To John Lear-Existence of the Dulce Facility

As I’ve said in a couple of other posts in other threads, I’m new here and just beginning to “learn.” This thread about underground facilities got me thinking…

I’ve worked on an Air Force contract my entire life. In the 80’s I was working in electronic security, and we had to make a series of TDY trips to a base in the Midwest that was having a problem with their exterior security system generating a massive amount of false alarms. We were assured that the problem was due to the fact that the entire base, and most all of the land for miles and miles outside of the base, was laid on top of a massive underground cavern that transmitted natural disturbances from miles away like they were occurring right in the immediate area of the system.

This thread got me curious about just how big that cavern was, but when I found the map linked below of caverns in the USA, the area we were in doesn’t show any caverns anywhere around. Since geologists proved there was one underneath us, and our system proved something was very different about that area, I now wonder if it was a man-made facility, or a link to this underground network you are all talking about. I was in the eastern part of Arkansas.

www.burlingtonnews.net...

Originally posted by FlaBama
As I’ve said in a couple of other posts in other threads, I’m new here and just beginning to “learn.” This thread about underground facilities got me thinking…

I’ve worked on an Air Force contract my entire life. In the 80’s I was working in electronic security, and we had to make a series of TDY trips to a base in the Midwest that was having a problem with their exterior security system generating a massive amount of false alarms. We were assured that the problem was due to the fact that the entire base, and most all of the land for miles and miles outside of the base, was laid on top of a massive underground cavern that transmitted natural disturbances from miles away like they were occurring right in the immediate area of the system.

This thread got me curious about just how big that cavern was, but when I found the map linked below of caverns in the USA, the area we were in doesn’t show any caverns anywhere around. Since geologists proved there was one underneath us, and our system proved something was very different about that area, I now wonder if it was a man-made facility, or a link to this underground network you are all talking about. I was in the eastern part of Arkansas.

www.burlingtonnews.net...

That's really interesting!
What exactly were your systems saying about the area? like what kind of disturbances?
You're very believeable and would love to hear more, if theres anything else you can say.

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
where is ALANP`s " vent cluster " ? did he tell you , did you even ask ?

I didn't even know about the vent cluster until you mentioned it, I'll ask him.

Oh really ??

quote: Originally posted by ignorant_ape
but for now lets stick to the one verifiable peice of evidence in his claim :
the vent cluster . where is it ????????????????????


IGNORANT_APE! Nice to hear from you! I thought that the 15 seconds of fame I generously gave to you on the Geoge Noory show I would have received at least an acknowledgement if not an all out thank you. Its not like in the rest of your lifetime your name will ever reach 14 million people.

And don't try to use the excuse "I don't listen to that show John!" We all know that not only do you listen, particularly when I'm on, but you also probably take notes. I'll just assume the oversight is due to your usual bad manners.

But the reason I am posting to you here is that I am meeting with 2 persons involved in the Dulce story over the next few weeks. One claims to have some pictures. I look forward to these meetings but I doubt, even if I were able to produce a picture or co-ordinates of a vent cluster that they would be acceptable as proof that Dulce existed.

But its there.

funny how you responded yo my question

you have previously made condesending attacks on other people because you claimed they had not read the thread or asked a repeat question

do you even read your own posts ???????

Originally posted by ignorant_ape

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
where is ALANP`s " vent cluster " ? did he tell you , did you even ask ?

I didn't even know about the vent cluster until you mentioned it, I'll ask him.

Oh really ??

quote: Originally posted by ignorant_ape
but for now lets stick to the one verifiable peice of evidence in his claim :
the vent cluster . where is it ????????????????????


IGNORANT_APE! Nice to hear from you! I thought that the 15 seconds of fame I generously gave to you on the Geoge Noory show I would have received at least an acknowledgement if not an all out thank you. Its not like in the rest of your lifetime your name will ever reach 14 million people.

And don't try to use the excuse "I don't listen to that show John!" We all know that not only do you listen, particularly when I'm on, but you also probably take notes. I'll just assume the oversight is due to your usual bad manners.

But the reason I am posting to you here is that I am meeting with 2 persons involved in the Dulce story over the next few weeks. One claims to have some pictures. I look forward to these meetings but I doubt, even if I were able to produce a picture or co-ordinates of a vent cluster that they would be acceptable as proof that Dulce existed.

But its there.

funny how you responded yo my question

you have previously made condesending attacks on other people because you claimed they had not read the thread or asked a repeat question

do you even read your own posts ???????

WOW ignorant_ape you sure got me there!!! I must be drinking too much of my own grape juice.

So what about it? Do I get any thanks for making you famous on C2C?

Originally posted by johnlear
WOW ignorant_ape you sure got me there!!! I must be drinking too much of my own grape juice.

A typical reply from Mr. Lear, Master of Evasion of inconvenient questions! Followed by ...

So what about it? Do I get any thanks for making you famous on C2C?

... a fast change of subject. Hilarious

Regards
yf

Originally posted by T0byThat's really interesting!
What exactly were your systems saying about the area? like what kind of disturbances?
You're very believeable and would love to hear more, if theres anything else you can say.

Although technology has move way beyond the kind of sensors we were using in the 80's, the one is question still uses a technology I think I'd rather not get into (just in case it's still used in a few places). Interior security is easy because the environment is controlled and stable, but outside you have everything from animals, to weather to human activity to contend with.

Speaking in simple terms, if you had a certain type of sensor 20 feet off a bumpy road and a truck drove by bumping down the road you would expect the system to alarm. Move the sensor 100 feet away and the chance of a false alarm are just about zero. Now, move that sensor a half mile or away and the last thng you would expect is a false alarm, so when you get them in bunches from activity off in the distance, "something" is very different about the area you're in. The huge underground cavern was what we were told was transmitting the seismic disturbances over a long area, but as I stated, that map doesn't show a cavern in that area of the state we were in.

So my question still is, if there is no "official" cavern there, could there be a secret man-made cavern, or something underground on that base? Disturbancies MILES away did not go unnoticed by their security system.

WOW ignorant_ape you sure got me there!!! I must be drinking too much of my own grape juice.

So what about it? Do I get any thanks for making you famous on C2C?

Yeah, he did get you, anyone with a shred of intelligence will see that. No semantics, no change of subject, no obscuration. Cold, simple fact that you tripped over your own web of lies. If there was any doubt before, there is none now. You are a fraud, you perpetuate a myth that supports your own cult of personality, nothing more.

Good old Alan P hasn't posted didly squat since returning protesting his good name, we still await a secure web-site for pictures despite the fact that a six-year old could get one up and running in 24 hours. This thread, which should have been locked eight pages ago, should now be locked with a flag - how not to run a hoax on ATS. Only the truly gullible could possibly expect to get anything out of this thread.

Oh dear! You make SOOO much fuss about a simple lapse of memory by Mr Lear about his having previously used the phrase 'vent cluster'. If that is your standard of proof for all those accusations and insults you were waiting to hurl at him, then you can hardly claim to be objective and logical. If one is not Mr Infallible, one has to be Mr Cult Leader, is that it? Pathetic.

I think people are way too hard on him sometimes, some people deserve it and some don't. He hasn't done much to show me that he deserves it as of yet.
I think i'll respect anyone that openly gives their address out on ATS hehehe
I see people trying to put words in his mouth sometimes and he forcefully clears those up. He recieves alot of crap, and gives out alot of interesting posts.
Again, he takes crap from people yet still posts what he has to share.
Good enough in my books.

Originally posted by johnlear
Tim,

You are off topic. If you have questions for me they should be posted on the "Questions for John Lear" thread. Thanks.

Done!

Your Questions await you right HERE!

I did my part and moved them to the Correct thread. Your Turn John!

Tim

i predicted man, OMG!!! LOL!!1!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

A couple of days ago I received a e-mail from Norio Hayakawa. We're both in a news group and to my surprise he wrote again something about Dulce.
He has been back to Dulce in March 28 2007 and wrote to the group his impressions after the visit. Here is the text of the e-mail:

Dulce, New Mexico Revisited - Mysteries Still Remain!!

by Norio Hayakawa March 28, 2007

DULCE, NEW MEXICO - On Sunday, March 25, I finally arrived at Dulce,
New Mexico once again, after more than 17 years. It was a long drive
from Los Angeles but it was definitely a worthwhile trip. The last
time that I was at this "mysterious" little town was in March of 1990.

I will never forget that 1990 visit when I first brought a Japanese TV
crew, incredible as it may sound, to document an alleged existence of
an "underground U.S./alien joint bio-lab" which was rumored to exist
deep under the Archuleta Mesa, adjacent to Dulce. While interviewing
many Jicarilla Apache locals on the street at that visit, we were
inexplicably detained by the then Police Chief, Hoyt Velarde and kept
at his office for almost an hour and a half, during which time he had
meticulously taken down our personal info, i.e., our ID's, driver's
licence numbers and, in my case, even my Soc. Sec. number, if I recall
correctly. It was a shock to us then. We had asked him if we were
doing anything illegal by interviewing the people, the question to
which he never responded. I clearly remember that just before he
released us, he told us in a rather warning tone: "Don't you ever ask
any more questions regarding such a base. I have nothing to do with
it and I do not want to talk about it!" An enigmatic answer, indeed.
That was in March of 1990.

Now here I am once again, in Dulce. It brought me back lots of
memories of 1990. However, this time, as soon as I drove in to Dulce,
I immediately noticed that it had completely changed since 1990.
It seems to have grown quite a lot, not so much in terms of
population, but in terms of its physical appearance. There are now so
many new buildings, large and small and many modern local community
facilites - a brand new Middle School, a brand new High School, a
new Students' Athletic Complex, brand new Police and Maintenance
Center, a modern Emergency Medical Service facility, and on the south
side, a brand new Student's Residential Complex, and, of course, a
newly refurbished Best Western Hotel, all in the small community of
less than 3500 residents.
Yes, it has been many years, so it would seem natural for some growth
to take place. However, the question I began to think was where did
all the funds for all these developments come from? Certainly, not
just from revenue from natural resources (oil and gas) and a small
casino. And, especially, for such a tiny town?

When I interviewed the locals in 1990, I clearly remember that almost
every one of them had testified to us that in the late 70's and the
early 80's, they had frequently observed strange lights in the sky,
especially flying over and around, and even appearing to disappear
into the sides of the Mesa. They even testified to us that they also
frequently observed military helicopters over Dulce, along with
reports of cattle mutilations in the ranches nearby. Those were the
things we heard back then when we were in Dulce in 1990.

To my great surprise, sightings still seem to continue in and around
Dulce, even now!!
Even recent sightings of what many describe as "Bigfoot" along the
Navajo River is also a fairly new topic of conversation in Dulce now.

I was so fortunate this time to personally get to know a friendly
family who lives in the northwest area of the town. I had gotten to
know the husband while I was attending the UFO syposium in Aztec the
weekend before. During my three days of stay in Dulce this time, I
have obtained many new, fascinating sighting reports from many locals
again, particularly from the family that I just mentioned and their
relatives.

On my second day of stay in Dulce, this family invited me to their
residence for a great meal. They had also invited their relatives who
were willing to describe to me in detail many strange experiences they
have had and even are having now.
It was assuring to know that the family that I befriended were
immediate relatives of high officials of the Jicarilla Apache tribe.
The husband was a son of the former head of the Police Department (way
before Hoyt Velarde). His wife is an immediate family of the head of
the Jicarilla Apache tribal council. His sister-in-law has been a
Dulce Police dispatcher. For this reason, I will refrain from naming
any individuals to protect their privacy.

My friend's wife told me of a fairly recent incident whereby a huge,
silent delta-shaped dark object emitting extremely bright lights
slowly passed over a group of 50 to 75 (all their relatives) on a mesa
where they were celebrating a traditional Jicarilla Apache feast
called the "coming out" feast, a "puberty" celebration for young boys
and girls (similar to the Spanish quincenera celebration). The huge
object appeared after sundown, an hour or so after their traditional
meals had ended and after the shamans had completed their chantings
and dances. They were simply stunned to see the huge triangular
'craft' hovering only about 100 feet above the campground. The entire
area lit up like daylight. What was more amazing was that after a few
minutes of hovering over the area, it suddenly took off with a
tremendous gust of wind. Pots and pans were flying all over. Some of
the people were almost thrown off their vehicles. Fortunately, no one
was injured. Panic spread. The generators failed to re-start and all
battery-operated appliances malfunctioned, including the car radios.

Another recent incident they recounted was a daytime sighting of a
silver, saucer-shaped object at around 11 a.m., which hovered for 30
minutes right next to Hwy 537, not too far from the junction of U.S.
64, north of La Jara Lake.

One relative also recounted a recent, unforgettable sighting of a
huge, flying "triangle" near Hwy 537, near J-30 (Jicrailla Road, #30),
with some type of a "cloaking device" that almost appeared to have a
transparent body. The object was described to have been close to
half-a-mile in length!!

The biggest and most impressive sighting, however, took place in May
of 2004 when several families were celebrating together the feast on a
Jicarilla Apache campground, located at an area near J-33 and J-40,
right near the Continental Divide. Incredibly, it involved hundreds
(not just one or two objects) of brilliant objects in the night sky.
It literally filled up the entire sky, according to the testimony of
the former Dulce police dispatcher. There were close to 100 witnesses
to this incredible incident. Some even said that there were probably
close to several hundred objects in the night sky. They moved en
masse slowly from one end of the sky to the other. It was literally
an "armada" of UFOs (which exactly reminded me of the famous,
well-documented 1950 mass sightings of UFOs over Farmington, near the
Four Corners ara of New Mexico).
What was particularly fascinating about this sighting was that
everyone also saw a small fleet of military helicopters which seemed
to follow the objects. Again, car radios went dead all through the
sighting.

Continue..



[edit on 8-4-2007 by Telos]

An interesting point is that many of the appearances of UFOs seem to
coincide with various feasts taking place in the Jicarilla Apache
reservation. Were 'they' attracted to the Jicarilla feasts?

Last but not the least of the impressive Dulce sightings involved a Jicarilla Apache Forerst Service ranger who witnessed a 'craft' of some kind enter the east side of the Archuleta Mesa through several large rocks that appeared to open (almost like a door) and in went the craft into the side of the mesa. He excitedly reported this sighting live on his microphone while he was communicating on his radio with the Forest Service station across the south side of Dulce. The ranger was stationed at the top of the Archuleta Mesa in the look-out building next to the radio communications tower. This took place a few years after a big fire destroyed many of the trees on and around
the mesa. (What is still strange about the aftermath of the fire, which they say happened about 10 years ago, is the fact that all attempts for the re-forestation have so far failed on and around the Archuleta Mesa. They just don't seem to grow, for some strange reason or other.

What is my conclusion to all these recent sightings in Dulce? These were all first-hand eyewitnesses to the events. Without doubt, I cannot help but believe that they all saw what they described to have seen. Either that or they all believe in their minds that they really saw what they said they saw. There is no other explanation.

Lastly, while in Dulce, the son of the former head of the Dulce Police department took me to the site of Project Gasbuggy. Project Gasbuggy was a rather 'strange' 1967 government project which involved a large underground nuclear explosion (29 kilotons of TNT) deep inside the high plateau area 25 miles south of Dulce, allegedly to release natural gas from deep under the ground. It was a joint project with El Paso Natural Gas Company. Is it possible that the huge nuclear explosion had created, deep, huge underground extensive caverns all over the area along with extensive natural "tunnels"?

What this has to do with the ongoing sightings of not only "UFOs" but also alleged sightings of "entities" (including fairly recent sightings of alleged 'Bigfoot' along the Navajo River near Dulce) I haven't the faintest idea. We may not necessarily be talking about purely physical phenomena but somehow intertwined with it could be some form of mass psychological phenomenon or even some form of yet unknown "interdimensional" occurrances. It's anyone's guess.

But, of course, we cannot rule out any prosaic answers. One theory is that the town of Dulce is benefitting financially by allegedly covering up the dumping of nuclear waste materials (from Los Alamos and elsewhere) into the underground cavities under Dulce and its neighboring areas and have created the entire Dulce "underground base" story as a cover story!

Whatever the case may be, it is simply fascinating!! And it is still ongoing in the "mysterious" town of Dulce, New Mexico!!

Here is Norio files.abovetopsecret.com...\s.jpg









[edit on 8-4-2007 by Telos]

Telos

Thank you for that, it was very interesting indeed. I like the fact he also keeps an open mind on all possible answers.

Originally posted by shadow fax

Originally posted by Ghost01

Originally posted by Staafke
The only thing I saw was a big John Lear-show...

Staafke

Don't feel bad, you're not alone!

Tim

well actually, pretty much 75% of JL's posts were replies to your endless "but but but" questions.

iAGREE. very annoying behaviour imho, hope you're not offended by that Tim.

Very early on in this thread I put Tim on ignore............its like he is obsessed with being all high and mighty in the manner he uses language that concurs with this attitude......the attitude problem in his line of questioning bothers me.....


people..................sheeesh

John CLEARLY stated in this thread that AlanP has NO PROOF and AlanP himself said he saw vents, and he knew Dulce exsited from his many years working in the area..........This does not make this thread 'The John Lear Show'...far from it. He shows alot of patience in attempting to answer the questions tossed at him.
John then CLEARLY stated that from his personal discussion with AlanP the only information he had would be relevent to people who allready believe Duce exists. This means that AlanP's information would be of no interest to people who do not allready think Dulce is actually there....so obviously the information has no 'proof' or no 'pics'.

posted by ArtemisFowl

sorry but lost people wont believe you unless you at least show a picture you must understand nobody will believe you unless you have full proof like the john titor thread they showed pictures interviews and some other stuff and half of ats believed that he was indeed from the future its very good to show photo evidence of your encounter

Atemis if your useing the GIANT HOAX of the John Titor threads.......as WHY one needs to post a photo to PROOVE the truth of the matter, I just need to take a few deep breaths.................. SURE he had photos and SURE half of ATS believed him but it was A HOAX pure and simple. Stating that to proove the truth of a claim you must have pics like John Titor did makes me laugh...............it was a hoax.
Now......Dulce may be more real than John Titor ever was, solely based on what people from the area (actuall eye witnesses) are saying they have seen.
Let me point out that John Titor did NOT have numerous eye witnesses despite the fact that he had pictures...........

Did anybody else besides me notice that this sites pic www.jamescasbolt.com... supposedly from Dulce was the SAME pic used in the John Titor spew?? its a pic farther back on the pages and says 'time travel equipment' lolerz.......



Telos....Norio Hayakawa is also a 'conspiracy master' on ATS and he posted that very information himself not long ago...........cool that your trying to share all the info you can, but that is already on the ATS boards FYI........


[edit on 25-4-2007 by theRiverGoddess]
massive edits due to post looking skeeeewompus
(I am learning to work with the draft portion of posting)

[edit on 25-4-2007 by theRiverGoddess]

Originally posted by theRiverGoddess
Did anybody else besides me notice that this sites pic www.jamescasbolt.com... supposedly from Dulce was the SAME pic used in the John Titor spew?? its a pic farther back on the pages and says 'time travel equipment'

Less than 24 hours after that post the pictures are deleted. Did the link actually point to pictures when posted? In other words, did someone visit the link and see pics? It seems odd that the pics would be removed on that website unless something is amiss with it all.

Originally posted by FlaBama
Since geologists proved there was one underneath us, and our system proved something was very different about that area, I now wonder if it was a man-made facility, or a link to this underground network you are all talking about. I was in the eastern part of Arkansas.

Hey FlaBama welcome,
About this quote on geologists have you any information on them? What company/research institutes they worked for atall? Can you reveal ANY information about your work? Feel free to pm me.

cheers,
sip

Also I thought John apparently met Bob Lazar after Bob started working at S4 etc..

I met Bob in the summer of 1988 with Gene Huff. Beginning in November 1988 after he called Dr. Teller for a job he had 3 security interivews. The first question on the second interview was "Do you know John Lear'. During the same month 3 friends of Bob's who still worked at LANL were given an 'unscheduled security interview'. The questions were whether ot not they knew John Lear or had talked to him. Bob was hired to work at S-4 in December. His first trip to S-4 was on December 6, 1988.

hello John,

sorry if this was already answered...but I am assuming then Bob just lied when asked if he knew you?

Yeah think about it, Dulce looks horrible, are there any "good space aliens," who are ahead of these buzzards who would lift a finger to rescue people?

It appears that "space aliens," in general get bad press since after Close Encounters of the Third kind. Dulce appears to be the bad spot, with the alleged fire fight and stories. All this talk about subterranean levels reminds me of the Andromeda Strain movie, except it involves something different than quarantine.

In the catalog of alien species and civilizations are there any philosophers at all, anything approaching friendship, even love? Are the good guys, if there are any, perpetually connected to some "non-interference directive?"

If our folkways are any indicator, one would think the space aliens all have a bad stomach problem, and act like over trained security guards or worse, as if they trained Dr. Josef Mengele.

Please is there any hint that even one world of space aliens is morally observant, and actually has any ounce of decency? If so are they also "renegade enough," to kick some reptile caboose?

Maybe we get a clue from the California UFO story that was documented by Timothy Good in Above Top Secret. Especially interesting were the space aliens who resembled us, but didn't use money. Upon debriefing the abductee was admonished by the military, I mean above and beyond everything else, to say nothing about that wonderland absent money entanglement. You mean no discussion about an actual free people who begin working at something at an early age and are not used, spit out and washed up by money?

Hopefully there are other species who can do even better.

[edit on 29-4-2007 by SkipShipman]

Originally posted by rocksolid

hello John, sorry if this was already answered...but I am assuming then Bob just lied when asked if he knew you?

According to Bob this is the way the interview went:

Q: "Do you know John Lear?"

B.L. "Yes."

Q: "What do you think about him."

B.L. "I think he sticks his nose in places it doesn't belong."

When Bob told me this story a few weeks after it happened he told me, "What I didn't tell them was I also like to stick my nose in places it doesn't belong."

The fact is they knew he knew me and thats why some think that it was intentional that Bob was told all that stuff so he would leak it to me.

The question for most be: Well, was it all true or not?

My answer is yes, I think it was all true. But that doesn't mean it was.