Oh, that got your attention, did it? Well, good that’s what I was intending. This thread, this post and many more to follow are done with the intention of pissing you off. Am I suicidal, or trying to be a troublemaker? No to the first part of that question, and yes to the second. A troublemaker? Me? Well, a troublemaker yes, but not in the sense you are probably thinking. I am making this about you, so I understand if you take this personally at first, but I hope that you will have thought differently by the time you’re done reading what I have to say.

Before I go on, I am a white Christian male, I am not now, nor have I ever been affiliated with Muslim’s in any way, shape, or form. The reason I wrote the title of this was to intentionally piss you off and grab your attention. That may or may not have happened, but you’re here reading this and that’s all that matters. The problem is not with Muslim’s, it’s with you, you right there reading this who think that Muslim’s are the problem.

What is a Muslim? Do you know? Well, if you think all Muslim’s are a problem, that all Muslim’s are “terrorists”, and that all Muslim’s are evil and should be wiped off the face of the planet Earth, well this is for you and you’re 100% wrong if you think that way. If you think like I just described, then you are in fact my friend, a fool. You have been duped by ignorance and are blind to the truth. The Muslim religion, is just like Christianity, exactly like it in fact. What on Earth is these guys talking about you’re probably asking yourself?

What I am taking the long way around to point out is this. People are being duped or being ignorant or being judgmental about Muslim’s. If this doesn’t fit you, then that’s great, you must have intelligence and none of this was directed at you to begin with. The Muslim religion is just like Christianity in fact. There are many different branches of it, just like a tree, or Christianity. Christians have the Baptist’s, Catholic’s, Lutheran’s, and the Church of the Latter Day Saints. Well, the Muslim religion has the same differences between them. The Shiite’s, Bath, and the Sunni’s are just a few of the different divisions between them.

Who’s duping you, you would like to know? Well, that depends a whole lot on how you got the perspective to believe that way to begin with. Did you read about “Muslim’s” in the newspaper? Did you read about the differences in the Muslim religion, or did you just skim over the facts and forget or just not care about those differences? Well, if that’s how you got the information and didn’t bother to read up on the Muslim’s then you are your own worst enemy here. People are judgmental because they choose to be. If you’ve read my post on racism you probably know what I’m talking about. Judging Muslim’s on the fact that a few Zionistic individuals have done violent actions against a nation is a pretty stupid thing to do. That would be like me or anyone else judging all red-blooded rednecks ignorantly as members of the cross burning K.K.K. How would you like to be lumped in with those guys? I bet if you were a good ole country boy who didn’t believe that way; it would royally piss you off.

Well, now how do you think Muslim’s feel when they’re judged because their religious zealots have chosen a Jihad against Americans? Not all Muslim’s are in on the Jihad. Do I know which ones, specifically? Nope, I sure don’t but that doesn’t mean I’m going to see all Muslim’s as a problem either. I know I sure take the time to figure out who it is that I am talking to, reading about, or even standing next to in a grocery store line.

Who's duping you? Am I pointing fingers to Capitol Hill, or the White House? No, I'm not. You figure out the rest on your own. This website is all about "Denying Ignorance" so I am challenging those who post here. Are you intelligent enough to Deny Ignorance?

I sure hope so.



[edit on 21-1-2007 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

I am against extremist, whether they are muslim, christian, jewish, hindu, satanist, etc.

Catch my drift! Muslims are to blame for their terrorist behavior when they do not speak out about the wrongful actions of those that kill themselves and others in the name of Allah!

You are way off base, chill and get a reality check!

I'm way off base? I think you didn't bother to read all of what I said or you selectively read it. I don't agree with the extremist's of any faction of religions. I believe that religion is not a reason to fight, at all.

They did that in the Middle Ages, or "Dark Ages" and by "they" I am referring to all the world's religions, not just one or another.

Turn each other in? So, you think that one Muslim should turn in another Muslim for being a "backpack bomber" or "terrorist"? Do you really think that all Muslim's know one another? That's like saying that all black people know all black people and because one black man stole a car, someone who doesn't know him should turn him in.

Keep trying dude, you do not know what you're talking about.

Originally posted by mel1962
Catch my drift! Muslims are to blame for their terrorist behavior when they do not speak out about the wrongful actions of those that kill themselves and others in the name of Allah!

um, do you see white people going out and constantly speaking out against the KKK these days?
not really
why?
because they're a relatively insignificant (though very loud) minority among decent, rational, white folk

it's the same for muslims
the terrorists amoung them make up such a small percentage
the only problem is that the terrorists are the ones that get all the media coverage

You are way off base, chill and get a reality check!

our great ATS warrior king is not off base here
far from it

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by mel1962
Catch my drift! Muslims are to blame for their terrorist behavior when they do not speak out about the wrongful actions of those that kill themselves and others in the name of Allah!

um, do you see white people going out and constantly speaking out against the KKK these days?
not really
why?
because they're a relatively insignificant (though very loud) minority among decent, rational, white folk

it's the same for muslims
the terrorists amoung them make up such a small percentage
the only problem is that the terrorists are the ones that get all the media coverage

You are way off base, chill and get a reality check!

our great ATS warrior king is not off base here
far from it

Thanks for that post, I am trying to shake up things a bit. That's why I picked the "Slug-Fest" arena to post. I am challenging people to take on a majorly controversial topic.

GREAT POST.

If you can't read between the lines on this one folks, it might be time to ask yourselves whether or not the terrorists failed to do the same thing with the Koran.

Amazing to me the power of the written word and how we've been so conditioned to attack everything we heard and read recently - almost instinctively.

But if you insist on fighting, by all means....slug it out!

do you see white people going out and constantly speaking out against the KKK these days?
not really
why?
because they're a relatively insignificant (though very loud) minority among decent, rational, white folk

Well yeah quite often you do, especially after any racist outrage or attack. There were marches and vigils after a black teenager was killed by racist thugs in Liverpool, there were demostrations in Germany when a Turkish hostel was firebombed and occupants died. This is often the case after these type of events, it's the communities way of saying we condemn these people who claim to do these things in our name.

it's the same for muslims
the terrorists amoung them make up such a small percentage
the only problem is that the terrorists are the ones that get all the media coverage

So in all reality it's only sensible for muslim communities to get together and counter balance that attention with their own denouncing of such views. Now to be fair I think they are a lot more vocal and proactive these days than they were in the past and there's a valid point that the media don't often give as much airtime to calls from muslims for peace and reconcilliation but unfair as it is the louder the nutters keep screaming the more prudent it is for them to shout louder.

Originally posted by mel1962
I am against extremist, whether they are muslim, christian, jewish, hindu, satanist, etc.

Catch my drift! Muslims are to blame for their terrorist behavior when they do not speak out about the wrongful actions of those that kill themselves and others in the name of Allah!

You are way off base, chill and get a reality check!

mel, you are correct in saying that your against extremists, but first, what does extremism mean?? Does it imply physical voilence? Second, i think you need to read between the lines about his post..it is about waking up on the fact that WE are buying into viewing someone based on their religion as BAD, EVIL ect. Remember the crusades, christians are to blame for that arent they? or are they not to blame? The way i interpret this post is about thinking for yourself and not passing judgement about someone because there happens to be extremists in that religion. There will always be violence in different ways, how will you decide who is to blame?

What we are doing to the situation of 'muslim finatics' is not helping at all.
We are creating a major excuse for them within their own ranks.

I said it before Ill say it again.

The only people who can REMOVE that radical muslim mentality ARE muslims.
But the more we Murder and maime in IRAQ, the smaller that window of opportunity becomes.

We are both to blame,
But surley we have to accept that hitting Iraq has played into their hands like putty.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
We are both to blame,
But surley we have to accept that hitting Iraq has played into their hands like putty.

You hit the nail on the head there....The unfortunate problem is that most of the muslim extremists/jihadists AND anyone else on this planet will not or can not do unto others as....... and they perpetuate the whole situation. THAT is the problem

[edit on 22-1-2007 by capsitan]

Originally posted by capsitan

Originally posted by mel1962
I am against extremist, whether they are muslim, christian, jewish, hindu, satanist, etc.

Catch my drift! Muslims are to blame for their terrorist behavior when they do not speak out about the wrongful actions of those that kill themselves and others in the name of Allah!

You are way off base, chill and get a reality check!

mel, you are correct in saying that your against extremists, but first, what does extremism mean?? Does it imply physical voilence? Second, i think you need to read between the lines about his post..it is about waking up on the fact that WE are buying into viewing someone based on their religion as BAD, EVIL ect. Remember the crusades, christians are to blame for that arent they? or are they not to blame? The way i interpret this post is about thinking for yourself and not passing judgement about someone because there happens to be extremists in that religion. There will always be violence in different ways, how will you decide who is to blame?

Thank you, this is what I was looking for with this thread. You hit the nail on the head with what you said. Read between the lines. This is about thinking for yourself, being an independant mind who understands truly what you are seeing and not the BS you're being spoonfed.

[edit on 22-1-2007 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

I like some of the answers I've gotten so far, but where's everyone else?
I figured this thread would have been lit up like a 4th of July. I guess there must be a lot of people out there who agree with the point of view I'm expressing here.



[edit on 23-1-2007 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Yeah i thought this post would have gotten tons of replys, well either two things...People just dont want to read it because the title turns them off or most of the people on ATS pretty much feel like you and me on here, plus the other guy who said to read between the lines also...

Good post man, i wish more people would get in on this one. People ACTUALLY BELIEVE that 'muslims hate us because of our freedom.' what a bunch of nonsense. Alot of muslims, (they dont even have to be muslims, just people outside america) dislike our foreign policy, not our 'freedom' ugh, i cant believe i came to this planet!!

Thanks capistan for the post. This should have pissed off quite a few people and got them ranting at the initiator of the thread, yours truly. I see what I'm saying what others are seeing and saying as a form of racism.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
where's everyone else?

Probably tired about talking about RADICAL EXTREMIST muslims. I know I am. There is a difference .. and most people here say so in their posts. Some don't... but most do.

Originally posted by capsitan
People ACTUALLY BELIEVE that 'muslims hate us because of our freedom.'

Radical muslim extremists hate anyone who isn't a muslim - that includes muslims who aren't 'muslim enough' for them.

Those radicals DO hate our freedoms because it means that we have freedom of religion - which they are determined to destroy.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
The problem is not with Muslim’s, it’s with you, you right there reading this who think that Muslim’s are the problem.

Radical extremist muslims are the problem. Does that count in your mind? Or are we law abiding middle class Americans still 'the problem' and the mass murdering terrorist extremists aren't?

The Muslim religion, is just like Christianity, exactly like it in fact.

Prove it.

This website is all about "Denying Ignorance" so I am challenging those who post here. Are you intelligent enough to Deny Ignorance?

Hoaky.

Actually Flyers Fan, you've proven My point exactly in quite a bit of what you've said.

The extremists are the problem...you just said it...not the whole of Islam and the Muslim religion. That's one part of the religion which is not smiled upon by the others.

Yes, there is a part if not whole of the Muslim's who hate our "Freedom of Religion" that we get to have, and because they think that since we're not Muslim's we should die for being an "Infidel" and I do not know of any that spread that hatred.

If you're in a nation of Muslim's do you know which are the extremist's and which are not? Not likely, it's not like they wear signs around their necks.

What I meant about the Muslim religion being just like Christianity is exactly what I stated, they have their own branches just like Christianity. The newspapers talk about the Sunni's hating the Shiite's or vice versa, or the Baath Party despising another, etc. They are where other nations of the world were hundreds of years ago, like the Middle Ages, or more popularly known, Dark Ages, where religions went to war with one another.

Catholicism went to war with Protestanism, the Irish Catholics hated the Church of England, etc. This actually happened, throughout history.

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
Catholicism went to war with Protestanism, the Irish Catholics hated the Church of England, etc. This actually happened, throughout history.

Yeah, i think that the illuminati is trying to get this to happen again, only on a greater scale, but i dont think the masses will buy into it. Fortunately there are few extremists. But UNfortunately, i would still like to see the moderate muslims trying to eliminate the teachings of the extremists, instead of the extremists trying to eliminate the teachings of the 'moderates.' I guess it is going on both ways. There is supposedly a galactic federation of planets, which i believe does exist, that are still deciding whether our planet is 'worthy' of saving because the illuminati has infiltrated everything. sorry if i went off-base, but i had to throw that in there

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
Actually Flyers Fan, you've proven My point exactly in quite a bit of what you've said.

Glad to be of service.

The extremists are the problem ...

You betchya. They are a problem for everone, including other muslims. Some folks ask why muslims don't come out and condemn the extremists. I am of the opinon that a lot of muslims are just as afraid of the terrorists as we 'infidels' are.

The other problem is that many folks don't admit that there are radical muslim extremists. But the fact is that they are very real. The danger from them is very real - for everyone including muslims who the radicals don't think are 'muslim enough'.

Catholicism went to war with Protestanism, the Irish Catholics hated the Church of England, etc.

Protestants went to war with Catholicism, the Church of England hated the Irish Catholics .... actually, I see it the exact opposite as what you wrote.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
Actually Flyers Fan, you've proven My point exactly in quite a bit of what you've said.

Glad to be of service.

The extremists are the problem ...

You betchya. They are a problem for everone, including other muslims. Some folks ask why muslims don't come out and condemn the extremists. I am of the opinon that a lot of muslims are just as afraid of the terrorists as we 'infidels' are.

The other problem is that many folks don't admit that there are radical muslim extremists. But the fact is that they are very real. The danger from them is very real - for everyone including muslims who the radicals don't think are 'muslim enough'.

I agree. These people are very scary, and because they are taking their religion with screwed views, I don't see it changing. We are all afraid of these "radicals". WE never attacked Islam once-- we never attacked ISLAM-- in fact George W Bush never said that the problem lied with Islam or the Qu'ran-- but the terrorists themselves. These terrorists don't take their religion seriously. They could, but they would rather blow themselves up with the rest of everyone else to take out the United States, because they feel they hate it, it's only now that we are retaliating.

Catholicism went to war with Protestanism, the Irish Catholics hated the Church of England, etc.

Protestants went to war with Catholicism, the Church of England hated the Irish Catholics .... actually, I see it the exact opposite as what you wrote.

Oh yeah, and don't forget about what they did to the Anabaptists.

I have to agree with SpartanKing. I listen to alot of talk radio, and several Muslims have called in saying that the way the extreemist's are reading the Koran is INSANE, some have contracts out on them for speaking out! The extreemist's even bomb Mosques! They hate everyone, no matter what your religion, and if you are Muslim and do not see it thier way, they hate you MORE!! I want to see an extreemist leader that is willing to strap a bomb on themselves if they believe in it so much!! It is like a cult...let the followers die because you don't have the guts to do it yourself. I have seen some awsome Muslim people that I would trust with my life, and they are the biggest target of all. All they want it to live a good life, have thier family and friends, and worship as they want (which is very peaceful in fact). But they themselves have to live wondering if an extreemist group will target them for not being insane!