To John Lear-Existence of the Dulce Facility

I think my main problem with accepting the existence of a facility like Dulce (besides the lack of real evidence) is the domino effect it would have. If Dulce exists, then I must accept that EBEs and the US government have been coexisting and working together. I must accept that the Majestic-12 documents were authentic, even when all the 'expert analysis' papers I've read on the subject favor the "faked" conclusion.

Knowing Dulce exists means that I also know that thousands of people disappear from their homes each year under mysterious circumstances and are never seen again, as they are taken to alien bases where horrifying experiments are undertaken. Now, missing persons reports are commonplace, but not in the projected numbers by many supports of the Dulce "theory" I've read.

Because when it comes down to it, Dulce is no more than a theory. It's not even a real theory by scientific definition - There is no significant, tested evidence backing it up. John Lear (whom I greatly respect, and I believe that trying to declassify any government/extraterrestrial conspiracies that may exist deserves all the support it needs) has gotten his evidence for Dulce primarily from second hand accounts of people who worked there or somehow had contact with it.

If Johnny Doe walks up to me and tells me a fantastic story about how there is a secret base in his garage, complete with back-engineered UFOs and evil reptile aliens, but refuses to let me through the garage door, am I going to trust him?

Obviously I have never talked to any of John's sources or anyone who claimed to work in Dulce, but from all the information I have read about it, here and elsewhere, that seems to be the level of evidence given for the existence of Dulce.

Ignorance is blindly accepting what others say without questioning their sources or motives. I am not accusing anyone here of doing this. But to tell these tales of a journey to a remote desert where metal vents stick out of the ground like a cactus, then to provide ZERO evidence other than a post on a web forum - Surely you cannot accept that as actual proof that Dulce exists?

Originally posted by AlanP
I am sorry that i have not returned to this post for sometime ...I just wanted to tell the unbelievers that maybe you need to take a trip to New Mexico and find out for yourself if the Dulce Underground base really exists...I have nothing to prove to anyone on this site, The only person I respect is John Lear who I met recently in Vegas....so if you want to check out my credentials maybe you can call my former employer in Farmington New Mexico and find out what I did for the Jicarilla Apache Tribe....My question to any of you out there is how many of you critics have lived on a reservation? And lived in Northern New Mexico? You see I dont need to spend my time collaborating on a web sight to prove myself.
I am sure one of these days the truth will be known...just as I and John Lear have experienced.

sorry but most people wont believe you unless you at least show a picture you must understand nobody will believe you unless you have full proof like the john titor thread they showed pictures interviews and some other stuff and half of ats believed that he was indeed from the future its very good to show photo evidence of your encounter

Originally posted by Airyphyla

Originally posted by shadow fax
[
well actually, pretty much 75% of JL's posts were replies to your endless "but but but" questions.

why dont you start a thread for the sole purpose of you debunking John and keep it to that thread. your fascination with trying to prove him wrong is almost scary dude, lighten up.

iAGREE. very annoying behaviour imho, hope you're not offended by that Tim.

Of course NOT!

You have as much right to your oppinion as I have. If you wish to believe John Lear, that's very much your right.

All I'm doing is pointing out things that I see as obviously Wrong. I take no offense to your oppinion. However, if you choose to believe John, that's up to you!

Tim

Originally posted by shadow fax
why dont you start a thread for the sole purpose of you debunking John and keep it to that thread.

I'm pretty sure that starting a thread to attack the crediability of another ATS member is a violation of of the ATS Terms & Conditions.

Thanks anyway, but getting banned to prove a point isn't really what I have in mind!

Tim

Thank you AlanP and John Lear. I don't blame you for going away. Unfortunately, it seems to me if you were to say anything else, some of the members here would just rip you apart, so why bother. Thank you for attemping, some of us here do appreciate it. I wish you and your family all the best.

Originally posted by AlanP
I HAVE HEARD MANY STORIES FROM THE NATIVES AND WITNESSED SOME STRANGE ANOMALIES IN THE FOUR CORNERS...

AlanP,

I don't have a dog in this fight and have no opinion about Dulce yet. I find it very interesting and would like to know more about the stories you mentioned.

Please don't let these attacks discourage you from continuing and sharing these stories. I know it is hard to do but the best thing to do when you have a dog barking at the fence is ignore it. When their barking does no good they go away. I'm sure others here have been following and hoping you would share these stories. We are not obvious to you because we are not attacking you.

In this case, since you are a witness to this, you are part of the evidence. Some of us are sensible enough to realize you can't fly us all to Dulce and show us the evidence first hand. The more people like you that come forward, the more collective evidence there is. Eventually it becomes like the existence of UFO's in that there is so much evidence that it cannot be ignored any longer.

Regardless, thanks for trying,
Blaine91555

will people stop being such pathetically insecure neurotic cry babies ?

there are no " attacks " on ALANP or any one else in this thread

so please drop the victim act

ALANP made a simple claim on page one :

I have seen for myself on the archuleta mesa the ventilator shafts positioned in an octagon shape in the middle of winter hidden behind huge rocks.

he has been asked REPEATEDLY for the answe ro one simple question :

" where is it , exactly "

this charade has now spawned 11 pages - and still not attampt has been made to answer the fundamental question

why is that ?

we keep getting told that ALANP is a " sucessfull businessman " , and former car dealer

yet his reaction to even the most basic questions is more reminicient of a petulant toddler

and since then we have had nothing but deflection , evasion and apologetica

as john lear says he has met ALANP , why didnt he ask this cornerstone question ? or are we not worthy to know the answer

this thread is a poster child for the phenonemon i term " the cult of john lear "

if you have " faith " it all makes " sense " , but there is no evidence for the skeptic or appostate to critically examine

Originally posted by ignorant_ape
will people stop being such pathetically insecure neurotic cry babies ?

there are no " attacks " on ALANP or any one else in this thread

so please drop the victim act

ALANP made a simple claim on page one :

I have seen for myself on the archuleta mesa the ventilator shafts positioned in an octagon shape in the middle of winter hidden behind huge rocks.

he has been asked REPEATEDLY for the answe ro one simple question :

" where is it , exactly "

this charade has now spawned 11 pages - and still not attampt has been made to answer the fundamental question

why is that ?

I Agree with you totally Mr Ape simple questions should have simple answers but these simple questions just get avoided...and its not just from the new comer ALANP its from the oldies too like John Lear but on the other hand I can see how it might get frustrating trying to answer the same old questions and explain things over and over but this no excuse for ALANP, he is the one that came here then suddenly had a change of heart... I still reckon ALANP is infact John Lear

alanp, i understand what you are feeling; i feel the same way.

with regards to the absence of signs or trespassing warnings in the area: based on what we have seen while at the dulce base location, we believe the actual entrance into the base by the aircraft (or ebe's themselves) is via a dimensional passageway. sort of like a cloaking or wormhole method to go from one dimension to another, or from one entity to another. that's the only explanation my little brain can think of for what we have witnessed. as far as the actual physical components of the base that we have evidence of, i still can't explain how that relates to the dimensional access that we have witnessed.

fyi: my website is currently being designed to post the evidence i have of the dulce base.

gvdba

Originally posted by gvdba
alanp, i understand what you are feeling; i feel the same way.

with regards to the absence of signs or trespassing warnings in the area: based on what we have seen while at the dulce base location, we believe the actual entrance into the base by the aircraft (or ebe's themselves) is via a dimensional passageway. sort of like a cloaking or wormhole method to go from one dimension to another, or from one entity to another. that's the only explanation my little brain can think of for what we have witnessed. as far as the actual physical components of the base that we have evidence of, i still can't explain how that relates to the dimensional access that we have witnessed.

fyi: my website is currently being designed to post the evidence i have of the dulce base.

gvdba

what the hell was all that about?? inter dimensional blady bla bla.... honestly I think this forum is becoming too corrupted with all the crp that is going around why cant we just stick to the facts or the ongoing search for the facts if you have evidence post it otherwise stop ruining everyone else's time on here its pathetic!!!

Originally posted by g60kg

honestly I think this forum is becoming too corrupted with all the crp that is going around why cant we just stick to the facts or the ongoing search for the facts if you have evidence post it otherwise stop ruining everyone else's time on here its pathetic!!!

originally posted by g60kg I still reckon ALANP is infact John Lear

Why cant we just stick to the facts or the ongoing search for the facts if you have evidence post it otherwise stop ruining everyone else's time on here its pathetic!!!

Originally posted by johnlear

originally posted by g60kg I still reckon ALANP is infact John Lear

Why cant we just stick to the facts or the ongoing search for the facts if you have evidence post it otherwise stop ruining everyone else's time on here its pathetic!!!

I thought that would get a reaction out of you John anyway I was only teasing but on a more serious note why dont you release a book and pour into it all your knowledge and sources of information you have on everything from moon bases to DUMBs on earth and all the bits in between. That way people like me wouldnt have to ask you a billion questions, which often dont get answered in a complete form that was expected ?

It often seems when someone asks a question that I think "oh yes I cant wait for john to answer this one" your answer is often sarcastic or just plain awkward

[edit on 15-3-2007 by g60kg]

g60kg,

as john lear mentions, i (and other members) join this forum to promote discussion and seek the truth, not to elicit a rude response, such as the ones you have posted.

i'd appreciate it if you could contain your 'excitement' and view the pics when the website it up and running. i'm sure you won't be disappointed.

go ahead...ask a question, and i'll answer, just as i have done in the past. i'll be more than happy to answer any questions that are directed to me, based on my actual experiences w/the dulce base.

gvdba

At the risk of causing even more complaints on this thread I have decided to tell you the following:

There are some very, very interesting developments going on regarding Dulce. It may lead to proof that the alleged underground facility really exists. Its possible that within a month or 2 I will have some additional information and possibly photos to post. None of which, of course, will prove that Dulce exists but it will provide more tantalizing clues.

I won't bother to ask you not to bug me about who, what, when and where etc. because I know it won't do any good.

But my keyboard will be frozen on this particular subject until there are significant developments.

Originally posted by ignorant_ape

this thread is a poster child for the phenonemon i term " the cult of john lear "

Ignorant_ape it is with great pleasure that I inform you that you have been nominated for membership in "The Cult of John Lear (COJL)"

There are only 2 requirements:

1. State that you believe there is a breathable atmosphere on the moon
2. Drink a glass of grape juice to honor our home comet "The Big Bopper."

Our prayer:

(Spoken while drinking the grape juice)

Our Big Bopper
Which art in heaven
We look forward to joining you
In your galactic tour of the universe.

Amen.

Welcome ignorant_ape! It is our honor to have you join the Cult of John Lear.

You are a gentleman and a scholar! I have followed the entire thread, post for post, and have realized that we have some unbelievably rude people frequenting ATS Thank you for maintaining your composure and kind demeanor during these childish outbursts. Apparently some people find the anonymity of the internet an appropriate excuse for inappropriate behavior. As a long-time member, please accept my apologies.

I appreciate scepticism, healthy scepticism. It is what enables us, no, forces us to forge forward and find tangible evidence to lend credence to our beliefs and assertions. However, the bantering and ad hominems MUST stop if we are to continue our journey toward the truth together! Every thought, every idea - no matter how crazy or inconceivable it may appear to you - is possibly another strand in the web of truth. Please let everyone be heard and treat them with respect! I'd hate to see my beloves ATS sink into the moral cesspool that is beginning to develop around the world. PLEASE BE POLITE!!! Thank you!

John, I am eagerly awaiting your update. Hopefully we will have some new nuggets of information to digest. All the best in your quest!

Originally posted by gvdba
g60kg,

as john lear mentions, i (and other members) join this forum to promote discussion and seek the truth, not to elicit a rude response, such as the ones you have posted.

i'd appreciate it if you could contain your 'excitement' and view the pics when the website it up and running. i'm sure you won't be disappointed.

go ahead...ask a question, and i'll answer, just as i have done in the past. i'll be more than happy to answer any questions that are directed to me, based on my actual experiences w/the dulce base.

gvdba

First of all I would like to apologise for my rudeness... and now I would like to ask you my first question and will eagerly await you answer

here goes

question 1: please can you list exactly what photographs you will be posting on your website and how and when they came into your possession

thanking you in advance

KG

photographs include:

a ventilation shaft of some sort. it is peculiar because it is perfectly squared/cut out directly into the ground....up in the middle of nowhere. did not venture into this 'shaft'.

pictures of aircraft flying into the base.

cattle mutilations that have occured in the immediate area

pictures of where an aircraft supposedly crashed into the mountain side. evident by the burnt/broken trees that all fell in line w/each other, i guess you could also say the flight path. these were tall, mature trees that were all cut off or snapped right in half about the same height, and have burn marks when they were broken off. the trees have not grown back to a healthy state. this supposed 'accident area' is in the same exact flight line where we have observed aircraft flying, possibly into the base or from going from one dimension to another.

pictures of a us-army issued pen, that was found right beneath one of the broken trees.

pictures of the vegetation that shows old or existing oak shrubs and brand new small oak shrubs...in the exact location where Bennewitz has claimed that an aircraft crashed into the mountainside.

numerous pictures that show strange black objects in the sky. these cannot or are never seen w/the naked eye, but always show up on the pictures that we have taken of the dulce base area.

pictures of covert or unmarked military helicopters in the immediate area. possibly from delta force out of fort carson, co. (just a guess)

pictures of other UFO's in the immediate/Dulce area

forgot to answer the other part of your question on how they came into my possession: we took the pictures ourselves and have personallywitnessed the aircraft in this location. other pics are from my source, whom i am speaking on behalf of.

Originally posted by gvdba
photographs include:

a ventilation shaft of some sort. it is peculiar because it is perfectly squared/cut out directly into the ground....up in the middle of nowhere. did not venture into this 'shaft'.

Thanks for your response gvdba

Id like to ask you some more questions if that is ok

1, when did you discover the shaft
2, dimensions of the shaft
3, what did the base look like when you saw the aircraft entering it
4, what aircraft entered the base
5, how far were you when you witnessed this
6, how long have you been doing these little missions

thanks

KG