lady, this is a 3-year-old child we’re talking about.”

“Sir, we don’t differentiate between 3 and 33,” the Air Tran supervisor replied. Mr. Kulesza said the woman proceeded to lecture him about child discipline, and how she would never tolerate her children behaving in such a manner, at which point Mr. Kulesza said, “You really need to stop talking now.”


LINK

I do feel bad for the parents, but I think that the stewardesses were anticipating that the child would be a problem the entire flight, especially after seeing that the parent’s efforts to calm the child were not working after 15 min. of trying. I don’t think the airlines should have banned them from flying for the next 24 hours though. They should have offered them a later flight. (which would have given the parents the time they need to come up with a few strategies on how to keep her clam.

(I read that the when they did finally fly home, the little girl was asleep the whole time.... hmmmm, I wonder if they gave her some medicine?
)


(edit to fix some spelling.
)

[edit on 1/26/2007 by sylvrshadow]



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 12:50 PM
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I’ve had enough!


Have you people lost all perspective?

I'm stunned by the sweeping assessments, and blind assumptions, made about this 3 year old child and her parents- based on, at best, nothing more than a single snap-shot in time.

I have a child nearing that age, and 95% of the time, he is VERY well behaved.

But I suppose my "failings” with regard to the remaining 5% renders me incompetent as a parent and my child an undisciplined monster!

:shk:

I have not seen much denial of ignorance in this thread.

How unfortunate....and in my book, how revealing...



[edit on 26-1-2007 by loam]



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 12:54 PM
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I'm not surprised at the overwhelming support that the airline is receiving. People are fed up with this nonsense. It's gone too far.

Parents are responsible for their children, end of story. If the children are causing a problem in public, the parent is at fault.

I'm not advocating child abuse, I'm advocating discipline. If the kids don't respect their parents, it's highly likely they don't respect other adults, or their peers. That's a recipe for disaster.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 01:07 PM
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Hi Loam,

I understand why you are concerned and upset. I am in no way assuming that the parents are "bad" because thier efforts at calming thier daughter down were not working. Yet, because the flight was already delayed 15min, and I assume, the child was the only reason the plane had yet to taxi to the runway, I do not think the airlines were wrong to make the family leave.

I do think they should have offered them another flight though, and a bit more understanding. (customer service you know!
) If you dont mind, I am curious as to how you think the situation should have been resolved, or what you would have done if you were the stewardess.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 01:24 PM
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After watching the video with the parents interview I walked away with the impression they wanted to stick it to the airline anyway they could, therefore I say good for the airline.

I know darned well I would not have wanted to be on an airline where the parents could not control their kids. One good swat on the rear end probably would have done the job and too think out in Clifornia some bimbo wants to outlaw spanking kids :shk:



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by sylvrshadow
Hi Loam,

I understand why you are concerned and upset. I am in no way assuming that the parents are "bad" because thier efforts at calming thier daughter down were not working.


Your view, then, is clearly the minority.


Originally posted by sylvrshadow
…I assume…


That’s the problem. It appears that most have gleefully accepted AirTran’s version of the facts…or indeed, how those facts have been reported. As you later point out, AirTran not only ejected the family from the flight in question, but then prohibited the family from taking another flight for 24 hours on the basis that the child represented a threat to other passengers.




“because you have an unruly child who struck a woman on board.”

Mr. Kulesza was incredulous. “That was her mother,” he explained. “She hit her on the arm. Lady, this is a 3-year-old child we’re talking about.”

“Sir, we don’t differentiate between 3 and 33,” the AirTran supervisor replied.


What ridiculous nonsense! If I question the airline’s application of the “policy” that prohibited the family from taking the next flight out, why should I not also question their judgment regarding the initial situation?



… I'm advocating discipline…


I’d like someone to show me where science backs the concept that a 3 year old’s brain development renders him/her perfectly capable, physiologically, of complying 100% of the time to any form of parental discipline.




posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 03:02 PM
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Originally posted by TheDuckster
I saw the report on T.V. last nite.

They interviewed the mother who gave her side of the story; then afterwards reporters talked on the phone with a representative from the airline.

The representative mentioned that they would re-imburse the family for any misgivings plus give the family (freebie tickets?). Also the airline stuck to their guns in claiming that they(airlines) were 'in the right'.

The distraught mother declined the offer for the free tickets and said that she wouldn't ever EVER take a plane ride with that particular airline again.


I have a feeling that the airline is quite fine with losing that particular customers business. My little 5 year old has been on 6 flights and none less than 4 hours. He never tried to get out of his seat and roam the plane because he knew that wasn't acceptable. Lucky for us the altitude issues never seemed to bother him and has never cried on a flight. As far as hitting me or mom ... I don't think he's brave enough to do that under any circumstance. It's sad when you see kids bullying their parents because the parents have handed all the power over to them.

I have been on many planes with crying children ... normally it's cause of the ear drums popping from altitude change ... it's to be expected. Or sometime they'll cry on takeoff / landing which with all the noise and physics involved can be a little disconcerting to a little person. But this case was a full out tantrum, child gone wild and the airline had to be worried what this little terror would pull once they were under way.

There is nothing wrong with making mom and dad responsible for the behavior of their little one. If she doesn't have the behavior or temperment ability to fly then she shouldn't be in a plane ... it's not the rest of the planes fault she has these issues.

I'll just count my blessing that my little guys just claps during takeoff and absolutely loves flying.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 03:10 PM
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Hi Loam,




I’d like someone to show me where science backs the concept that a 3 year old’s brain development renders him/her perfectly capable, physiologically, of complying 100% of the time to any form of parental discipline.


This is a true statement not only for 3 year olds but also for any child up to the age of 18. I believe that as a parent you have to pick and choose your battles, otherwise you will drive yourself and your child crazy, and you will experience few happy days. Raising children for me has been an awesome, a joyful, and a learning exprience. I find that I am learning something everyday from my children.

That is not to say that everyday is a happy day, and they certainly have their moments. I have always said that the most difficult job a person can have is being a good parent. "Good" is relative though, as what is good for some wont be for others. All one can do is do the best they can, and be willing to listen and learn.

I am still curious though, as to what you think should have happened?



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 03:14 PM
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There was another component to this event. The child was too big to sit in the parents lap (safety) and would not remain in her own seat. She kept leaving her seat and throwing wild tantrums. 15 minutes of this is enough.

I must wonder what kind of people would not voluntarily get off the plane with their child in this sutuation? I guess the same kind who would not take the free business class vouchers, but will go on the tube for their 15 minutes.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by sylvrshadow
I am still curious though, as to what you think should have happened?


For this situation, it would be impossible to answer. I wasn't there and don't know the facts.

But I'd be glad to answer the question under the following assumptions:

If the family was in fact the cause of the entire 15 min delay (that isn't specifically clear in the many versions of the story I have read), and after being provided adequate notice that they would be asked to leave should their efforts be unsuccessful within a specified and reasonable timeframe under the circumstances, then I would say boot them.

I travel VERY frequently, and I’m willing to bet more than most!

Delays are caused for all kinds of non-mechanical nonsense. I have seen the most outrageous examples…and the most reasonable… But make no mistake that the decision of what to do in such situations rests largely with the discretion of the airlines.

I have several perspectives…

In a business sense, AirTran is entitled to exercise its legal discretion in any manner it deems appropriate. But as a consumer, I evaluate the situation differently. I care about how I might be treated by a business.

What I find most disturbing, however, is not this story, but the intense public hostility shown this specific family. If a single example of disruption by a child is enough to convert the parents into “incompetents” and a three year old girl into an “undisciplined monster”, we are much further gone in this country than I ever imagined.

:shk:

[edit on 26-1-2007 by loam]



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 06:41 PM
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Originally posted by carslake

Do you people have children. Resisticana does and should know better a three year olds mind is not something you batter into submission its not the kids fault.



What ?? I should know better ? What should I know better ?

Show me where I stated that the child should have been abused ? I speak for me not others.

You did not understand what I posted...read again.

I advocate for good parenting skills and trying to reason rather than use physical violence. A 3 year old is capable of understanding bad behaviour is unacceptable...especially if you set ground rules when they are very young.


[edit on 26-1-2007 by resistancia]



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