To John Lear-Existence of the Dulce Facility

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
this thread is a poster child for the phenonemon i term " the cult of john lear "

if you have " faith " it all makes " sense " , but there is no evidence for the skeptic or appostate to critically examine

Funny that you say this! What might intrest you is a statement From Black Word Researcher, and Avaiton Photojournalist Mark Farmer, who works with Author Bill Sweetman:

A lot of the Area 51 related UFO tales began in the mid 1980's with a man named John Lear. He would seem credible in a lot of ways: He's the son of the Learjet developer, and a former Air Force pilot.

Remind you of Anyone?

U2U John and ask him how his dad is doing!

John had made a name for himself in the world of UFO and Avation Research. His wild UFO stories are legondary in Nevada. Many of these stories sounds good until you examin the facts. The problem is too few people examin the evidence for themselves.

Here are 2 good examlpes:

The Lazar story- Really, what are the odds of a Scientist from Area 51 just happening to meet up with a famous UFO fanatic and deciding that this is one of the few people in the world he trusts enough to share details of a Top Secret Project with? Has anyone ever taken a serious look at this question?

When the DSS reviews security clearances, one of the first things they look into is who you socialize with. Don't you think being friends with a famous UFO entusiest would have raised some questions about Bob at his work?

Then there's John's CLAIM that he was CIA. For EX-CIA, John's aweful eager to talk about secret stuff in front of the world, even giving interview. He freely talks about flying for them.

I have some close, long-time friends who work at NSA (won't mention any names for their protection). To this day, not one will say what they do.

The problem here is that John's credentials don't hold up under closer examination.

I'm not out to put John down on a personal level. All I'm saying is the Facts Don't fit any of his claims.

Tim

P.S.: If you Look up thelivingmoon.com, you'll find that John Lear created that page. Ask yourself why John is using his own website as proof of his claims. (He put the info on that site) Strange, isn't it?

Heh, everyone is full of hope. Thats why its so hard not to get carried away, and/or want to ask a million difficult questions and/or have to answer those questions.
Most here value Mr.Lear, and everyone wants to see disclosure, on the same token, its also easy to see people wanting him to come out with more detailed information.
Even if Mr.Lear gave you everything, what would you do with the information? What would that lead to?
Remember, your all on the same side.

[edit on 16-3-2007 by jetflock]

hi - can GVDBA or anyone else posting evidence please give the precise co ordinates of every feature you state is evidence for the DULCE DUMB

preferably annoting a 1:24ooo topo map

here is a sample



from this map [ a 10meg download ]

there is the archive of downloadable maps for the entire state here

pick one

google earth , map quest and flashearth are all availiable too - and often have a simpler user interface

but if any one requires assistance - ping me , i do not bite - and can help with such matters

Originally posted by Ghost01

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
this thread is a poster child for the phenonemon i term " the cult of john lear "

if you have " faith " it all makes " sense " , but there is no evidence for the skeptic or appostate to critically examine

Funny that you say this! What might intrest you is a statement From Black Word Researcher, and Avaiton Photojournalist Mark Farmer, who works with Author Bill Sweetman:

A lot of the Area 51 related UFO tales began in the mid 1980's with a man named John Lear. He would seem credible in a lot of ways: He's the son of the Learjet developer, and a former Air Force pilot.

P.S.: If you Look up thelivingmoon.com, you'll find that John Lear created that page. Ask yourself why John is using his own website as proof of his claims. (He put the info on that site) Strange, isn't it?

So what are you saying Tim ?? is John Lear just a fake or are some things true... what about all his flying medals etc... Also I thought John apparently met Bob Lazar after Bob started working at S4 etc..

Tim please can you explain further on how you think John's credentials do not hold up this could be very interesting

Originally posted by Ghost01

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
this thread is a poster child for the phenonemon i term " the cult of john lear "

if you have " faith " it all makes " sense " , but there is no evidence for the skeptic or appostate to critically examine

Funny that you say this! What might intrest you is a statement From Black Word Researcher, and Avaiton Photojournalist Mark Farmer, who works with Author Bill Sweetman:

A lot of the Area 51 related UFO tales began in the mid 1980's with a man named John Lear. He would seem credible in a lot of ways: He's the son of the Learjet developer, and a former Air Force pilot.

Remind you of Anyone?

U2U John and ask him how his dad is doing!

John had made a name for himself in the world of UFO and Avation Research. His wild UFO stories are legondary in Nevada. Many of these stories sounds good until you examin the facts. The problem is too few people examin the evidence for themselves.

Here are 2 good examlpes:

The Lazar story- Really, what are the odds of a Scientist from Area 51 just happening to meet up with a famous UFO fanatic and deciding that this is one of the few people in the world he trusts enough to share details of a Top Secret Project with? Has anyone ever taken a serious look at this question?

When the DSS reviews security clearances, one of the first things they look into is who you socialize with. Don't you think being friends with a famous UFO entusiest would have raised some questions about Bob at his work?

Then there's John's CLAIM that he was CIA. For EX-CIA, John's aweful eager to talk about secret stuff in front of the world, even giving interview. He freely talks about flying for them.

I have some close, long-time friends who work at NSA (won't mention any names for their protection). To this day, not one will say what they do.

The problem here is that John's credentials don't hold up under closer examination.

I'm not out to put John down on a personal level. All I'm saying is the Facts Don't fit any of his claims.

Tim

P.S.: If you Look up thelivingmoon.com, you'll find that John Lear created that page. Ask yourself why John is using his own website as proof of his claims. (He put the info on that site) Strange, isn't it?

youre right, i was wrong. you are definitely not trying to debunk JLear.

Originally posted by g60kg
Tim please can you explain further on how you think John's credentials do not hold up this could be very interesting

Sure! I will show you a link to start with:

John Lear

For a man that claims to have worked for the CIA, John is much too open with things that are supposed to be secret. If this information were true, he would have gotten in trouble. Remeber the first Job of the security services in the intelligence community isn't to lie to the public, but to keep sensitive information away from enemy intelligence. John is too forthcomming with "secrets" to have done that kind of work, he would be in prision if he had been in the CIA.

Second, Anyone who is EX-CIA wouldn't go snooping around near places like Groom Lake, because they know how much trouble they would get in. Every person who has a security clearance has to sign a security agreement, and are bound by the terms of that contract for The REST of THEIR LIVES.

As I've said before, I have friends and some family that have done classified stuff for the government. every single one of them will tell you in a heartbeat that John and Bob are both much too open to have done that kind of work.

I have to leave for work, I'll continue later.

Tim

But there is always that one person who says "*snip* it!" and tells the story anyways. Sometimes there is that person who just wants to go out telling the truth to all who will listen.This does happen. Not everyone who has worked with the government stays silent.




Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 16-3-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

Originally posted by g60kg
? is John Lear just a fake or are some things true... what about all his flying medals etc...

I do not have any flying medals. I have a number of FAA certificates which were earned and can be verified at faa.gov.

I only have one medal and it is the The International Order of the Knights Grand Cross of the Star of Asia.

Also I thought John apparently met Bob Lazar after Bob started working at S4 etc..

I met Bob in the summer of 1988 with Gene Huff. Beginning in November 1988 after he called Dr. Teller for a job he had 3 security interivews. The first question on the second interview was "Do you know John Lear'. During the same month 3 friends of Bob's who still worked at LANL were given an 'unscheduled security interview'. The questions were whether ot not they knew John Lear or had talked to him. Bob was hired to work at S-4 in December. His first trip to S-4 was on December 6, 1988.

Tim please can you explain further on how you think John's credentials do not hold up this could be very interesting

Go for it, guys!

i dont know why so many people here asking for Johns credibility.
He is only interested in all this black-world top-secret stuff as all other
people here. He is a great pilot, he has a lot of contacts and also knows
much more about the whole stuff than many other people here.

Be happy to have him on ATS, otherwise visit other threads.
He only gives his opinions and shares his experiences with us.

Originally posted by johnlear

Originally posted by g60kg
? is John Lear just a fake or are some things true... what about all his flying medals etc...

I do not have any flying medals. I have a number of FAA certificates which were earned and can be verified at faa.gov.

I only have one medal and it is the The International Order of the Knights Grand Cross of the Star of Asia.

Also I thought John apparently met Bob Lazar after Bob started working at S4 etc..

I met Bob in the summer of 1988 with Gene Huff. Beginning in November 1988 after he called Dr. Teller for a job he had 3 security interivews. The first question on the second interview was "Do you know John Lear'. During the same month 3 friends of Bob's who still worked at LANL were given an 'unscheduled security interview'. The questions were whether ot not they knew John Lear or had talked to him. Bob was hired to work at S-4 in December. His first trip to S-4 was on December 6, 1988.

Tim please can you explain further on how you think John's credentials do not hold up this could be very interesting

In addition to the above I kept very accurate logbooks. Every single flight of my career except for 2 or 3 flights in a C-130 in Viet Nam (in which I was a passenger only) is logged and has the date, the registration of the airplane, the type of the airplane, were I departed and where I arrived, the flight number if any, the time of flight and about 10 other pieces of information. There is a remark section in which I always made comments on the flight after the flight was completed. There are 7 of these log books labeled 1 through 7, that cover from July 10, 1957 until June 30, 2002 and each log book contains hundreds of pages. There is also a record in the log book of every flight check I ever took (over 200) and every training class I took along with every simulator check ride I ever took, along with a page in which I list every aircraft I ever flew and every country I ever flew in.

Although I really don't care what any of you believe about me I will make these log books available to you, in my den, at 1414 N. Hollywood Blvd. Las Vegas, Nevada for your inspection. And, no, I don't intend to post these log pages.

I will also make available from my files paperwork to attest who I was working for and newspaper clippings I saved about what was being fed to the media about particular flights. I particularly like the ones I have when I was flying arms and ammunition to Somalia in 1977 from Budapest. There is one from the Saudi Gazette and one from the International Edition of the New York Herald Tribune.

I also don't mind your continued wild speculation about my career because I know you don't have the facts.

Go for it, guys!

Is this thread still about Dulce?

Anyway, as I havent the time right now to go back and read all the previous posts on this topic please forgive me if I am repeating something already known.

I recenly listened to an interview on Coast to Coast between George Noory and a half breed Medicine/ Wakian man called Red Elk. This man is extemely knowledgeable and everyone should listen to what he has to say. If you go to his web site Redelk.org there is some information about Dulce.

Oh and by the way I think Mr Lear was Captain of an American Trans Air flight I was on from London to New York in 1991. Not sure for certain as the only thing I remember was this gruff sounding Captain using some expletives because 2 passengers were late and when they showed up he asked us all to give them a big round of applause !! We refuelled in Gander which I remember was a God forsaken place.

[edit on 16-3-2007 by pippadee]

Originally posted by pippadee
Redelk.org

doesn't work for me

Originally posted by pippadee

Oh and by the way I think Mr Lear was Captain of an American Trans Air flight I was on from London to New York in 1991. Not sure for certain as the only thing I remember was this gruff sounding Captain using some expletives because 2 passengers were late and when they showed up he asked us all to give them a big round of applause !! We refuelled in Gander which I remember was a God forsaken place.

I was fired from ATA in July of 1989. But the rest of the story sounds accurate.

John : At one time or another you were definitely a high security risk for
some people. Have they threatened you? Recently?

If you're no longer a "player", do you still want to find "the facts",
or have you washed your hands of the whole thing and now just
sit back and laugh at some of the inquiries that pop up ?

Finding a credible source is not easy.

Originally posted by SIEGE
John : At one time or another you were definitely a high security risk for
some people. Have they threatened you? Recently?

Never, ever, threatened in any manner, shape or form.

If you're no longer a "player", do you still want to find "the facts",
or have you washed your hands of the whole thing and now just
sit back and laugh at some of the inquiries that pop up ?

I was never a player. I was always pawn. I never new the facts then and probably don't know them now. But I sure would like to find them out.

Finding a credible source is not easy.

They show up in the strangest places and at the strangest times.

John Lear sais he worked for the CIA. Does he have any proof?

Even Bob Lazar had a W-2. If you really worked for the CIA John, Let's see you Prove it!

I'll put you to the Test:

What does a REAL security badge look like, John?

After you answer, I'll tell you if you are right!

What did you fly for the CIA, what kind of aircraft? (I have a list of all the unclassified aircraft the CIA uses, let's see if it's there)

What is base level clearance for CIA?

Without Looking it up What years were you in the CIA and Who was the Director at that time? (Let's see if John remembers his top boss)

You say you were a pilot, under what Directorate do CIA pilots operate?

Ok John, here's your Golden Oppertunity, Let's see what you know about the Agency you claim to have worked for.

These question are all based on common knowlege. If John is telling the truth, these questions should be child's play for him!

Tim

Go for it, Lear!
I beeeelieveee innn youuuuuu. :*

Originally posted by Ghost01
John Lear sais he worked for the CIA. Does he have any proof?
Tim

Tim,

You are off topic. If you have questions for me they should be posted on the "Questions for John Lear" thread. Thanks.

where is ALANP`s " vent cluster " ? did he tell you , did you even ask ?

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
where is ALANP`s " vent cluster " ? did he tell you , did you even ask ?

I didn't even know about the vent cluster until you mentioned it, I'll ask him.