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V-22: Wonder Weapon or Widow Maker

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posted on Jan, 24 2007 @ 09:15 AM
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Came across this article about the V-22.
Does anyone have any working knowledge of this aircraft or this a simple
case of POLITICS.


V-22 Flaws Called 'Lethal'
Fort Worth Star-Telegram | January 20, 2007

Hoping to re-energize congressional opposition to the Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey, critics of the controversial tilt-rotor aircraft released a study Thursday warning that the aircraft is plagued by inherent design flaws and will endanger U.S. lives when it goes into combat this year.
The study, commissioned by the Center for Defense Information, a Washington think tank, calls for Congress to scrap the V-22 and replace it with a lower-costing helicopter capable of performing similar missions, although it would be slower.
Co-manufactured by Bell Helicopter Textron of Fort Worth and Boeing Helicopters of Ridley Park, Pa., the Osprey was near cancellation early in the decade after four crashes killed 30. Two crashes occurred in 2000, resulting in 23 deaths.
It now has strong support in Congress as Marines move toward sending the first V-22 squadrons into combat -- possibly Iraq or Afghanistan -- by the summer.
link
www.airforce-technology.com...


[edit on 1/24/07 by FredT]




posted on Jan, 24 2007 @ 10:22 AM
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From what I understand, there are inherent aerodynamic problems when transitioning from horizontal to vertical flight modes under certain conditions.

I believe when the descent rate and forward velocity are approximately equal the problems occur, when this speed/rate is high enough, there are spanwise load changes (i.e. one engine is providing more thrust/lift than the other) and an imbalance will occur, resulting in loss of control.



posted on Jan, 24 2007 @ 05:00 PM
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this is the future. Im sure of it.



posted on Jan, 24 2007 @ 06:32 PM
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Those deaths occured during testing which they knew was dangerous (period). If we stopped testing or skipped testing because it was dangerous these accidents would be more frequent. Every machine has limits they tried to push the 22 to far they learned the hard way. sounds insensitive but its not me its the fact of testing any equitment.
I think they learned what they need to ( even if it was at the cost of lives) and they are now ready to field the equitment. I can only trust that they know what they are doing but if they hold any clear thoughts hopefully people would be aware if the company was just trying to force a product.

-to be direct I think its politics.

[edit on 22/08/06 by Canada_EH]



posted on Jan, 24 2007 @ 07:20 PM
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The last crash was due to a condition known as Vortex ring state where one side of the rotors loses lift and the a/c rolls over. Im curious (Ive never claimed to be an aerodynamics expert) how the CH-47 with its two rotors avoids the same fate?

That can be overcome via flight protocols, but Im much more concerned about how this aircraft will fare when hit by say an RPG while transitioning etc.

[edit on 1/24/07 by FredT]



posted on Jan, 24 2007 @ 09:39 PM
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Probably the same as any other chopper that's hit with an RPG, not too good. I wouldn't listen to CDI, they are just as bad as the GAO, these people think every ground breaking design should have no problems whatsoever. They use early design flaws to call for the entire program to be canceled. If the military wants it, who cares what civilians and politicians say?



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 09:28 AM
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The V-22 and CV-22 platforms at this point are way too developed to simply scrap now. Don't let it turn into another Commanche.

The V-22 transition errors can simply be overcome by FBW and protocols.

Shattered OUT...



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 07:53 AM
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Originally posted by ShatteredSkies
The V-22 and CV-22 platforms at this point are way too developed to simply scrap now. Don't let it turn into another Commanche.

The V-22 transition errors can simply be overcome by FBW and protocols.

Shattered OUT...


Completely agree and the FBW and protocols aren't going to be a big hinderance to the V-22 either. Tha machine will still be able to preform leaps and bounds better then anything the marines army etc are using right now.



posted on Jan, 28 2007 @ 11:31 PM
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I hope so.
This is going to transform the marines forever, i hope it is going to be a most sucessfull transport.



posted on Jan, 28 2007 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by WestPoint23
If the military wants it, who cares what civilians and politicians say?


I dunno, maybe those of us who don't like paying $300 for a toilet seat. The way most democracies work is that civies control the military, other way around in place's like Argentina (at least during the 80's)

Nonetheless I can see a lot of possibilities with this aircraft, or at least the VTOL techniques being used. This should greatly enhance extraction and med-evac capabilities to interesting heights.



posted on Jan, 29 2007 @ 01:03 AM
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Originally posted by cyberdude78
The way most democracies work is that civies control the military...


And that too in some respects is very wrong, you wouldn't choose a Chihuahua to lead a pack of wolves now would you? But alas that's a different topic and discussion altogether...



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 09:36 AM
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Well I found an interesting articile that address some of the concerns that were rasied in this thread so I'm posting a link to it. I hope it will help provide a bit more information to people.
www.navair.navy.mil...

As for myself I believe it will do just fine. Its not imune to danger and the combat feild but it is a more modern machine more effective and provides new and needed capabilties to the marines.



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 10:33 AM
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Originally posted by tomcat ha
this is the future. Im sure of it.


I beg to think differently, maybe of manned flight but the boundaries are limitless when the human factor is taken out. Is there any difference between the V 22 and the Harrier or the F35 VTOL?? Not really in essence, going from vertical to horizontal is nothing new, just the methodology is all.

Peace, Mondo



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 11:02 AM
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I think you could say that say the zeps of today are the future compared to the zeps of 1912. just cause the out come is the same the tech that you use to get there. I think you do have a point Mondo but thats not the best way to describe it.
When you remove the manned factor from anything people call it the future but with you reasoning new tech doesn't matter and anything that does the same job is old news ie. harrier and f-35.



posted on Feb, 2 2007 @ 11:28 AM
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noted and I guess I agree to some point Canada, I just think that with the removal of the human factor that the ability for technology to take new directions never thought of before is limitless.
I hope that makes better sense of my thoughts!!??

Peace, Mondo



posted on Apr, 4 2007 @ 04:17 AM
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There seems to be accidents in the development of radical new technology like V-22, but I think it is maturing, and will be fine. I also think that the lift fan technology of the F-35 could be used in a fast transport, say using dual lift fans built into the wing roots maybe, or a separate appendage.



posted on Apr, 5 2007 @ 06:54 AM
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MV-22 On Track for Initial Operational Capability


(Source: US Department of Defense; issued April 4, 2007)


WASHINGTON --- The MV-22 Osprey has accomplished two major steps required for initial operational capability (IOC) with completion of a major Block B operational test period and a successful IOC Supportability Review pre-board, program officials announced at a press conference April 4.

Col. Mathew Mulhern, V-22 Osprey Joint Program Manager, and Gene Cunningham, Bell Boeing V-22 Deputy Program Manager, briefed reporters at the Navy League Sea-Air-Space Expo in Washington on the MV-22’s progress toward combat readiness. The Marine Corps’ tiltrotor is expected to earn the go-ahead this summer for operational deployment, bolstered in part by the aircraft’s high performance under mission-representative testing in February and March.

Marine Tiltrotor Test and Evaluation Squadron 22 (VMX-22) put the Block B Osprey – the combat configuration of the aircraft – through its paces for that evaluation period, known to testers as OT-IIIA. Crews completed 120 Block B flight hours and an additional 65 hours on Block A aircraft, in real-world scenarios over 18 days in the California and Arizona deserts. Crewmembers from Marine Medium Tiltrotor Squadron 263 (VMM-263) and Marine Medium Tiltrotor Training Squadron 204 (VMMT-204) also participated.

“Although the official test report won’t be issued until later this month, initial results tell us that the Osprey really showed its full potential, both in terms of mission performance and reliability,” Mulhern says. Block B improvements for the Bell Boeing tiltrotor include the Ramp Mounted Weapon System, retractable refueling probe, personnel hoist and fast rope system, mission auxiliary tanks, and numerous reliability and maintainability upgrades.

“The aircraft did very well. We were actually above our normal mission-capable averages for those three weeks,” says Lt. Col. Denny Sherwood, VMX-22 aircraft maintenance officer. Maintenance resources and supplies were all in keeping with standard deployment planning, he says. “We had the aircraft we needed to accomplish all the missions despite the high op tempo.”

Those missions included a 2,100 mile self-deployment, assault raids, company insertions, recon insertions and extractions, casualty evacuations, tactical recovery of aircraft and personnel, noncombatant evacuation operations, and battlefield logistics. Missions involved fast rope and personnel hoist operations, external lift of the M777 Lightweight Howitzer, 1,200 rounds fired from the Ospreys’ M-240D ramp-mounted machine guns, and 22 aerial refuelings. A third of the flying was done at night, including eight aerial refuelings.



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Some great news to update



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