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Study Reveals Extreme Climate Change Happened 14,000-36,000 Years Ago.

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posted on Jan, 24 2007 @ 03:15 PM
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A new study led by author Xiahong Feng of Dartmouth College presents evidence that 14,000-36,000 years ago changes in wind direction were a result of global climate change, back in a time when there were no factories and people were not driving their SUV's. The changes were so dramatic that wind patterns changed 180 degrees, and precipitation patterns were changed around the world.
 



www.livescience.com
“In this study, we found evidence that during the last glacial period, about 14,000 to 36,000 years ago, the prevailing wind in this zone was easterly, and marine moisture came predominantly from the East Coast,” said lead study author Xiahong Feng of Dartmouth College.”

The findings were detailed today in the online edition of the journal Geology.

Changing climate

These changes in wind direction were the result of global climate change, which can alter circulation patterns in the atmosphere, Feng explained. Changes in wind patterns can in turn cause changes in temperature and precipitation patterns, which are the measurements typically used to study past climates.




Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


Global climate change has happened in the past and the changes were dramatic, it is obvious we are going through another one and it appears that these changes are cyclical. i think it is time to stop trying to blame "society and technology" and start using technology in a concious manner to plan and survive the dramatic changes that are a..

[edit on 24-1-2007 by Muaddib]

[edit on 24-1-2007 by UM_Gazz]




posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 07:18 AM
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Well DUH!!! Of course it did we were coming out of the last ice age.

You are so predictable it is not funny. It doesn't change the FACTS though.

No one has ever said that the climate does not change... our planetary history of ice ages, thaws and droughts show that. Flux's in the radiant output of the sun and interstellar dust also effect climate... All that is moot to the central question... Does man's activity, including pollutants effect the environment, and if so, to what degree?

The simple reality is of course we effect the environment. The Sahara is as much a creation of overgrazing as it is a drop in the water table, possibly more. The same is true of much of the Middle East. The dust plains of northern China has the same root cause. The destruction of the rain forests effect the environment locally by creating arid regions where previously it was a wet one, but also globally the loss of the rain forests effects the planet's ability to breath as it were. Cities create their own environment as anyone who has ever spent a hot, sultry summer in Manhattan can tell you. The ever growing ozone holes have been traced to the flurocarbons we dump into the air. Then there is acid rain caused specifically by coal fired furnaces... (yes I know volcano's cause acid rain too) Need I go on?

So... logically it should follow that the massive amounts of carbon dioxide and other pollutants would also effect the planet's overall health as well. The question is to what degree. For the record, when scientists talk about global warming, it is totally different than when the media talks about global warming. When the media talks about it, it is as matter of grand and spectacular effects...the day after tomorrow stuff... after all that is what sells news and movies. When scientists talk about global warming it is a matter of degrees, one, two, maybe three degrees change in atmospheric temperature and the subsequent effect that has. For example: The atmospheric temperature of the Arctic rises two, three degrees. Ice begins to melt just a little bit faster, with the air a little bit warmer the foliage line can advance a few miles further northward creating a different environment; with less ice to reflect light back out into space, the air warms a little more, ice melts further, plant life moves further north, the environment changes a little bit more and the seas slowly rise. Or let's take Katrina. Did global warming cause Katrina? No. Atmospheric thermal processes made the hurricane... BUT... the gulf was two or three degrees warmer than what has been considered normal and when the storm hit those warmer waters, the same atmospheric thermal process that made it to begin with had extra fuel as it were to work with and the storm became a killer as a result.

It is a subtle process which is probably why you don't understand it.

All this is really moot though... conservation is still prudent and should always be so both for environmental and economic reasons. Why you on the hard right oppose such ideas so boggles the mind.

[edit on 25-1-2007 by grover]



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 07:24 AM
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All those damn 30,000 year old SUV's.



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 07:40 AM
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although it is interesting, it still does not prove anything either way.

you would think that something like the dod in america, would have studied this, or the navy and air force. obviosly they will not tell us what is going on, but you can guarentee that money is the most important factor, and they will just keep using those oil reserves etc... making them loads of money.

until man can control the sun, there really is not much point in saying this does this and that, we cannot really stop what is going on at the mo, so just sit back and wait and see.



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 07:52 AM
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They did Andy... google the 2003/04 Pentagon Climate Change Report. It was complied by far smarter men than either Muaddib or myself and is a very sobering read.



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 08:14 AM
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Xiahong Feng's study simply shows that prevailing weather patters at the Last Glacial Maximum were different to today - as indeed we'd expect with a huge great ice sheet covering half of North America.

It has no bearing whatsoever on any current climate change


As for the report commissioned by the Pentagon - maybe you should read what one of the authors of the report has to say about it?



This is very much in the spirit of thinking the unthinkable. The report that we put together for the Pentagon is an extreme scenario, in the sense that most climatologists would say that this is low probability, in the sense of it happening soon, and as pervasively. But it is the Pentagon's job to think about many cases, the worst-case scenario. What are the extreme continue conditions that could put pressures on US national security?


news.bbc.co.uk...

The whole thing was totally misrepresented by the British media and then around the world. It almost like saying the next harry potter book is an accurate prediction of what J K Rowling thinks will happen in reality ....



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by Essan
Xiahong Feng's study simply shows that prevailing weather patters at the Last Glacial Maximum were different to today - as indeed we'd expect with a huge great ice sheet covering half of North America.

It has no bearing whatsoever on any current climate change


As for the report commissioned by the Pentagon - maybe you should read what one of the authors of the report has to say about it?



This is very much in the spirit of thinking the unthinkable. The report that we put together for the Pentagon is an extreme scenario, in the sense that most climatologists would say that this is low probability, in the sense of it happening soon, and as pervasively. But it is the Pentagon's job to think about many cases, the worst-case scenario. What are the extreme continue conditions that could put pressures on US national security?


news.bbc.co.uk...

The whole thing was totally misrepresented by the British media and then around the world. It almost like saying the next harry potter book is an accurate prediction of what J K Rowling thinks will happen in reality ....



I have a copy of it on file and have read it and I know what they say about its scenarios... what I told Andy was that it existed and that he should read it that it was a very sobering read. Which he should if he is interested and which it is.



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 09:53 AM
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Denying risk is utterly stupid and we need to take steps to reduce our vulnerabilities towards extinction. Climate change is a natural occurance and anthropogenic factors are amplifying the magnitude and scope of planetary destruction. Our record depletion of natural sources is far removed from any sort of survival preparation.

So why are we still pouring gas on a burning house, if we plan to save the residents?


[edit on 25-1-2007 by Regenmacher]



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 10:36 AM
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Exactly!!! That has pretty much been my argument for years.

It is at the very least obstructionist to question whether global warming is caused by human activity or not. It obscures the real issue which is: What can we do to ameliorate the situition? Whether we cause or contribute to it or not... conservation is still prudent and should always be so both for environmental and economic reasons.



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 10:49 AM
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there is much knowledge on WHAT is going on.
there is some knowledge on HOW it is happening.
there is little knowledge on WHY it is occuring.

as a side note, how can scientists tell which direction the wind was blowing thousands of years ago when my weather forcaster cant get it right 3 days from now?



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by Stewart Lewis
there is much knowledge on WHAT is going on.
there is some knowledge on HOW it is happening.
there is little knowledge on WHY it is occuring.

as a side note, how can scientists tell which direction the wind was blowing thousands of years ago when my weather forcaster cant get it right 3 days from now?


He used ancient tree data as stated in the above story. We can also use geological data to reveal which way the wind was blowing back then.



History Suggests Major Wind Shift Could Again Bring Drought to Great Plains

A crisscross pattern in the dunes serves as a record of changes in wind direction and shows that 800 to 1,000 years ago, during the Medieval Warm Period, the winds brought drought to that region, according to a new study.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


As for your weatherman that's called a forecast as in predicating the future, the above study is called hindcast as in revealing the past. Big difference and get a new weather man too, he sucks.



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 12:14 PM
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thank you for correcting me, weather man is in the can. but back to my main point, given our perspective of geologic change, can we get the distance needed to accuratly measure the issue, or are we too involved to observe?

however, in order to readily contradict myself, regardless of what WHY may be, we must do what we can at the moment to be proper stewards of this orb.



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by Stewart Lewis
thank you for correcting me, weather man is in the can. but back to my main point, given our perspective of geologic change, can we get the distance needed to accuratly measure the issue, or are we too involved to observe?


Well, he has just published and will now be up to peer review by paleoclimatologists. Then we will see how valid he is. I also think we must know why and how in order to mount a proper offense/defense, same reason why it's not wise to take a slingshot to a gunfight.

The forthcoming IPCC report by 2500 scientists will also have more substance:
U.N. climate report will shock the world Reuters
UN climate panel to blame humans for global warming USA Today



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 12:46 PM
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all organisms have thier niche, the things they excel at. it seems humans have the ability to quickly adapt to new enviroments.
could this help us through?
our habit of living in one place will be the first victim of this change, and those whom can switch to a nomadic livestyle will fair better than those who try to stay geographiclly fixed.



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib


Global climate change has happened in the past and the changes were dramatic, it is obvious we are going through another one and it appears that these changes are cyclical. i think it is time to stop trying to blame "society and technology" and start using technology in a concious manner to plan and survive the dramatic changes that are a..

[edit on 24-1-2007 by Muaddib]

[edit on 24-1-2007 by UM_Gazz]


Yeah right... Let's keep on using SUVs for our survival through this upcoming ice age... whatever. What will it take for neocon zealots to recognize the very simple fact that our civilization has been over, way over-reliant on fossil fuels while clean alternative energy sources have been around for decades???

It's been proven by masses of studies worldwide that global warming is a reality and that it's main source is human activity, especially with the use of greehouse-gas machines likes cars. What about being CONSCIOUS of this fact, and using better technologies that free us from the same old fossil fuel obsession?



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Muaddib
Global climate change has happened in the past and the changes were dramatic,

True.

it is obvious we are going through another one and it appears that these changes are cyclical.


False, the current change can not be linked to any known climate cycle pattern, nor explained by any known driver of climate, other than atmospheric greenhouse gas concentrations.


i think it is time to stop trying to blame "society and technology" and start using technology in a concious manner to plan and survive the dramatic changes that are a..

If science isn't able to tell us why the warming is occuring, as some are saying when they reject global warming theory, then how can we possibly make informed decisions about how to deal with global warming? Either the science is good and able to tell us why its happening, and what its effects are, or its not, and we are helpless.


stewart lewis
as a side note, how can scientists tell which direction the wind was blowing thousands of years ago when my weather forcaster cant get it right 3 days from now?

They use entirely different methodologies that simply aren't appropriate or informative for each other. The tv weatherman and meteorologists are using different methods and techniques to get at different information than the paleo-climatologist.



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 01:23 PM
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echtelion,
from any side of an argument, you can find studies to back up your point.
i hope that is sarcasm in your post and not sincere feeling. regardless of the cause we must act. everyday in our lives we have opportunity to make choices, and though we may not be able to logically foresee the implications of our choices, the freedom to choose remains. our future will be whatever we think, do, and say. remeber that not choosing is still a choice.



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 02:10 PM
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Of course there is evidence of natural rising Co2 in the atmosphere which brought the many cycles... however.

Scientific journals about global warming, you will see that most agree we are adding fuel to the fire. No, it wasn't "30,000 yr old SUV's." It was Mother Nature. She has done this many times and will continue within her own natural cycle.

Polar ice core tests show that carbon dioxide is extremely higher then it was ever before in over a quarter of a million years. These tests can even give us the temperatures on earth at that time. However, today the levels are off the charts! Statistics are that the 10 warmest years in history were in the last 14 yrs. That alone is creepy. South America had its first hurricane and we are setting records with Hurricanes and Typhoons! Our Jet Stream and Gulf Steam is changing.

I have witnessed many storms and watched our shoreline change. Nor’easters have beaten our coast lines, and I have watched our beaches grow smaller and smaller over time. So yes I do see that in the future we will have to retreat inland.

I do not need a barometer or recorded wind speeds during a storm to tell me it’s getting worse. What I can say is when you witness them, see their character and notice the subtle changes over the years you then start to wonder about global warming. My hyacinths and crocus flowers bloom every April, but not this year! I couldn't believe it when they were blooming this past December. Is this all from global warming or is it just a freaky weather time for us?

Those that have not watched "An Inconvenient Truth", may I suggest you consider watching it. It is a professional documentary full of facts such as visual proof that glaciers and lakes are shrinking, snows are melting, and shorelines are retreating.

I cannot say for sure that this is nothing but a normal cycle. I cannot say for sure that we are mostly to blame, but the weather has changed. There is no doubt about that.



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 02:11 PM
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I've also seen a few documentaries that showed how just a tiny change in the underwater current. The one that flows pretty much around the world can change the temp drastically. Its crazy how we are all dependent apon the saline content dropped from freezing icebergs that hit a shelf just hard enough to keep a current of water bringing warm waters to areas that it has been. Another thing i learned is that the world just came out of a "Mini" Ice age that ended sometime around the late 1800's. Its what made the crossing of the Deleware so harsh. The history of the Earth was filled with drastic climate change long before we were even a thought. More and more i'm starting to wonder if Global warming is just something that has happened before and will happen again whether we want it to or not.



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 02:14 PM
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I don't know...when a poster keeps brow beating us with the same propaganda over and over again all while insisting that they are the only ones with the facts; and, that if you disagree with them, they become belittling and insulting...Well then I think sarcasm is more than called for.

Again I stress that it isn't whether the climate changes and that the planet warms and cools periodically, or even whether co2 levels have been higher in the past.... all that is moot.

The real question is to what degree if any we are contributing to it AT THIS TIME, and if so what can, or should do about it.

Everything else obscures the real question.

[edit on 25-1-2007 by grover]

[edit on 25-1-2007 by grover]



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