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"If you could ask a time traveler a question what would you ask?"

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posted on Oct, 12 2007 @ 06:18 PM
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Hi, UKRed5!!

I had to respond to ask what Einstein, Stephen Hawking, and Nikola Tesla would say about the seeming impossible feats performed by these ships now appearing in our skies in greater numbers. And what about the notion that a human being could travel at what TD calls "Hyperspeed" (i.e., beyond the speed of light)? This is something TD and others say they have experienced.

Stephen Hawking is one of the greatest minds on our planet, but even he, after setting forth his "theory" on black holes, had to go back and change his theorems to account for what he later "perceived"; something that directly contradicted his earlier hypotheses.

You seem somewhat familiar with the information you shared (i.e., the Butterfly Effect and Novikov’s Theory), but I would ask what authority was granted to individuals who have decided that they've understood, fundamentally and absolutely, something that they've never experienced?

As in the Stephen Hawking example, theories and hypotheses can only carry you so far. They (i.e., our perception and reasoning) are our, at the moment, only practical foundation in attempting to understanding more about the visible universe. Our perceptions have limits. And when experience contradicts these things then what?

There are a lot of folks who have become so intimately involved with scientific or philosophic theorems that they have taken these educated guesses, and social sciences, practical and reasonable as they may be, as God, truly. The only true God is experience. And with the unpredictability, and true ineffability of the universe we live in, extrapolation and prediction is a risky game.

But here, in TD, is an individual who may have indeed experienced the impossible. What can be said about this? We can talk for hours upon hours about what we believe is or isn't possible, but we may have a case here where this person's experiences could throw reality - true reality, back in our faces.

Science is an exploration. It is not meant to create a set of laws - ultimate laws, for the entire universe for all time. This is a misunderstanding. It is also impossible to do so. If there were a law that could be applied to every universe and every reality that exists what would that law, or those laws be?

The individuals in question, including the theories you've proposed, have not made a scientific study of time travel. They have extrapolated and speculated based on their understanding of how the universe works. Our minds have dared to reach beyond the mundane - what we can touch and feel - and have mislead us into believing that we've been places we have not. This includes time travel. We've gotten ahead of ourselves.

Science has, however, recently discovered faster than light communication in very small particles, which has made those individuals making this finding go back to the drawing board. This is happening all of the time.

To me, if these great thinkers were participating in this thread, it is my belief that they would approach the subject with an open mind. A rigid mind leaves no room for anything new to enter; and I think these individuals could see that, and enjoyed a sense of play in their search for understanding. At the very least, they understood that they were children in a playground beyond imagining.

I've also seen, however, how stubborn people can be; scientists, politicians, philosophers, and the like...But creating a religion out of science is like building a sand castle...The tide is going to come in at some point and set you straight...

Stephen Hawking learned something he thought was impossible, and it made him revise his previous hypothesis. And I think I remember reading somewhere that toward the end of Einstein's life that he was in the process of completely rewriting one of his greatest theories.

If these, some of the greatest minds on our planet, can recognize the fallibility of theories they take to be absolute, immutable truths, then we should at least have the acumen to follow their example.

Show me a natural law, and I'll bet someone can break it...




posted on Oct, 12 2007 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by UKRed5
 


I think you have to take in account the soul of a person. Even though Hitler was probably one of the most evil people on the planet. He is probably reincarnated in this day and time as someone else. Now what would happen if you killed him before his time, and he didn't get a chance to reincarnate as someone else in this time that may have very well caused certain events to take place that came to the outcome of your birth. If you look at some stories and stuff, there seem to be allot of people reincarnated from WW3. You see from my research and understanding everyone made a choice to come into this world, and they were doing it because of their high self plan. Besides doesn't everyone come back to life during the mass landing or something, i mean people that have died come back don't they. I think you have to realize just like what Bob Dean is saying, that we are in school and in one of the hardest schools in the galaxy maybe even the universes...but still that wont stop me from going back in time and getting myself a 1970 barracuda...loool, not even god himself can stop me...lol jp but i love that car

Vut i think you have to take in account the soul, if you go back in time and try to change things...thats just my theory
also i would like to point out some things that are of concern...UFO sightings are spreading like wild fire,especially those red lights...

Same exact ufos showing up all over the world!!!


And i would like to point out that Al Gore won the nobel peace prize for his Global warming stuff...this might cause him to run for president which seems like the kind of stuff Benjamin Fulford was talking about.

Al gore Nobel peace prize

I still dont understand why they don't bring up the global warming on the other planets in the solar system.



The secret government of the US and EU has promised a major overhaul in the wake of the warning it got from the Chinese secret society, according to a senior Japanese public security police officer and Freemason who has been acting as an intermediary with the Chinese secret society. “Expect big changes this autumn,” he said in comments confirmed by a member of the Japanese royal family. “What you will be seeing is the unwinding of George Bush senior’s 50-year campaign to turn the U.S. into a fascist regime,” the secret police agent says. “George Bush senior is now a broken man showing signs of senile dementia,” he adds.

If the sources are to be believed, U.S. President George Bush’s government will resign, before his term expires, and will be replaced by an interim regime headed by Al Gore. This will start a 2-3 year transition period during which suppressed technology, such as free energy, will be released and a new system for running the planet will be implemented, according to these two sources. “They [The illuminati] know their rule is ending but they do not want it to end in an ugly way,” the security police source says.


benjaminfulford.com...





[edit on 12-10-2007 by ATSGUY]



posted on Oct, 13 2007 @ 08:39 AM
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John Michell and Pierre LaPlace hypothesized about the existence of black holes using Newton’s Laws in the 1790’s.

Einstein hypothesized about the existence of black holes using a mathematical model we know as ‘Relativity Theory’

Low and behold, in 1971 the Uhuru X-Ray satellite discovers Cygnus X-1.

As with all science, someone has an idea then attempts to prove or disprove that idea with what we call an ‘experiment’ An experiment is a prediction, in order for that idea to be taken seriously, predictions must prove absolutely conclusive. It is therefore plausible to predict ideas and events that we can not see or hear (I accept in the grand scheme of things we know relatively little)

The ‘Butterfly’ effect and Nivikov’s theory are predictions based on a logical outcome of what we already know. However, we lack the scientific method (an experiment) that would allow us prove or disprove these theories, just as John Michell, Pierre Laplace and Einstein. The ‘Butterfly’ effect (aka Chaos theory) is based on proven mathematical models that allow us to predict their outcomes.

You can not expect me to believe Einstein, Newton, Darwin and a myriad of other brilliant scientists are wrong. The affect of their ‘ideas’ are all around us, 24 hours a day 7 days a week. TV, cars, planes, space flight, computers, roads, weapons, (the list goes on) are all based on their ideas that are scientifically proven.

What I do accept, there are more efficient ways to affect the same outcome, or what I call ‘Evolution of Technology’

For instance (purely hypothetical)

A car engine that runs on water, as by-product the car fitted with that engine is able to sustain high speed travel (300mph) for long periods.

Our understanding of basic scientific principles stays the same, our solution to a problem stays the same (in this instance getting from A to B) but we have a better more efficient understanding of the same conclusion. It is entirely possible to arrive at the same conclusion using different methods, take ‘Super String’ theory for instance. Sometimes using different methods produces unexpected (sometimes beneficial) results although arriving at the same conclusion.

‘True’ FTL, in which matter exceeds the speed of light in its own local region, is considered to be impossible, because of the special theory of relativity, which prohibits a particle with subluminal velocity to accelerate to, or exceed, the speed of light in a vacuum (special relativity does not forbid the existence of particles that travel faster than light at all times!!!).

On the other hand, what some physicists refer to as ‘apparent’ or ‘effective’ FTL is the hypothesis that unusually distorted regions of spacetime might permit matter to reach distant locations faster than light taking the ‘normal’ (point A to point B) route (though not faster than light moving through the distorted region) which I have already mentioned. Same understanding of basic scientific principles, same problem, same outcome, different way of going about achieving the same result, in this case FTL travel, all within the ‘constraints’ of what we already know and understand.

Apparent FTL is not excluded by general relativity. Examples of apparent FTL proposals are the Alcubierre drive and the traversable wormhole.

Conclusion: If ‘apparent’ FTL is possible (the discovery of black holes suggests it is), then time travel is also theoretically possible, but only within the realms of being to observe from a distance.



posted on Oct, 13 2007 @ 08:39 AM
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Repeat: The very idea a super intelligent being would travel from point A to point B, travelling in a straight line, FTL, is completely man made. Furthermore, whoever supports these theories has very little understanding of how the universe works. When you consider even us primitive humans can imagine, theorize, predict then prove the existence of black hole (spacetime distortion)! As I’ve already said, when you consider the sheer size of the universe, FTL is an inefficient way of travelling intergalactic distances, it’s just to slow!!

Do I believe in the existence of UFO’s? Yes, undoubtedly. Do I believe those UFO’s are alien IE not of this world? Probably not, UFO’s are just that, unidentified flying objects, almost certainly man made. Do I believe human kind has developed technology that ‘seemingly’ defies basic scientific principles? Yes.

If you can prove 100% without a shadow of a doubt these (or at least some of these) UFO’s are alien, please show me.

I repeat my last request. If TD is in possession of knowledge and/or technology that allows him to travel through time, please… share it with us.

Kind reagrds,

UKRed5

[edit on 13-10-2007 by UKRed5]



posted on Oct, 13 2007 @ 02:37 PM
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OTD - That was funny. I am in a fishing town. We do have electricity. Hydro.... Water power.... The people live in a clump, in the wilderness.

Wasp - That was too much. That poster has not loged on again. Those posts were made when I was on thumbing through the line up. I went to that thread and there it was. That poster registered on my B Day this year.

The sky could be cloudy, but if it is over 2 days we all may get a chance to look. Oct. 18 and 19, to the west, and during the night, or possibly during the day as well. Look for a Gold _ _ _ _ _.

That is all.

Or could that be the start?



posted on Oct, 14 2007 @ 06:26 AM
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Hey OTD, Win52, ATSGUY, TD & UKRed5 !!!!!!!!!

I will leave OnTheDeck to comment on your posts UKRed5 as my head hurts when trying to work out the laws & effects of Time Travel....lol

So how has your NWO been going OTD? We are all awaiting your announcements and plans. I vote we change the world currency from oil to beer for a start, as beer is renewable and that can only be a good thing.
It was a pity that the radio show did not go to plan, but what can you do?
Hey have you had any more experiences at the house you mentioned? Did you see the episode of Ghost Hunters two weeks ago? They got the clearest EVP's I have heard, and that was in an infants products department store...lol

Speaking of oil, from the oil video you posted ATSGUY, was there ever a date mentioned about when the action on Iran was to start? That would be interesting to know and follow.

I still haven't heard any more about the gold glow Win52. I could not make out anything other than it would be something noticeable by us that things are on the right track.

So what’s with dreams anyways? I think there are two types. One is a dream that enacts in a way that you would if you were really in the scene. The other is a nonsense dream where crazy things happen that have no resemblance to the real world or how you would behave or act.
I had a nonsense UFO dream the other night. I was in a car with a bunch of people who I did not know during the day. We see a UFO and they all get scared. I get out and wave to it and it fly’s down and runs me over.
The impact should have killed me but it only damaged my left hand as after that it was in a sling. Then for the rest of the dream I kept using my left hand only to realize that it was meant to be broken so I had to keep putting it back in the sling. So it was not broken but I had to think it was. Very stupid stuff.
It is just crazy when you compare that to the other one I had with the dentist that played out like I was there.



posted on Oct, 14 2007 @ 01:37 PM
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Hi, ATSGUY, win 52, Cyber, UKRed5, TD, and everyone looking at the clock haha...tick tock...

UKRed5, all of this boils down to one's own belief system, and not a scientific debate, because our science has failed in creating an immutable set of laws that govern this universe; in fact it has struggled to create a set of laws that it hasn't rewritten, or reformulated in its short history. Any scientist worth his salt will tell you that we are still learning about the force we call gravity.

Newton can observe an apple falling, and can name the force he believes caused this apple to fall toward the earth, but that doesn't bring us an inch closer to truly understanding what it is, why it happens, and who we are. We are simply naming and understanding the processes we perceive go on around us. But to extrapolate what is behind these processes, or to extend our observations into our limitless universe is folly, pure and simple.

I am not saying that science hasn't provided a reliable framework in understanding what is going on around us; but it is limited. My understanding of modern science is limited, but I do recognize that in its short history that the greatest discovery we've made thus far is how little we understand of what limited observations we've made of our universe thus far.

As far as I am concerned, I have been convinced that at least one ufo that has been talked about, photographed, or videotaped is actually the creation of and vehicle for an advanced, intelligent race. And given that there is without a doubt at least highly advanced, intelligent race visiting our planet, and which has been visiting our planet for eons (see crystalinks.com for a preview), then there is every chance that they are not the only ones.

How is it that such advanced craft were portrayed hundreds and thousands of years before the advent of heavier than air flight? I'm not just basing my observation on the mountains of photographic and video evidence, or the personal testimony of members of our military and government, but on the history of this subject, all of the above evidence and testimony, and my own personal observations and experiences.

The evidence is overwhelming, and it's actually a novelty to see someone on these boards that not only doesn't believe in the existence of intelligent life, but also doesn't believe that those intelligent beings have ever visited this planet.

In all sincerity, and with the greatest respect to a fellow human being, now is the time to pull our noses out of our science books and turn our eyes to the skies. All of the above evidence is so persuasive that I am reluctant to continue this conversation. If you don't believe that intelligent, highly advanced races are visiting this planet, then there is no jumping off point to believe that our limited understanding of physics is going to allow you the leap to believe in time travel.

Improbability and impossibility are not synonymous.

Our sciences, as advanced as they are, are still processes of organization and prediction based on subjective observation (as limited as it is) of observable, seemingly objective, what we call "physical" matter. We do not have an understanding of where matter originates but, philosophically, it has been speculated that the reality we experience is actually an expression of a true reality that underlies our perceived reality. This is in fact something that Eastern mystics have understood, and for some, experienced, for millennia before the existence of Western scientific thought.

Einstein was onto something when he said that matter and energy are interconvertible. What we've discovered, and what Eastern mystics and lamas understood fundamentally long before we did, is that matter IS energy. Energy as particles or waves or both is the paradox that our quantum physicists struggle with, with regard to observable (and some not so observable) - what they call "building blocks" of physical matter and the universe around us.

I found it particularly interesting that when Western physicists actually sat down to talk with Eastern lamas, that they ended up essentially discussing the same things, just from different perspectives. These exchanges intrigued the physicists, and prompted further meaningful exchanges with these Eastern mystics.

The problem with Western science is that it seems to be very focused on physical matter, and doesn't take consciousness into consideration; or at least hadn't until very recently. When our physicists began studies that, astonishingly, reflected an observed effect on the object by the observer, simply through the process of observation, the notion of consciousness finally entered into the equation, and they again looked to the East.

Focus too much on text books, or with a blind, narrow-minded focus on purely physical matter closes down observation and doesn't allow new or transformational information to enter into the observer's field of awareness. It also produces a calcified, stubborn view of the universe that doesn't allow the scientist or explorer to see something as clear as the nose on his face.

This requires an honest reflection and answer, but do we really, fundamentally understand what black holes are? Do we know what their purpose is? Do we even fully understand ourselves? A Western scientist will jump in immediately with an answer, and say this is "such and such" and we are "such and such", but truly what are we? What is a human being?

Western science has become egotistical enough to believe that it has answered every question and that we're just left to live out our lives in this concrete universe, for which we understand our place and the laws that govern this universe in perpetuity.

When you name and explain everything away, and believe that you have completely understood and answered all of the questions about your reality, your reality becomes dead and you stop learning and growing, and you effectively create an obstruction to new, challenging experiences and viewpoints. You stop growing. Fortunately, this universe isn't designed to let beings sit back and rest on their laurels.

Why is there a hexagon-shaped storm the size of several planet earths spinning at Saturn's north pole? I see head scratching...There is much more to this universe that challenges our current understanding of it, and the tide that washes away our sandcastles is going to keep coming in.

There's a very simple observation that's been made often, and that is that at one point our "scientists" though that the earth was flat, that our planet was the center of our solar system, and other scientific "truth". These were, presumably scientific "absolutes".

In my book, there should be no such thing as absolutism. Is it an absolute fact that time travel cannot exist, and is in fact impossible? Some may believe this. Someone with the a little experience in life and some common sense should tell you that to see any presumption about the physical world around us as absolute fact in perpetuity - that the earth is flat, that our planet is the center of our solar system, that heavier than air flight is impossible, that matter and energy are different, or that time travel is impossible would do well to be cautious in coming to a final conclusion.

You are perfectly welcome to come to your own conclusion on the subject of time travel. The folks you mention have put forth very persuasive and learned refutations against its existence.

It seems that your position is more that we create the laws that seem to govern the universe, rather than simply creating a system to catalog what we've observed up to this point. There is a sense of the gospel in your interpretation of what you've read. To that I can only say that there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in our philosophy (and science")..


[edit on 14-10-2007 by OnTheDeck]



posted on Oct, 14 2007 @ 04:09 PM
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Wow what a post OTD. I am 100% on board and have been for I think my whole life. I believe these things with so much conviction, that I can't comprehend how they DON'T believe. It is not even so much that I have been convinced, it is like I feel I know. Maybe that does not make sense. I don't know exactly how to explain it. Either way, it was refreshing to see your words.



posted on Oct, 14 2007 @ 09:12 PM
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Is Timedrifter still answering questions(sorry, but after reading 11 pages and then finding out I still have 60+ more to go, I kinda gave up)?

If so:

1. Is there a procedure or something to stop yourself from making paradoxes?

2. How big of an effect in time do you have to make before you start seriously screwing with a timeline; and what effect would that have on you(if any?)

3. If you go into the past; how do you keep people from freaking out and burning you as a witch when they see your clothes, the way you speak, etc.?

4. And finally: Are you still accepting volunteers?


(P.S. sorry for the post if the thread has drifted off from the original topic over the past 50+ pages)



posted on Oct, 15 2007 @ 06:41 AM
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Hey Core90 & all of the usual suspects !!!!!

It is still ok to post questions.
The thread has evolved a little so we sort of fill in the time in between questions.
OnTheDeck will ask TimeDrifter and post back soon I am sure.

Well it didn't take long for a golden glow video to be posted in another thread here in ATS. 10mins. The good stuff starts around the 3rd min.
www.youtube.com...
Is this what I was referring to the other day? I dunno....lol I don't think so.
Does it remind me that we are still on track? Well it is most surely another dress rehearsal as I like to say.
As you see at the end of the video there are no mountains in the background so the lights are airborne in origin. I just wish the lady filming had of just jumped the fence and went running towards them whilst recording.
The British sure have started a fetish lately for 'Chinese lanterns'

Remember to have your recording device handy at all moments.



posted on Oct, 15 2007 @ 07:08 AM
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I would ask him to kick Steven S***** in the balls everyday for the entire week of June 20th, 1985.


That's just wishful thinking.



posted on Oct, 15 2007 @ 02:51 PM
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Hi, Cyber, ATSGUY, win 52, UKRed5, sputniksteve (AKA Nacho Libre), TD (AKA ufotimetravel, skunkworker, Renato, and man of the hour), Core90, DeadFlagBlues, and every terrific, hopeful person keeping up with this thread/story!!

First, Cyber, you asked,



So how has your NWO been going OTD?

Hey have you had any more experiences at the house you mentioned?

Did you see the episode of Ghost Hunters two weeks ago?


Good, no, and no. hehe Don't get me in trouble, associating me with the NWO.

Actually, I'm not against a one world ideology. In fact, the separations that exist are our creations, and I'm not for separatism, or exclusion. We are all one race.

In fact, I've said this before, but I would extend the idea of abolishing the notion of separation to the cosmos, and suggest that every being, physical and non-physical (in a manner of speaking obviously), animate and inanimate, of every vibratory spectrum in this universe originate from the same source (i.e., essentially we are all one). All are simply refractions of the one light. There is no greater truth than this.

I'm waiting patiently for new experiences. Haven't had any at that house recently.

Lately, it's just been a lot of helicopter activity in my neighborhood. Last night there were three or four flying right near my house, and one of them just had these two faint red lights flashing back and forth. I had to get almost right under it to see that it was indeed a helicopter...They always have at least one white light, but this one had a red flash at the rear, followed a second later by another toward the front...Strange...

When you're into this stuff, you notice a lot of "potentially" strange stuff, but I'm even more skeptical now that I don't want to taint, or color my experiences unnecessarily...Keeping my feet on the ground...

As for dreams, I don't know what they are. Hope to know someday...They are terrific vacations though, that's for sure...

Hi, sputniksteve!! I appreciate your comments. You know, I have this sense that if you're drawn to this stuff there's a reason for it. It's been said that a decision was made by each of us before we were born, and that we will be making a conscious decision again soon about our individual futures...We will see...

Hi, Core90!! I sent your questions off to TD and he responded. His responses are below in yellow bold type,



1. Is there a procedure or something to stop yourself from making paradoxes?

the only thing I can think of is seeking your results from the action you may have taken and if they are undesired, go back and try something else.

2. How big of an effect in time do you have to make before you start seriously screwing with a timeline; and what effect would that have on you(if any?)

the moment you are in another time you are messing with it and it effects you where your memories are only in your mind and may not have happened or changed even though it may be indirect, as far as physical effects, I dont know of any nor can I remember, humans can withstand electro magnetic activity

3. If you go into the past; how do you keep people from freaking out and burning you as a witch when they see your clothes, the way you speak, etc.?

go prepared, if you go dressed wrong, expect anything. as far as language, there is a brain scanner that programs languages into your brain

4. And finally: Are you still accepting volunteers?

of course



I said this before, but I may be able to expand on TD's responses. I will do so when time allows. Essentially, TD was given free reign, as far as he recalls, with this technology. But there are always folks who are terrifically more advanced who oversee these processes.

From what I've learned from TD, and elsewhere, there are races/beings who oversee any human being's use of advanced technology. Just as we wouldn't be able to destroy our race with nuclear technology, the same goes with time travel. TD also talks about his own personal timeline, and the world timeline, and differentiates between these two as far as what he's able to affect...

I'm still putting the picture together...Ultimately, if your question is, "Would those who have this technology (i.e., very advanced intelligences) be so irresponsible as to allow one human being to decimate, or negatively affect their entire race - especially from simple curiosity?" the answer must be, no. There seemed to be, however, a sense of humor, and of playfulness in TD's accounts of the beings with which he was in contact...These peeks into the workings of an advanced race are shared by others who claim to have had contact, and it paints a picture of friendliness and playfulness...I really want to know what's going on out there!! haaha

As for the volunteer part, people are still welcome to volunteer, but neither TD nor I will make any sort of contact with folks that do. He and I trust the process enough to know if something is going to happen, it will with or without our direct involvement. So volunteer and keep your eyes open.

Cyber, I watched your video of the lights, as well as a few others. We're seeing a lot of these. Just add them to the pile. ahah Chinese lanterns are the new swamp gas...It's real...Hang in there true believers...We hope to see more and more indisputable sightings soon...

I was looking at prices on telescopes today...Doing the research...Specifically trying to find one to hook a digital camera to...

Hi, DeadFlagBlues!! You said,



I would ask him to kick Steven S***** in the balls everyday for the entire week of June 20th, 1985.


We're firing up the time machine. He won't see it coming. haahah KIDDING!!!

This is a peace-loving mission. The hostile targeting of genitalia will not be undertaken by anyone involved here.

Maybe you'll get a chance to travel back yourself...

Thank you, everyone, for your questions, insights, thoughts, and posts!!

I feel that I am looking at the world around me in a totally different way; even more so over the last year. I hope everyone following this, and everything else quickly developing around the world feels the same.

You may be frustrated that you're not seeing a fleet over your head. Just realize that ALL of the flybys and sightings that you come across are meant for everyone. Not just some guy in the UK, U.S., or China, or a small group of eyewitnesses. These beings understand exactly what they're doing. This contact is well thought out; as much as it can be... Take pleasure in these things as all of this unfolds...

I was thinking along these lines with regard to our own anger and frustration that any advanced technology has been kept from us by those in power. In large part, because human lives could be saved, but our damage to this planet could also be mitigated, or reversed.

Do you think that an advanced race would share technology with us, so that a minority could profit from it while the rest of our race and the planet suffers? No.

I am waiting for these things to come to pass, so this terrific injustice can also be set right.

[edit on 15-10-2007 by OnTheDeck]



posted on Oct, 16 2007 @ 06:59 AM
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Hey OTD !!!!!

What do you think it is with the Helicopters?
Did you see the ones in the latest F.A.S.T. update?
If they are buzzing this guys house then that is insane. Maybe you can recognise some of them?

I saw one a few weeks ago, go past my house from left to right then not long after it had gone, another one that was identical came from left to right following the same path. It seemed strange at the time as there was not enough time for it to circle around like that.

I still have a suspicion about the aircraft still spraying stuff. I have seen twice on my way home in the last week aircraft up at a high altitude spraying away. The stream they spray is more traditional in that it is not sprayed wide and disappears a shortish distance behind the plane. They were spraying near each other one horizontal the other vertically.
I think they may have changed their chemical compound so that it is not so noticeable. The other night I was outside in the twilight and you could notice huge trails of thin smog criss crossed in the sky. This was not visible in the daylight, but it was in the conditions that were present just before dark and the approaching storm.
The sky does not seem as blue as it used to be. Especially in the afternoons. It is more whitish now. Something to be wary of anyway.

What do you think of the walking Aliens on the F.A.S.T. site? It is sort of theufokid in style. It is rather creepy really. Why didn't he just walk up to them? It would have been funny to see one tap him on the shoulder...lol


[edit on 16-10-2007 by Cyber_Wasp]

[edit on 16-10-2007 by Cyber_Wasp]



posted on Oct, 16 2007 @ 05:05 PM
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hahah i guess we are in the time of the week/month/year were nothing is happening and it is very boring. With all the Doom accusations, E.T contact, and new golden age material that has everyone just begging to find some news or current events that could set forth the coming of the mass landing and et contact...we often find ourselves bored to death...lol

But i have been reading more info on Sheldon Nidle, it seems that even back in 1997 he was aware of the governments task to control the world...he really went into detail on it on one interview ( i will try to find the link) All in all his words seem very promising.

So no really big news to talk about except the new Spain ufo video

es.youtube.com...

it is a possible fleet of ufos, shot on October 13, 2007 in Spain.

now i know what allot of people are going to say ( Chinese lanterns) but take a look at these videos and compare the Chinese lanterns to the Spain ufo video...i dont no about you but i dont think those are lanterns...lol

www.youtube.com...
video.google.com...

hope everyone is having a boring weekend...lol i know i am



posted on Oct, 16 2007 @ 07:38 PM
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Have you been to 2012, if so what really is going to happen?

How bad are the effects of changing something in the past, trying to fix a problem/do better,in the future? (if involved or witnessed an action) Also, what world issue would you find as an easy fix by changing it while being back in time?

What are the non obvious things we overlook about the time travel process itself?

How many dimensions do you think you've been through?



posted on Oct, 17 2007 @ 06:26 PM
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Hi, Cyber, win 52, TD, ATSGUY, dreamingawake, DeadFlagBlues, and everyone watching the grass grow...or the paint dry... ahaha!!!

I'm posting responses to dreamingawake's questions from TD.

Hi, dreamingawake!! You asked a few questions. I'll include them below with TD's responses in bold yellow text,


Have you been to 2012, if so what really is going to happen?
the shift is real, the final steps to our accelerated evolution and the beginning of the new garden

How bad are the effects of changing something in the past?
the difference between certain types of existence and non existence when it comes to people and technology

trying to fix a problem/do better,in the future? (if involved or witnessed an action)

usually something small can make the difference, finding the very source and the time of initialization of certain actions and thoughts of people that create the effect

Also, what world issue would you find as an easy fix by changing it while being back in time?

unfortunately, I cant think of anything "easy", certain changes can lead to myself or others to not exist, IE stopping my birth with making big changes, I need to ponder this one, any suggestions?

What are the non obvious things we overlook about the time travel process itself?

machines speed, things spin extremely fast and size does not matter when it comes to the device itself, the machine evolves too.

How many dimensions do you think you've been through?

at least 2, possibly more, not sure


There you go! Great questions!!

The shift...The shift...I ran across a good site on the shift/changes that are occurring right now and ended up linking to several other great sites.

I wanted to first indicate how the shift is being described by various groups of individuals, both physical and, ostensibly, not haha

Without question, the human race is undergoing a shift in consciousness. Whether this is effected by the terrific changes occurring, both terrestrial and non-terrestrial, or if they are events/processes that are occurring simultaneously remains to be seen.

I tend to lean toward the latter, and suggest that our galaxy is undergoing massive changes; not just the human race and our little planet. This means that there is a force (you decided for yourself what the source is) that is transforming our galaxy, our race, and everything in-between. And what's so special about this transformation is that it is accelerated. We're not moving at the pace of a slow evolution.

We are seeing a massive planetwide increase in contact with non-terrestrial races. The evidence "gifted" to us by these advanced intelligences is growing, transforming, and we are actually beginning to see very compelling photo and video evidence of some of these beings themselves. We will clearly need time to determine the authenticity of what we have so far, but given the scope of what has come to light over the past five years, I think it would be safe to say that we are at the next stage of contact.

An unprecedented amount of material has come to light just over the past twenty-four months, including the discovery of several earth-like planets, and all of the presumably leaked information about structures on the moon and Mars. There is so much information coming to light of late, so many alternate energy discoveries, and so many whistleblowers that it almost smacks of a program of disclosure. The amount of information that has surfaced over the past twenty-four months is astounding. And the rate at which it is still coming out is truly mind-boggling.

Marcia Shafer (I think this was pointed out earlier by ATSGUY) suggests in the interview she and her husband Bob Dean did with Project Camelot, that the final stage of disclosure is the release of information proving the existence of unnatural structures on a neighboring planet (see moon and Mars). Program or not, we are already here.

TD already said this, and his observation is correct - we've already had disclosure. The Disclosure Project was a public testimony of government, military, scientific and other related professionals made to the United States Congress. It's just unfortunate that a few months later September 11 happened.

There's another ATS thread that was opened because of this video, but there's a great eight minute video on Mars anomalies. I also found a website called marsanomalyresearch.com that includes much more information.

I also found a photograph of the dark side of the moon, presumably, that shows what are unquestionably artificial structures. I found this photo at anomalicresearch.com. If it's a fake it doesn't detract much from the revelations being made now. If it's real it just adds to the momentum.

I want to take an excerpt from a David Wilcock article at divinecosmos.com. The article is dated October 9, 2007, and is entitled, "Your DNA is Changing! (Part I)",


ALL THE RULES ARE CHANGING

Everything we think we know about DNA is changing. Four new studies have emerged to support our original hypothesis — that DNA, and life as we know it, is assembled by a universal energy field that appears to be conscious:

1. Normal conditions in space cause DNA-like helixes to form spontaneously. [See our previous article.]

2. "Junk DNA" now turns out to be just as active as the genes — completely trashing all mainstream models of how DNA works.

3. Bacteria grown in space are 300 percent more toxic than bacteria grown in identical conditions on Earth.

4. A simple marine organism spontaneously evolves after being zapped with a special form of light.

These are only the latest additions to an impressive body of data we have been building up since 2000, when we first realized that "before there was DNA, there was the Wave that created it."

By the time you finish this article series, you will see how all of this neatly ties together.


SOURCE

Just to tickle your taste buds for David's excellent articles. Does he "neatly tie it all together"? hhaa You decide.

CONTINUED...



posted on Oct, 17 2007 @ 06:26 PM
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CONTINUED FROM POST ABOVE...

David Wilcock frequently references the Ra Material in his articles and books, and is indicated as providing "additional compilations" on the link I just provided.

The Ra Material was channeled through Carla Rueckert in the early 1980's. The website I linked to above indicates that the sessions began on Jan 15, 1981. That same site explains how the process worked, and provides an overview of the material.

I clicked to a section in the material linked above and just picked the first question and answer I saw. The material can be profound,


7. THE BEGINNING OF ALL THINGS

I. THE INFINITE ONE = THE SOURCE = INTELLIGENT INFINITY

A. THE INFINITE ONE IS UNFOCUSED AND UNDIFFERENTIATED

QUESTION: Can you tell me the first known thing in creation?

RA: The first known thing in creation is infinity. (B1, 129)

B. AWARENESS DAWNS

QUESTION: What is the next step?

RA: Infinity became aware. (B1, 129)

II. FROM THE INFINITE ONE DESIRING TO EXPERIENCE ITSELF ARISES THE CREATOR

A. THE CREATOR CREATES (OUTER) SPACE

RA: As the Creator decides to experience Itself It generates into that plenum (nothingness that has the potential for being) full of the glory and the power of the One Infinite Creator which is manifest to your perceptions as space or outer space. (B4, 65)

B. THE CREATOR DIVIDES INTO (OR CREATES) INDIVIDUALIZED PORTIONS OF ITSELF

RA: Step by step, the Creator becomes that which may know (or experience) Itself, and the portions of the Creator partake less purely in the power of the original word or thought. The creation itself is a form of consciousness which is unified.


SOURCE

David Wilcock provides excellent references to the Ra Material in an article of his I've linked to before entitled, "Law of One and 2012: The Facts!". There is also a recent radio show from July of this year (2007) that David discusses 2012 that he's placed a transcript for at his website.

You can also read these books/this material online in its complete form here. Also, here is a link to Carla's current website. Carla is very active, attending lectures/meetings, writing books, engaging in online interviews/chats/shows, and even keeping up her weblog.

As a humorous side note, it's funny that Carla mentions her troubles with Internet broadcasting,


However, we are very sad to find that our chat room failed for the second meeting in a row. This is unacceptable and I asked Romi to look into buying a private chat room for these modest webcasts, as we did last year. Steve E had assured us that this freeware did a good job, but it’s been a real loser and we want those few who tune in faithfully to the live webcast to be rewarded with hearing the session. Romi said, “I’m on it!”


SOURCE

Renato (TD) and myself are experiencing the same thing...Is it faulty electronics or blockers - you decide!! ahaha

Here is a link to the "Recent Updates" section at Carla's website. And finally, here is a link to the "Links Page" (I could follow those links for hours haha) at Carla's site. The Ra Material is extensive, and although very compelling evidence for the changes/shift occurring now, it is only one resource among many.

I want to also share another group talking about the shift/changes (almost missed the "f" in shift by accident ahah) and this is a group with a website called missionignition.net. They have an excellent newsletter (.pdf) that I just found. Here is some of what's inside the newsletter (from the index),


Summary Abstracts
State of the Vision and Our Situation
Introduction
Changing Planetary Environment
Breakdown of the Social Control Matrix
Perspectives of Near Future Patterns Held by People
Above & Below
Full-Stop
The Great Transformation
Important Background
Introduction
The Process
Will We Avoid Physical and Other Catastrophes?
Additional Comments on the Process
Free-will and Intervention:
Memory Alterations
How this May Relate to “End-Time” Ideas
A Simple Diagram
Possible Timing and Signs
Conclusion
The Final Embrace
Oneness and Transformation


SOURCE

Here are a couple of excerpts,


Humanity cannot continue to exist in its present state. The imbalances that exist at present lead to great destruction for humanity. As Gerald O’Donnell so beautifully writes in “The Final Embrace”, “the key is to stop, go within, and embrace Love over separation, intend to connect to your higher God-Self, and accept that the ones who may seem to not be ready yet are still all The One and should be forgiven for they "do not know what they are doing." (see page 21)

In this edition we include articles to help frame this period of turbulent changes for readers. It is good to be aware and concerned, and good to care about others, but not good to be caught up in the latest manipulations of public opinion.


SOURCE

Also, under the subheading, "Transformations",


Concerning changes to the human physical and energy bodies, we are describing a new process and its possibilities for the transformation of the human species. Concerning changes to the planetary body, there is the strong possibility of some significant earth change events mid-October and mid-December of this year.

Between now and roughly one year hence, many physical and social and structural problems will dramatically challenge humanity’s values and beliefs as well as any notions of what constitute normal physical life on earth. Concurrent with this and ongoing, expect to see a growing awareness of transformational processes that will challenge basic beliefs as well as notions about normalcy.


SOURCE

Mission Ignition also has a message board. That is where I found the link to the newsletter; from an entry dated Friday, October 12.

Whatever is happening, David Wilcock points out, is happening to our neighboring planets,


Here’s a brief summary of some initial data points from our exhaustive study, with over 100 mainstream / NASA scientific references:

Sun: Higher activity since 1940 than at any time in previous 11,000 years

Mercury: Unexpected polar ice discovered, along with a surprisingly strong intrinsic magnetic field … for a supposedly “dead” planet

Venus: 2500% increase in auroral brightness, and substantive global atmospheric changes in less than 30 years

Earth: Substantial and obvious world-wide weather and geophysical changes

Mars: “Global Warming,” huge storms, disappearance of polar icecaps

Jupiter: Massive internal warming, over 200% increase in brightness of surrounding plasma clouds

Saturn: Major decrease in rotational speed in only ~20 years, accompanied by surprising surge of X-rays from equator

Uranus: “Really big, big changes” in brightness, increased global cloud activity

Neptune: 40% increase in atmospheric brightness

Pluto: 300% increase in atmospheric pressure, even as Pluto drifts away from the Sun


SOURCE

This is an amazing time to be alive. We are seeing changes at every conceivable level, across the board. Today is not like any day you've ever experienced. Welcome aboard!! ahah

[edit on 17-10-2007 by OnTheDeck]



posted on Oct, 18 2007 @ 11:47 AM
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It is going to be a cloudy for the next couple of days where I am.

I have not had too much activity, since being here. Possibly being where I am is what I need to be doing.

A beater car came along for $800, insurance and registration $117/Mo. I hope it lasts for more than a week. I am betting it will. The circumstance behind that purchace tells me there is a plan in force.

In the old days, I would say it was God's plan. Now I need to re-think and consider it to be a plan, originated by a higher order of beings.

We are at the point in time that we have been brought to, by that higher order. Call it what you want, but we are not in charge of the outcome.

"If there are any of you who believe a specific Government or other worldly power to have any sway over the eventual outcome, it is time for you to give your head a great big shake."

"Life is planned, you were planned, this whole world and all that is herein, was planned. The only thing that was not planned is the opportunities given by free will choices."


So, with that thought, I will be looking for the "Gold" linning.

Hey, I was being encouraged to look for Gold. I thought they meant Gold Ore. I just flashed that the streets of heaven are paved with Gold.



posted on Oct, 18 2007 @ 07:54 PM
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I apologize if this was already said,but here's my question Is everything going to be alright around & after 2012 ?



posted on Oct, 18 2007 @ 10:55 PM
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Theres no such thing as "after 2012" atleast, thats what the Inca's think.
Lol, who knows, we shouldnt worry about the future, we should focus on the time at hand.

Although some are saying, 2012 will be "the year" per say, take your guess at what i meant on the little "the year" thing, i frankly dont even remember what i was refering to....

god im spaceing off like really bad, its been like that for a while, lol feels like im bloging or sumthin.



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