New Zealand Stone Circle banned - any info?

Interesting, Wylie.

Over a decade ago I was working in a labouring gang. One of the guys was from Black Power and he told us that he used to smuggle guns up and down the country. At the time I just thought he was full of bravado, but on further thought, it is entirely possible.

As far as gun smuggling goes, would the name Ross Meurant ring any bells?

...and, is there any credence to the story that before the NZ Peacekeepers arrived in Bosnia the Muslims were underarmed and then 'suddenly' had quite large caches?

I know this is sort of getting off topic, but it is part of a 'general New Zealand' conspiracy

Yes i remember the name Ross Meurant but cant think of what he was involved in off hand other than the Cops i think.
I was in the former Yugoslavia in 89/90 but not with the NZ forces. Very nice country just a pitty it got so shot up as it was well the equivalent to the Riviera in some places along the coast.

Aoraki

The quote you attribute to Roger Duff, the then Curator of Canterbury Museum, Duff said: "We know about them and we don't want to" actually speaks volumes.

Officialdom just want the possibility or pre Maori habitation to go away as thats the official state line "Deny at all costs for national security and stability".
There are many eye witness accounts of the finding of many skeletons with non maori features and other artifacts as well as Maori of the 1800s own statements as to who was here and how Maori lived and what they engaged in, what and how they did things etc. In society reports and books and news paper articles from the mid 1800s to the mid 1980s. Most are now out of print but they do still turn up if you look. Some have been found on the net but be warned as i was advised by the ex agent i met at motat, once officialdom realize any govt site has info pointing in that direction on it, it will soon dissappear, so copy it to your computer as you find it.
Its a common falacy that there is no evidednce ever found. Thats what the boffins of state want you to think but its been found all right but locked well out of view or re interned on marae, and some has been deliberately destroyed or covered over. Unfortunately many of the "Finders" are long dead, but have relayed the stories to family etc and of course found its way into publications as above. That's precisely why more and more new finds are not being declared to the authorities but kept secret within the teams researching them until investigation can be done.
Do you realize govt policy is that any human remains deemed "Ancient" are automatically considered the property of the local iwi and no DNA or CD testing can be carried out without their consent whether it had european or Maori skeletal features. The only reason the recent woman's skull slipped through the net was because the guy requesting the tests was a coroner which carried enough weight for the gate to open, and the attempts at damage control was telling if not hilarious, watching boffins from govt funded Archives NZ and NZ Geographic etc explain away the existence of the "One that got out of the penn".
Of course most archeologists don't talk about the subject as apart from the fact many younger ones just don't know of it, (Lets face it a Govt trying to keep a lid on it is not about to let a university its funding offer courses in the subject) those that do, know, also know that its too sensitive a hot potato that could cost their job at the inevitably govt funded university, lab or whatever organization. All of which have such entrenched Maorification of policy and must think of the Treaty in every thing they think feel or do (Oh we are so sensitive and understanding i go to work with the warm fuzzies) that must not be questioned for fear of being branded a heretical racist and burned on the sabbath. And who funds Most archeological research, you guessed it - Government.
And just remember there is one more thing this far down the track that Government will wish to hide apart from the truth regarding pre Maori habitation, and that is the fact they have been complicit in its cover-up and governments won't like looking bad by being caught out perpetrating such a con, plus admit that all this time it was just too gutless and weak to stand up to the militant threats of the radical fringe so it must continue the charade.

Originally posted by wyliecelt
Aoraki

The quote you attribute to Roger Duff, the then Curator of Canterbury Museum, Duff said: "We know about them and we don't want to" actually speaks volumes.

Yes, that's why I included it.
I will reiterate that it is hearsay, but for me it is from a trusted source.

There used to be a really interesting discussion forum a few years ago (NZ History) or something, but it has been taken down and replaced by a 'toe the line' forum.

Man, I wish I'd had the presence of mind to copy down some of the information. There certainly seem to be a lot of people who 'know' about these things, and there were a couple of Kaumatua who posted really interesting information.

...Apparently Dover Samuels knows a thing or two as well!

I contacted DOC Northland regarding any information they had regarding the Waipoua Forest archaeological sites. They sent me Michael Taylor and Annetta Sutton's "Waipoua Archaeological Project stages I and II Management and Research undertaken during 1985-87".
It is decidedly underwhelming regarding any details other than saying:'pit' or 'terrace' or 'stone heaps', 'stone facings' , 'stone channels', 'stone structures' etc, but there are no dates attached.

There are, however, a couple of maps supplied. this is a start.

They also provided me with the contact details for Michael Taylor so my next move will be to contact him regarding his research into this area.

I love my job in Tertiary education as it helps open doors that might otherwise be difficult to access.

Let's see what happens!

You probably wont get much out of Taylor after all he is the guy that signed the document to keep the carbon dating data secret for 90 or so years. He will definitely follow the govt line like all in their employ or dependent on their funding.

reply to post by Dock6


Thank you headhurts and dock6 for this info. This confirmed my suspicions that there were celtic occupants in that region in pre deluvian times as these images of the earths surface will demonstrate. The islands of New Zealand used to be apart of a greater continent that looks more and more likely to have been a celtic country. I have seen this celtic character, traced below on the right, in parts of Australia taking up smaller areas of coarse. Its appears he was also a race car driver going by other images that I have of him and the other character is his rival neighbour. I wondered whether he was celtic or greek/roman. This bit of evidence sways me more towards celtic now.

Thanks again
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c20a17549a64.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/071b35af25df.jpg[/atsimg]

As a kiwi, I was taught that the Morioris were here first.

Then the Maoris arrived and killed most of them - they (the Morioris) then fled to the Chatham Islands. I believe that the Maoris came from the Pacific islands. But an interesting thing is that some Maori words are similar to Greek.

I believe that the first ship bearing Europeans was about 1845.

Also, there are red-haired Maori.

reply to post by spellbound



Hmm, please elaborate on these "red-haired" Maori? I've never ever in my entire life heard/seen any Maori with red hair, even in the history books :|

Edit:Quickly google "Maori with red hair" you'll come up with a few sources that indicate that the red hair aren't the Maori ;|

Also, the bone structures found near the burl sites are apparentally different bone structure to the Maori :|

Maori calls a man with red hair pawhero FYI

[edit on 13-7-2009 by allsop]

Originally posted by aorAki
I contacted DOC Northland regarding any information they had regarding the Waipoua Forest archaeological sites. They sent me Michael Taylor and Annetta Sutton's "Waipoua Archaeological Project stages I and II Management and Research undertaken during 1985-87".
It is decidedly underwhelming regarding any details other than saying:'pit' or 'terrace' or 'stone heaps', 'stone facings' , 'stone channels', 'stone structures' etc, but there are no dates attached.

There are, however, a couple of maps supplied. this is a start.

They also provided me with the contact details for Michael Taylor so my next move will be to contact him regarding his research into this area.

I love my job in Tertiary education as it helps open doors that might otherwise be difficult to access.

Let's see what happens!

hahaha, awesome!

[edit on 13-7-2009 by allsop]

A very interesting site on research on the "Lapita" people who populated the Pacific before the present polynesians and melanesians etc. These people made pottery which the later inhabitants did not, and this pottery has been found in NZ too. But that is not the only similarity to the NZ situation. As you will read the in depth research and archeological evidence is also being ignored by the archeology establishment as it is here.

www.users.on.net...

Yet more evidence that there were people of non Polynesian ethnicity in the south and wider pacific long before those the establishment will accept. Well worth a read.

I was a Territorial Solider (d771791) One of my posting was as a clerk (about as low as it gets) for artillery intelligence 3Fld HQ's. I served on about handful exercises, as a arty int clerk, plus attachments to Force Intelligence on counterintelligence exercises including operation Ivanhoe.

The title "Defence analyst" which appears on the cover of state secrets is what they call in the publishing trade "a beat up" courtesy of my publisher Ian Wishart who later blantly made up the quote regarding my view on the AIF (who I rate as a non threat). One of the reasons I no longer work with mssr Wishart.

This withstanding the claims made by CASPER in 1999 concerning Tuhoe terrorists and arms stocik piles dealt with a deeper issue how largely right wing types were manipulating activists. NOTE of the dozen plus source spoke to I always asked one major question concerning alleged weapon stock piles "Did you see ammo stock piles" The answer was always unequivicolly NO. Kind of hard to fight a guerilla war without bullets.

In side the cover of State Secrets I never make my self out to be some kind of 007 what I do is recall a phase in my life who I worked with what I got to see and how it compared against other sources out side my 'army life' (imagine private Benjamin and your not to far off). IN State Secrets I took those finding and I ran then past on the record (named) sources including

Academia Dr Greg Newbold Canterbury University Expert on Gangs

Army: Former Les gee Army Intelligence Corpral (who however as reg force served in several position usally manged by mid ranking officers Lt -Majors) -- who conducted his own investigation into arms.

NZ Customs Intelligence John Anderson Christchurch Custom.

NZ Police Commisioner Peter Doone.

Their findings my findings matched their own int

Most of the finding of the 1999 State Secrets concerning organised crime child prostituion -- arms in the Pacific -- the state of play in Fiji Solomons can be largely confirmed from what s now public record in 2009.

One update according to what I consider a very reliable source the actual terrorists (the one holding the guns) were in fact members of the now defunct Ranger unit -- largely grunts from Delta company (their Rangers title lasted about a nano second largely due the fact that the troops got big heads of their SF staus and subsquently got into one many to scrap). Before going to print I ran those allegations past the same sources and these sources never mentioned the Rangers role in the exercise. In hindsight there seems to have been a semi conscious effort to keep the army contigent within the ROGUES low profile. However the particpation of the gangs in this exercise as a reality I note in the foot notes is confimed by NZ Geography and NZ maori magzine Mana.

The terms rogue also appears in declassified report by Foster on Sullivan that predate Golden Fleece which uses exactly the same wording to describe the gangs terroist connections as Racially Orientated Groups of Unemployed. This also in the archives as well as in Toby Truell Welllington Confidental (Turnbull Libabries).

State Secrets II follows up on the NZ links to arms and terrorism and money laundering particpation in the merc trade and in this book I endeavour to put in as much doumentation as possibable to support my claims including photos of known arms trafficking aircraft (for example Antanov UR82008) at NZ airports. Parties that brought SS2 include the NZ Parliamentary Services -- NZ Embassy of Bejhing.

PS My degree was in political science/ history I wrote while at university aprox half million words on subject of terroism directly including 30,000 disertation into history of Middle East and Western Europe Terrorists groups for which I recieved an A courtesy Dr Ian Cooke History Department.


Yours Ben Vidgen DEADLINE Publishing [email protected]

PPS scuse the typso your dsylexically

Cheers for that Ben, me ol' flower, and welcome aboard!

Is there any truth behind the rumours that Ross Meurant was involved in arms smuggling?

[edit on 15-9-2009 by aorAki]

Meurant put in the tender for ex NZ army weapons, in 1995, the tender was made on parliamentary letter head and submitted prior to the tender process being made public. So Yes he certainly was involved in weapons trade.

According to a phone interview with researcher Owen Wilkes the weapons in question ended up in Yugoslavia. The tender was in fact won by Dince weapons (later caught supplying guns to UK crims) and a US outfit Century Arms.

Century had dubious deals in the circa 1999 supply of arms to Solomon Islands the weapons sitting on NZ wharf for some time. Australia was in fact only notified on the weapons existence about the same time the weapons left NZ waters. Sadly no attempt was ever made MFAT (NZ's equivalent of state Department) to track the serial numbers on weapons when "ethnic" (read timber) dispute blew up in 2000 and the police armory was broken into.

TV coverage however showed a number of assault weapons not matching police issue on the island at the time of the incident. All of this happened shortly before Meurant went to work for Simunovich Fisheries (Croatians) where he worked out their offices while also on the pay roll for Winston Peters 'inquiry' into corruption/ organised crime ties to NZ fishing.

Prior to that he worked for Prok Bank 70 Symonds St Auckland -- Prok was dodgey Russian tax haven run by a former KGB colonel. Prok was involved in several dubious deals including questionable ownership of timber deals in Solomons and fishing vessels including MV Orlvka and MV Osha tied up Dunedin & Lyttleton for some time [full detail are in Maritime records]

Customs also suspected Prok of arms trafficking this however was never proved though several of their can be linked to Russian mafia in Nahodka. This includes the son of a well known industrialist (involved in timber and metals) who was arrested in NZ after shooting out a follow Russian knees.

Meurant is now in Prague where he is working for the same Russians. .

One update on Prok is they turn out to part of a precious metal consortium involving about 10% Russians and Europeans including merchant bankers Sir Michael Fay and David Rich-white and 90% China.

SMF & DRW it seems developed a rather fascination for Russia, about the times that Renaissance (Stephen Jennings - Taranaki ) started carrying suitcases of cash into Russia.

Prok's neighbors on Symond St was 70 Symonds St the offices of Paul Mcelwee (laywer to John Victor Evans Gang of 20 NZ first white collar crime case) and Aussie Malcolm former Minister of Immigration whose clients included Harbey Misbin.

Misbin appeared in NZ 87 after skipping subpoena for trafficking 45,000, 000 in coc aine, This however proved no prob and Misbin was soon in business with aviation venture Southern World Transport. When Rod Vaughan TVNZ crashed that party the staff of Southern World went to work for Simon Spitz a Ukrainian Israeli.

There is not one shred of doubt that Spitz was trafficking weapons thru NZ into Africa/Somalia) around the time he was under contract for CARE Australia and the NZ Defence Department. When Spit left NZ he became paymaster for arms dealers operating out UK Netherlands part of the notorious Victor Bout (Lord of War inspiration) syndicate.

Of the six or so air craft (including my fav ur 82008) that have been tracked coming into NZ under contract to the NZ Defence Department using the same data bases used to bust open the CIA rendition flights every single one of these plans by their serial numbers can be identified as serial offenders involved in the arms smuggling industry.

I will conclude by saying what I love about these military types who say "Vidgen's full of #" is they never deal with specifics and they never address such questions; as if nothing dodgey then why is their vetting (as in checking out the back grounds of the airlines/aircraft they contract) so #.

Incompetence corruption not much of a choice really.

Yours ever dyslexic Ben Vidgen

Cheers for that Ben,

I have seen those Russian ships in Lytellton when having a nice cold beer on the deck of the Wundabar. Beautiful place for contemplation of events

We are quite a dirty wee country eh? A few skeletons in the closet!

Sounds interesting, the way information is always so hard to find is just SAD IT WOULD BE NICE TO KNOW OF THIS SPECIES (makes it easier to see all EARTH VISITING FAMILIES) guess we gotta what again.

Most interesting Ben,

I had your first book but not your second, i should get it. The first i loaned out and never saw again. so really i should get both.
I can concur (by way of the chatter we heard whilst in the army) with much of what you say but just as much is new and very interesting to me. Disappointing to hear about Wisharts poetic licence i had a reasonable amount of respect for his work. Did you ever hear or make any inquirey into the pre maori civilisation subject? I knew of the arms and maoris back in the day but nothing of the pre maori civilisation back in my army days. but the Ex SIS agent i ran into did say that the cover-up did exist at the time. do you remember hearing anything along those lines when talking shop with the lads over a beer. Also you may be able to shed more light on (or even dispel) the points i covered in earlier posts re reasons for any coverup.

cheers

reply to post by allsop


Sorry, it was the Moriori who had red hair, not the Maori.

The Moriori were apparently fair-skinned and some were red-headed.

It is the same old story of people taking over countries and killing or enslaving the original people.

I have to say that no, the Maori were apparently not the original people of New Zealand and, as such, they should have no more rights than following conquerors.

In which case, they have far too many rights.

So, New Zealanders who are interested should demand the truth (if that is even possible) about the stone circle.

The government is running away and hiding because of Maori claims to be the first inhabitants - that is obviously not true, and I would really like to know the truth.

Originally posted by spellbound


In which case, they have far too many rights.

I'm not so sure. I don't feel like I have any less rights than anybody else...at least in practice...could you elaborate?...also...who was here earlier and where is the hard evidence?...

go on...I'm interested.

Thanks Wylie Celt

In answer to your question

Yes a number of items on Northland sites appeared in Northern Advocate circa peroid Doute Book on the subject relating to DOC handling of alleged premaori sites and their classifcation of dig notes -- most of it is mentioned here.

At time what I noted was fact wen forced by ombudsman to reless dig notes the notes were split in three and sent to three seperate archives -- highly unusal. Also the handwritten notes which had the ageing dates was now missing.

A number of books with varying research appear on this subject in Libabries but be quick controversial books have habit of walking out of libaries and archives.

Other tidbits include archival work by early zoologists (give me week or two and I will track names down) that suggest a couple of mamals existed in NZ that should not have been here and were unlikley to have been brought in by Polynesian tribes -- obvious conclusion they were brought by others. There are also issues that improvement in dna testing and carbon dating should solve a lot of debates but so far no one in mainstream academia is rushing off to have the tests done.

My mother Jenny Vidgen also has done some work prior to this making comparisons of some early Maori tribes art as South American and believes artwok of indigenous tribes on Chatham shows a variety of cultures passing thru the Pacific pre Maori Eurpoean. I personally subscribe to this view and believe that for centuries maritime flotsom and jetsome has ended up in NZ.

The question is why the "cover up" I dont believe that there is in fact one perse in the sense the issue is after all been discussed and debated here (and may I ad both sides are putting some pretty impressive arguments up for review).

Legally --- though law is not my expertise -- pre maori civilisations should have no impact on treaty claims which are made between key tribes and the crown. Perhaps while issues of mana (or at less the red faceness of Maori having to fess up to the very human fact that 'surprise surprise there ancestors are every bit the bastards that most peoples ancestors tend to make this subject uncomfortable it hard to see what dif it make. Though to be devils advocate it might open up issue of what exactly is Maori and provide tribes like Waitaihai (apologies for spelling) open to have there claims acadmic recognised.

I once tested a lecture by handing in a hand writtten essay (and if you think my typing sucks u should see my handwriting) torn from exercise book marked with coffee stains. My bibliography consisted of only two books and I was 1000 words short. I have knew what the lecturer liked and repeated this -- I got a B+. A lot of people lives livilihoods is based on proving they are the smartest guys in the room (even if they only got there by repeating what their own acadmeic superiors said) challenge that and it does not matter how will argued your case is.

Whats more academic research is based on grants you do not get grants by arguing against common conventions -- read Arthur Kostlers The Call Girls it will cure you of any pretense that just becuause your smart your not capable of pettyness.

As for SIS maori gangs cover ups this is icy terrain my orignal source on this was Peter Maher. In my time head of Force Intelligence Group I spoke to him twice regarding this issue. Once on Ivan Hoe once prior to going to print. Maher never revealed that actcal triggermen on Goldne Fleece were not actcal gang members but (the now defunt) Army Rangers integrated into the exercise. Meurant likewise went on about "maori terrorists" but considering the man from Vela fishing own links to arms ....well words pot kettle balck come to mind.

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