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How does JAHBULON even make sense?

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posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 09:51 PM
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Interesting ML. I can see that as being the explanation, weren't the killers of Hiram Abif named similarly?




posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by Appak

Originally posted by Beelzebubba
Your explanation v. the linked rituals makes me wonder just who is doing the obscuring.



"linked rituals" available on the WORLD WIDE WEB, right?


And not one of them is a conspiracist site, they are links to articles by your brethren. The most tenuous link would be to Wikipedia, yet what is written there seems to concur with the other links and the Masonic books I have been reading.

Macoy's dictionary is sitting here in front of me.

I also have a copy of Duncan's Ritual and Monitor here in front of me and it shows me that the link to his work is the same.


As a Royal Arch Mason of MANY years and a fan of Pike (who, by the way was a Royal Arch Mason...presiding officer, yadda yadda)


Bully for you.


I guess the only REAL way of knowing who's doing the obscuring (as you say) is to BECOME one, huh?


No thank you.


Otherwise it's you saying "yes you are" and us saying "no, we aren't"


I'm not just saying it, I'm at least providing links to back it up. What are you providing? Oh yes, your holier than thou attitude.


Then again, that could sum-up everything that is said on this forum regarding Masons, couldn't it?

But, by all means....let us continue with the nonsense and conjecture. After all...why bring fact into the picture and ruin the wild speculation?


And you have added absolutely nothing to this discussion. If the best you can do is attack and insult, maybe you should look elsewhere to vent your spleen. Show me where I have been spewing wild speculation in this thread.

It amazes me that Mason's say: "We have no dark secrets. Everything but the grips and modes of recognition are available to the public." and "Buy some books on Masonry to learn more." When you take that advice and do some actual research it still gets thrown in your face. Sheesh.


...Uffish, how appropriate.

[edit on 25/1/2007 by Beelzebubba]



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 11:17 PM
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Bubba,

I don't have a "holier than thou" attitude. But as a very active Royal Arch Mason of MANY years. I have NEVER ONCE heard the word Jah-Buh-On uttered.

Believe what you will. God knows you won't be alone on this site.

Jah is used in the R.A. Degree. Bel (NOT Buh...what does that even MEAN?) and On (not Lon)...but not as a conglomerate word. Jah-Buh-Lon...indeed, as the title of the thread says...how DOES that make sense?

Certainly doesn't to anyone who's actually EXPERIENCED the Royal Arch Degree...regardless what you "googled" on the web.

But, then again you've "Googled" up some info so you OBVIOUSLY know more than an ACTUAL Royal Arch Mason, huh?

Sorry you don't like my attitude. That's typical on this forum. "Oh, the Masons don't like being lied about so they attack us like a feeding frenzy"

Sheesh!

Push the "ignore" button for all I care, but I don't like lies being spread when I know the truth about the Royal Arch Degree (and numerous other Masonic Degrees) and I'll continue to refute slander in whatever form it may take.

As far as finding links that back it up. Ever heard of books? I found a link the other day that proves beyond shadow of doubt that the moon is made of green cheese. And to think...I always though it was sort of beige.

"uffish" indeed.

Keep on "googling"


[edit on 25-1-2007 by Appak]



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 11:36 PM
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Originally posted by Appak
Bubba,

I don't have a "holier than thou" attitude. But as a very active Royal Arch Mason of MANY years. I have NEVER ONCE heard the word Jah-Buh-On uttered.


Well of course not, because it's Jah-Bul-On not Jah-Buh-Lon. According to Macoy's Dictionary Bel and Bul are the same. Did you even read my earlier posts?


Believe what you will. Jah is used in the R.A. Degree. Bel (NOT Buh) and On...but not as a conglomerate word.


Buh, where on earth did you get that from?


Oh yes, in the Duncan's link. That is the only time it is cited and you are using that rather than the 99% when it is pronounced correctly.

As I stated earlier I don't pretend to know the meaning of the word or it's myriad of spellings. What of the other links to back it up?


According to The Rev. Canon Richard Tydeman, in an address to the Supreme Grand Chapter of England on 13 November 1985, the word is a compound of three Hebrew terms:

יהּ (Yah, I AM, which indicates eternal existence),
בּעל (bul, on high, in heaven) and
און (on, strength); pronouncing three aspects or qualities of Deity, namely Eternal Existence, Transcendence, and Omnipotence and equating to "The True and Living God - Most High - Almighty".[11]



Regardless what you "googled" on the web.


And read in books by your 'brethren'.


But, what do I know....I'm just a poor, hood-winked ignorant Mason.


And I'm just a dumb, ignorant, profanum.
I don't think you are ignorant of it, quite the opposite actually.





[edit on 25/1/2007 by Beelzebubba]



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 11:44 PM
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Originally posted by Beelzebubba
Then tell me, what is the three syllable name on the golden plate?


YHVH of course. What else COULD it be?




According to The Rev. Canon Richard Tydeman, in an address to the Supreme Grand Chapter of England on 13 November 1985, the word is a compound of three Hebrew terms:
יהּ (Yah, I AM, which indicates eternal existence),
בּעל (bul, on high, in heaven) and
און (on, strength); pronouncing three aspects or qualities of Deity, namely Eternal Existence, Transcendence, and Omnipotence and equating to "The True and Living God - Most High - Almighty".[11]



I'll have to say you have me over a barrel as I am a member of the Royal Arch in the U.S.A. and the ritual is quite different here. (You see there is no "Masonic Ritual" but numerous "Masonic Rituals")

Yah I can buy. Bul is Bull as far as I am concerned and On...well "strength" sounds good, but I'd be more inclined to believe "Osiris" than that. ...but that's just me.

Again I say...I have NEVER ONCE (and bear in mind I'm a past presiding officer of the Royal Arch Chapter) seen the word "Jah-Buh-Lon" used in the Royal Arch (or ANY other Masonic Degree)

And if some jurisdiction uses it, I'll refer again to the title of the thread...how does it make sense?

Oh well, enough for tonight.

Been fun!



posted on Jan, 25 2007 @ 11:56 PM
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Originally posted by Appak

Originally posted by Beelzebubba
Then tell me, what is the three syllable name on the golden plate?


YHVH of course. What else COULD it be?


Three syllables?... hmmm. Tell me, how you get three out of YHVH?




According to The Rev. Canon Richard Tydeman, in an address to the Supreme Grand Chapter of England on 13 November 1985, the word is a compound of three Hebrew terms:
יהּ (Yah, I AM, which indicates eternal existence),
בּעל (bul, on high, in heaven) and
און (on, strength); pronouncing three aspects or qualities of Deity, namely Eternal Existence, Transcendence, and Omnipotence and equating to "The True and Living God - Most High - Almighty".[11]


I'll have to say you have me over a barrel as I am a member of the Royal Arch in the U.S.A. and the ritual is quite different here. (You see there is no "Masonic Ritual" but numerous "Masonic Rituals")


As England is the home of the UGLE and is viewed as the worldwide authority, I think it might hold some weight.


Yah I can buy. Bul is Bull as far as I am concerned and On...well "strength" sounds good, but I'd be more inclined to believe "Osiris" than that. ...but that's just me.


Go to page 442 of your copy of Macoy's Dictionary of Freemasonry


Again I say...I have NEVER ONCE (and bear in mind I'm a past presiding officer of the Royal Arch Chapter) seen the word "Jah-Buh-Lon" used in the Royal Arch (or ANY other Masonic Degree)


By continually using the one mistake in a link and not what was written earlier... I think you're reaching.


And if some jurisdiction uses it, I'll refer again to the title of the thread...how does it make sense?


Hey, I'm not the one who made up the term. Again I refer you to Macoy's Dictionary.



[edit on 26/1/2007 by Beelzebubba]



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by Beelzebubba
Three syllables?... hmmm. Tell me, how you get three out of YHVH?


Nope. That'd be a violation of my obligation as a Royal Arch Mason. Check out Macoy's "Guide to the Royal Arch Chapter" It's for sale from Macoy Masonic Publishing to anyone with a few $.



As England is the home of the UGLE and is viewed as the worldwide authority, I think it might hold some weight.


Viewed by whom as the worldwide authority? The UGLE holds no authority over ANY Grand Lodge or other Masonic body in the U.S.A. That sort of went by the way-side back when the "colonies" started becoming "States"

There IS NO central Masonic "authority" Never has been. Never will be. Each State in the U.S. has a Grand Lodge. Each Grand Lodge is autonomous. Most States have a Grand Chapter (which governs the Royal Arch Degree) Many of these utilize the ritual of the General Grand Chapter of Royal Arch Masons. Some states have their own (slightly different) version of the ritual. None of these rituals have the word "Jah-Buh-lon" in them.


Go to page 442 of your copy of Macoy's Dictionary of Freemasonry


Yes, I've read what Bro. Macoy's Dictionary has to say. That still does NOT insert the word "Jah-Buh-Lon" into the Royal Arch Degree (at least not in the U.S.A....where Macoy was a member)


Hey, I'm not the one who made up the term.


Nor did I. Nor have I ever seen it in a Royal Arch Ritual.

Trinityman, you're a Mason from the UK. Ever seen or heard that word? It's sure not in the ritual of the General Grand Chapter. [shrug]


[edit on 26-1-2007 by Appak]



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 12:23 AM
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Jah-Bul-On too, please Trinityman.
I'd also like to see what Trinity's thoughts are on the authority of the UGLE.



[edit on 26/1/2007 by Beelzebubba]



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by Appak
Viewed by whom as the worldwide authority? The UGLE holds no authority over ANY Grand Lodge or other Masonic body in the U.S.A. That sort of went by the way-side back when the "colonies" started becoming "States"


If this is the case and the US spurned the authority of the UGLE. Is Freemasonry in the States viewed as irregular by the UGLE?

Certainly other Masonic Orders that have been termed "Irregular" in other countries (Italy and France spring to mind) are judged so by the UGLE.


Originally posted by Appak
Check out Macoy's "Guide to the Royal Arch Chapter" It's for sale from Macoy Masonic Publishing to anyone with a few $.


I shall, Thanks Appak.




[edit on 26/1/2007 by Beelzebubba]



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 01:05 AM
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Originally posted by Beelzebubba
Three syllables?... hmmm. Tell me, how you get three out of YHVH?

DOn't the vowels 'reside' within the consonants in semitic writtings?


As England is the home of the UGLE and is viewed as the worldwide authority, I think it might hold some weight.

But if its not being used in american jurisdictions, then that authority can't amount to much, no?

If this is the case and the US spurned the authority of the UGLE. Is Freemasonry in the States viewed as irregular by the UGLE?

I think what appak is saying is that the subdivisions are independant, and if they happen to agree on certain consitutional matters, then they recognize each other, and of course UGLE is the most respected, so it holds sway. But even it can't make a subdivision within the US, or perhaps even, say, scotland, use a particular wording of the ritual. Its not a matter of spurning UGLE though.


It seems like the two of you are coming at this from completely different angles, and I think that both arguements make a lot of sense. ON the one hand, there's the actual rituals as they are practiced. Appak reports that Jahbulon simply isn't used.
On the other hand, there is the interpretation of the masonic symbols, devices, and meanings of the rituals, interpretations that are purely subjective and not laid out in any one authoratative book, or decided upon by any one committee. You report that many authors have investigated this name Jahbulon, in its various forms, and they have speculated on its meanings, using old masonic and classicist methods of looking for references to thet bible and classical cultures. In that vein, there are several interpretations as to what Jahbulon means, esoterically, and how it can, perhaps, teach a person about the "lessons" of, say, any ritual it is being used in.

If Masonic Light's research is correct, and I think most of us agree that he's not slack in his research, then it appears to be a matter of the word existining originally in a continental version of a ritual. That formulation of the ritual falls out of favour, like many fads, but the esoteric interpretations of Jahbulon takes on a life of its own within masonry. Apparently because mason's find it as fascinating a word to speculate about as, well, us.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by Beelzebubba
Three syllables?... hmmm. Tell me, how you get three out of YHVH?

DOn't the vowels 'reside' within the consonants in semitic writtings?


יהוה

Nygdan, is this it? Thanks for that, it makes sense now.




As England is the home of the UGLE and is viewed as the worldwide authority, I think it might hold some weight.

But if its not being used in american jurisdictions, then that authority can't amount to much, no?... Its not a matter of spurning UGLE though.


It certainly seemed that way, judging by Appaks retort. However, does this sovereignty in the US relate to how it is viewed by the UGLE?


Apparently because mason's find it as fascinating a word to speculate about as, well, us.


Well, that is amusing.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 06:18 AM
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Originally posted by Beelzebubba
It certainly seemed that way, judging by Appaks retort. However, does this sovereignty in the US relate to how it is viewed by the UGLE?


Nygdan's explanation was quite right. Certainly Grand Lodges (nor even individual Masons) in the U.S.A. do not spurn the UGLE, but the UGLE simply has no authority over any of us. In the same manner the Grand Lodge of say New York has no authority over the Grand Lodge of New Jersey and so on. We're all in what we call "recognition" of one another and individual members can visit Lodges in other states. There have been cases when a Grand Lodge makes a decision that falls out of favor with other Grand Lodges and recognition is rescinded.

As for rituals, as I said earlier. There is no ONE ritual because there is no ONE central Masonic authority. Every State in the U.S.A. has it's own version of the "Blue" Lodge Ritual. Some are identical, some are quite similar, some are vastly different. ALL are vastly different from the various versions practiced in the U.K.

The same goes for the Royal Arch Ritual. There is a General Grand Chapter of Royal Arch Masons which one would THINK has authority over all the State Grand Chapters...but it doesn't. Each State Grand Chapter can decided whether or not to become a member. Also each State has it's own version of the Royal Arch Ritual. Many choose to use the one issued by the Gen. Grand. Chapter, but many do not.

NONE of the Royal Arch Rituals in the U.S.A. use the word Jah-Bul-On/Jah-Buh-Lon.

I've read that there are a dozen or more versions of the Royal Arch Ritual in the UK. I have never participated in one so I'm not sure if they use the word or not...but I can't imagine why they would.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 08:22 AM
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Originally posted by Appak
Trinityman, you're a Mason from the UK. Ever seen or heard that word? It's sure not in the ritual of the General Grand Chapter. [shrug]



Originally posted by Beelzebubba
Jah-Bul-On too, please Trinityman.


I think one cannot post even for a small amount of time on ATS and not have heard of this word. I am quite familiar with all the different meanings and interpretations of the word but have never really got involved in the discussion because it never seemed to apply to me. I know that different jurisdictions vary enormously in their ritual, and indeed there are notable differences between the Royal Arch in the US and in England.

The reason it doesn't really apply to me is because no such word appears in English RA ritual. I have worked Aldersgate ritual but I know fir sure it is not in Domatic or Warwickshire, and it is extremely unlikely to be in any of the others as they simply don't vary that much.

I would be very interested in the reference to Rev. Canon Richard Tydeman, he is an extremely knowledgeable man but there must be more to his lecture than is being quoted because, as I have already stated, that word in not known in English RA masonry.

I believe the word used to be used some years ago but I cannot verify how long ago or in what context. I have been a Royal Arch mason since 1998.


I'd also like to see what Trinity's thoughts are on the authority of the UGLE.


The UGLE is the oldest, largest and one of the most respected masonic authorities in the world. Together with the Grand Lodges of Scotland and Ireland (known as the Mother Grand Lodges) it is responsible for originating pretty much all regular masonry on the planet. However it has absolutely no authority whatsoever over any other grand lodge; indeed it cannot, as a fundamental requirement for regularity is that a Grand Lodge is a sovereign body, independent of any other.

However all this talk of UGLE and grand lodges is a red herring, as Grand Lodges have no jurisdiction over the Royal Arch. In the US it is part of the York Rite and governed accordingly. In England and Wales it is governed by the Supreme Grand Chapter, a sovereign Grand Chapter. However as it was not founded until after the Union in 1813, when Royal Arch Masonry was clarified after a period of some confusion, it is younger than many of the Grand Chapters in the US, and the ritual in the US is likely to be closer to 18th century workings than the neutered version we use in England. The UGLE only has authority over the three Craft degrees, in common with most other regular grand lodges.

Unfortunately all my books are still in storage, but I'll see what I can find out about this word and it's history in England.

However, and perhaps someone can help me out here, I'm not sure what the point of all this is. What is trying to be proven? There must be an easier way of doing it!



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by Trinityman
However all this talk of UGLE and grand lodges is a red herring, as Grand Lodges have no jurisdiction over the Royal Arch. In the US it is part of the York Rite and governed accordingly. In England and Wales it is governed by the Supreme Grand Chapter, a sovereign Grand Chapter. The UGLE only has authority over the three Craft degrees, in common with most other regular grand lodges.


While this is true, in the U.S.A. at least the Grand Lodge DOES determine what "Masonic" branches, appendant bodies, etc. are...well...."Masonic" Each Grand Lodge lists specifically those groups allowed to work in their jurisdiction. Should a Grand Lodge determine that Royal Arch Masonry was not regular, all Royal Arch Masons would have the choice of demitting from that branch or being suspended (perhaps expelled) from Masonry. That nearly happened with the Scottish Rite in Oklahoma some years ago. Two egos met in the form of a Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite and the seated Grand Master of Oklahoma. Scottish Rite Masonry was almost booted from Oklahoma. Fortunately they worked things out..as brothers should, but it could have been really nasty. So in some ways Grand Lodges, being the foundation of Freemasonry DO have control over concordant bodies.

(This just to clarify the basic structure of Freemasonry)


However, and perhaps someone can help me out here, I'm not sure what the point of all this is. What is trying to be proven? There must be an easier way of doing it!


TM,

I think the point has been made. This "mongrel" word as Pike supposedly called it isn't used in the Royal Arch Ritual. Perhaps it was at one time.

Don't know why the thread should continue, but I suspect it will.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Beelzebubba


ML, could you supply a link to the ritual as it pertains to this 'character'?


See the wikipedia link posted by Tamahu, as well as the chapter oh "Jahbulon" in "Is It True What They Say About Freemasonry" by Dr. S. Brent Morris and Arturo DeHoyos.


It is interesting that Masonic Scholar Piers A. Vaughn believes that the Royal Arch Ritual has it's origins in France.


It is the general consensus that this is indeed the case.


Is that link a fabricated ritual?



It would be impossible for me to say just by reading it online. Literally thousands of versions have been written.



I also find it odd that the initiate in the ritual would have a name that is more grandiose than that of the Presiding Officer and the Second Principal.


I wouldn't think so. It is for the benefit of the candidate that everyone is there doing the degree, and the candidate is always cast in the herioc sense to convey the message.


I find using Pike's writings, as a source, to be very subjective. Mason's seem to pick and choose what they like of his work and use it to back their arguments. You agree with Pike in this instance, but there are other points with which you disagree (The Blazing Star = Sirius) that seem to be fundamental to Pike's belief system.


One must differentiate between Pike's opinions and the facts he actually discovered. One can agree or disagree with his opinions, but his discovery of the origin of that particular word is generally considered to be correct.



As I have seen mentioned by Mason's on this forum many times; Pike is by no means the world authority on what the definitive meaning of Masonic ritual is.


You have not seen it mentioned by me, though. Personally, I think Pike was the closest of all 19th century Masonic scholars concerning the meaning of Masonry.


Macoy was a SR Mason and his explanation for the three syllables imparts names that are of significant import in that in two cases (Jah and On) he equates with YHVH.

That these three syllables are the same that go unnamed in the ritual is pretty obvious.


I further solemnly promise that I will not dare to pronounce the Sacred and Mysterious Name of the True and Living God Most High



...nor to share if by syllables unless in the presence and with the assistance of two or more Royal Arch Companions.


These lines do not appear in the legitimate ritual, nor is "Jahbulon" associated with God in the ritual. In some lectures (not the ritual) it is said that "Jah" was Hebrew, "Baal" Assyrian, and "On" Egyptian words for "Lord", and therefore that these words "describe" God. However, "On" is not an Egyptian word at all, and certainly didn't mean "Lord" in this language. I think this is just another case of what Pike described with Webb and Cross: when people don't know the real meaning of something, they just make stuff up.



Approaching with reverential awe, I lifted the veil, and beheld what I humbly supposed to be the Sacred and Mysterious Name itself. I replaced the veil on the sacred pedestal, and was again raised out of the vaulted chamber. We then closed the aperture, and hastened hither, to report to your Excellencies the discoveries which we have made.
Zerubbabel: Will you communicate the word which you discovered?
PS: That, Most Enlightened, we must beg to be excused from, for we have heard with our ears, and our forefathers have declared that in their time, and in the old times before them, it was lawful for none but the High Priest to pronounce the name of the True and Living God Most High, nor him but once a year, when he alone entered the Holy of Holiness, and stood before the Ark of the Covenant to make propitiation for the sins of Israel.
Zerubbabel: We command your pious caution, and will depute certain of our Companions to proceed with you to the spot, and examine into the nature of your discovery.
Scribe Ezra whispers to the PS: State what you saw on that plate of gold.


These parts of the ritual tell us that the initiate will be imparted with this name. I can find no other evidence in the ritual where this knowledge is given except for when the 'cryptic' golden plate is read. Which of course would go unwritten in the transcript because it is not to be pronounced (And perhaps to keep it from the view of profane eyes).

Your explanation v. the linked rituals makes me wonder just who is doing the obscuring.


The above does not come from the legitimate ritual. However, the legitimate ritual does meantion the Sacred and Mysterious Name of God being found on Ark. This Name is one of the greatest symbols of Masonry, and basis of all Kabalistic learning. It is the Tetragrammaton, and appears in the ritual in the original Hebrew.

So one may ask: "How does Jahbulon relate to the Holy Name of the Tetragrammaton?" As mentioned, Pike asked this very question, and finally, the answer he founf was "Not at all".



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 01:08 PM
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I further solemnly promise that I will not dare to pronounce the Sacred and Mysterious Name of the True and Living God Most High



...nor to share if by syllables unless in the presence and with the assistance of two or more Royal Arch Companions.


These lines do not appear in the legitimate ritual, nor is "Jahbulon" associated with God in the ritual. In some lectures (not the ritual) it is said that "Jah" was Hebrew, "Baal" Assyrian, and "On" Egyptian words for "Lord", and therefore that these words "describe" God. However, "On" is not an Egyptian word at all, and certainly didn't mean "Lord" in this language. I think this is just another case of what Pike described with Webb and Cross: when people don't know the real meaning of something, they just make stuff up.



Approaching with reverential awe, I lifted the veil, and beheld what I humbly supposed to be the Sacred and Mysterious Name itself. I replaced the veil on the sacred pedestal, and was again raised out of the vaulted chamber. We then closed the aperture, and hastened hither, to report to your Excellencies the discoveries which we have made.
Zerubbabel: Will you communicate the word which you discovered?
PS: That, Most Enlightened, we must beg to be excused from, for we have heard with our ears, and our forefathers have declared that in their time, and in the old times before them, it was lawful for none but the High Priest to pronounce the name of the True and Living God Most High, nor him but once a year, when he alone entered the Holy of Holiness, and stood before the Ark of the Covenant to make propitiation for the sins of Israel.
Zerubbabel: We command your pious caution, and will depute certain of our Companions to proceed with you to the spot, and examine into the nature of your discovery.
Scribe Ezra whispers to the PS: State what you saw on that plate of gold.


These parts of the ritual tell us that the initiate will be imparted with this name. I can find no other evidence in the ritual where this knowledge is given except for when the 'cryptic' golden plate is read. Which of course would go unwritten in the transcript because it is not to be pronounced (And perhaps to keep it from the view of profane eyes).

Your explanation v. the linked rituals makes me wonder just who is doing the obscuring.


The above does not come from the legitimate ritual. However, the legitimate ritual does meantion the Sacred and Mysterious Name of God being found on Ark. This Name is one of the greatest symbols of Masonry, and basis of all Kabalistic learning. It is the Tetragrammaton, and appears in the ritual in the original Hebrew.

So one may ask: "How does Jahbulon relate to the Holy Name of the Tetragrammaton?" As mentioned, Pike asked this very question, and finally, the answer he founf was "Not at all".


Actually the ritual above is quite legitimate. It's English, probably Domatic Ritual. It's not Aldersgate. However the posting of that ritual on this site serves to prove nothing, except that beelzebub knows how to cut and paste text. The sacred & mysterious name of the TALGMH is not mentioned anywhere in the quoted text, quite rightly, but the poster is making an assumtion that it is Jahbulon or some such derivative.

Allow me to repeat, Jahbulon or any such similar derivative is not used in English ritual and consequently cannot be the name of God as used in Royal Arch masonry.

[edit on 1/26/07 by Trinityman]



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 03:39 PM
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Originally posted by Trinityman


Actually the ritual above is quite legitimate. It's English, probably Domatic Ritual. It's not Aldersgate. However the posting of that ritual on this site serves to prove nothing, except that beelzebub knows how to cut and paste text. The sacred & mysterious name of the TALGMH is not mentioned anywhere in the quoted text, quite rightly, but the poster is making an assumtion that it is Jahbulon or some such derivative.

Allow me to repeat, Jahbulon or any such similar derivative is not used in English ritual and consequently cannot be the name of God as used in Royal Arch masonry.



Thanks for the clarification. It is not the ritual authorized by the General Grand Royal Arch Chapter International, although it is indeed similar in many aspects.

"Jahbulon", or at least words similar to it, are used in most of the York Royal Arch Rites, but never as one word. In other words, it isn't claimed that three words make up one word, and Jah, Bul, On are said in some lectures (erroneously) to be Hebrew, Assyrian, and Egyptian words that "describe" the Tertragrammaton, or Sacred Name.

Even if this were true, though, it wouldn't seem as if it were particularly important. As mentioned, Pike thought it was meaningless, and that if it had any meaning at all, such mean was found only in the fact that it consists of three syllabels, which, according to him, was a hint toward something else.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
"Jahbulon", or at least words similar to it, are used in most of the York Royal Arch Rites, but never as one word.

There is nothing even remotely like this in English RA ritual, not even as three seperate words.

However as I would expect most US RA ritual to be more 'historically' accurate than English, it is possible that English ritual used to have these elements you describe, and at some point they were removed. Maybe it is to this that Canon Tydeman apparently refers to in 1985, although without seeing the lecture in context it's hard to know. I'm still hoping Beelzebub will let me know where he got this snippet from so I can have a look-see.



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 04:37 PM
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I must admit, my initial response was all I intended to add to this thread. Just to show that the definitions of the three syllables are of Masonic origin and not the invention of fevered minds. Not what the three syllables combined created or what it means.

I guess I got a little carried away.


I stated throughout that I have no idea as to what it all means, but thanks to the Masonic members of this board, much has been clarified for me.

I must also admit that Tydeman's quote intrigued me and led me to certain assumptions. If anyone can dig up the entire transcript from which this quote came, I would love to see it posted in this thread, just for contextual reasons.

Thank you Masonic Light, Appak, Trinityman, and the profane Nygdan. As usual you have shown great knowledge and restraint in what must be the millionth time Jahbulon has been mentioned in this forum.

Appak, how could I put you on 'ignore'?


"It seems very pretty," [Alice] said when she had finished it, "but it's rather hard to understand! ... Somehow it seems to fill my head with ideas--only I don't exactly know what they are!"


You make me feel like Alice.


Uffish, indeed...



[edit on 26/1/2007 by Beelzebubba]



posted on Jan, 26 2007 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by Trinityman
I'm still hoping Beelzebub will let me know where he got this snippet from so I can have a look-see.


From the Wiki link Trinity. I was sort of hoping you might have a better chance of finding an actual transcript.


[edit on 26/1/2007 by Beelzebubba]




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