Paganism and Masonry

Originally posted by Count Germails Lovechild
Well, I was the one insulting airheaded rainbow family love the Earth type Wiccans,

Nothing wrong with loving and respecting the Earth.

However, many people become fanatical and silly about it for sure.

so Forestlady if you are not a Wiccan why are you so upset?

I wondered the same thing.

But now I think that she thought that Paganism itself was getting insulted.

Anyway insulting religious beliefs is what being human is all about, imo

"All religions are precious pearls strung on the golden thread of divinity."

However, IMO, there's nothing wrong with pointing out the dangers of a specific sub-sect that teaches Black Magic, if the discussion comes up.






Regards

Originally posted by Tamahu

Right there, you admit that he adulterated the Golden Dawn rituals.

Well actually he adulterated O.T.O. rituals. For example

Gardner's III Degree Initiation

Therefore, whom we adore, we also invoke, by the power of the lifted lance.

O circle of stars, whereof our Father is but the younger brother, Marvel beyond imagination, soul of infinite space, before whom time is ashamed, the mind bewildered and understanding dark, not unto thee may we attain unless thine image be of love. Therefore, by seed and root, and stem and bud and leaf and flower and fruit do we invoke thee

Crowley's Gnostic Mass

Thee therefore whom we adore we also invoke. By the power of the lifted Lance!

O circle of Stars whereof our Father is but the younger brother, marvel beyond imagination, soul of infinite space, before whom Time is Ashamed, the mind bewildered, and the understanding dark, not unto Thee may we attain, unless Thine image be Love. Therefore by seed and root and stem and bud and leaf and flower and fruit do we invoke Thee.

There are many many more

"Fornicators use to perform their rituals nude, they are people of Black Magic!"

Gasp naked people! Oh no!

Just pulling your leg my Black Brother

[edit on 1/24/2007 by Cug]

Originally posted by Cug
Well actually he adulterated O.T.O. rituals.

Oh, I could have sworn that he stole some Golden Dawn rituals too.

But if I'm mistaken, then I'm mistaken.

"Fornicators use to perform their rituals nude, they are people of Black Magic!"

Gasp naked people! Oh no!

Well nudity itself is not the problem.

The problem is the that the ego of this luciferic humanity is just too strong, and is easily tempted by lust.

So nude group-rituals can easily become witches-sabbaths, even if that is not their original intention.


As mentioned earlier, the Arcanum A.Z.F. or Karma-Mudra between Wife and Husband is recommended.

Just pulling your leg my Black Brother

You mean Black Brother as in Black-Magician?

Or are you referring to me as having heavily melanated skin?


If the latter, I actually have very pale skin(I'm mostly German).


If the former, then since I've still got ego alive, we could say that I am a black brother to the degree of the amount of ego I've got within.

This is why we have to be "Watchful as the soldier in times of war".

Because those egos are very sneaky and are the cause of all types of perverse self-justifications!

This is why most don't persevere until the end, and end up falling into the inferior abyss!




[edit on 24-1-2007 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Tamahu




Right there, you admit that he adulterated the Golden Dawn rituals.


The rituals originally given by the Gnostic Church, adulterated with witchcraft!

To begin with, I've never seen any evidence that Golden Dawn ceremony ever had any ties to any Gnostic Churches. Secondly, the only real historic witchcraft concerns people, usually the old wise women in the village, who knew the medicinal properties of plants and herbs. All the horrid tales of witches burning and eating babies, practicing black magic, etc., are both farcical and ridiculous. In a very real sense, "witchcraft" has never even existed, and the whole belief in it was simply a product of political control.

Really, for the sake of modesty, the only Sacred Ritual to be performed nude, is the Sahaja Maithuna or Arcanum A.Z.F between Wife and Husband, and Husband and Wife only.

Again, I find all this puritanical stuff concerning sexuality to be farcical. I don't trust any religion or religious teacher who tries to regulate the sex lives of adherents. If you want the real sexual mysticism of the Adepts, try reading the Kama Sutra!

Originally posted by Masonic Light
To begin with, I've never seen any evidence that Golden Dawn ceremony ever had any ties to any Gnostic Churches.

I mean the THE Gnostic Church; A.K.A. The Great White Brotherhood, A.K.A. Brothers of the Temple, etc.

Secondly, the only real historic witchcraft concerns people, usually the old wise women in the village, who knew the medicinal properties of plants and herbs. All the horrid tales of witches burning and eating babies, practicing black magic, etc., are both farcical and ridiculous. In a very real sense, "witchcraft" has never even existed, and the whole belief in it was simply a product of political control.

From what I understand, "witch" is just another name for a Black Magician.

Witchcraft

"All of us as children listened to many stories of witches and fairies. Our grandmothers always used to tell us stories of witches that at midnight rode on their brooms and travelled through the clouds. Although it will seem incredible to many students of occultism, Theosophy, Rosicrucianism, etc., those witches really exist. They do not ride brooms as grandmothers believe, but they do know how to travel through the air. The so-called “witches” travel with their body of flesh and bone through space. They know how to make use of hyperspace and travel from one place to another with the physical body. Soon astrophysics will discover the existence of hyperspace." - The Perfect Matrimony

"Much is said about "vampirism;" it is said that "many women are vampirized." I don't deny that there are sexual vampires (yes, they exist); "Draculas" have existed and continue existing; further, it is normal today that they abound everywhere (presently, they exist and are everywhere), they are commonly called “warlocks." It is good to remember the adventure of the Trojans with the famous "Hags (witches; sorceresses)" of whom Virgil the Poet of Mantua spoke, in The Aeneid. There is no doubt that when those "Black Sorceresses," those Hags, put their bodies in a Jinn state, they are able to transport themselves to different locations of the Earth. If they have enemies, they approach them and they bite them. The wound appears, later, like a black mark in this or that part of the body. So then, indeed, they are not exactly vampires, but Hags and warlocks. That is all. They are called "Witches." They are something very common, and you know that." - From the lecture Questions of Importance to Women

The Kogi Shamans or Mamas(who are not witches) that Samael Aun Weor studied with, would also have been classified as "witches" by the profane:

Occult Medicine and Practical Magic

While medical science is inventing certified medications which are changing as incessantly as women's fashion, there exists a very ancient medical wisdom that has its origin based upon the first foundations of the world and that has never changed its formulae.

Divine wisdom is preserved in Sanctuaries which are far away from this false, materialistic civilization. This medical wisdom is zealously guarded by the Masters of wisdom in secret places that are inaccessible to the "merchants of the Temple."

This archaic medical wisdom can cure (with exact formulae) all sicknesses, even the so-called incurable ones. Leprosy, syphilis and cancer become as insignificant as a child's game before the tremendous power of the Gnostic doctor who commands life.

"Gnosis" is the name of this ancient medical wisdom, which from the dawn of creation has never changed its formulae, because these formulae are exact as the Pythagorean tablets. In these formulae, science, mysticism and royal art are in communion within a divine connubial.


The distinct indigenous tribes of the whole world are the possessors of that archaic, ancient wisdom of the Green Snake.

The occultism which is known in the cities is nothing else but a grotesque caricature of the ancient wisdom which is hidden within the subterranean Sanctuaries of the Andes, Bohemia, Tibet and in all the subterranean caverns of the Sierra Nevada of Santa Marta, in the Alps and the sandy deserts of Asia and Africa.

Again, I find all this puritanical stuff concerning sexuality to be farcical. I don't trust any religion or religious teacher who tries to regulate the sex lives of adherents. If you want the real sexual mysticism of the Adepts, try reading the Kama Sutra!

The Richard F. Burton translation is probably good.

The Forms of Tantrism

Some Esoterists (with tendencies towards oriental esotericism) who traveled in the east, had investigated the Asiatic Continent and had arrived at the conclusion that in Tibet, as well as in India, Tantrism is the only truly practical school.

Many Ashrams exist in the Sacred Land of the Vedas. They practice and study Yoga within these Ashrams; however, the most serious Ashrams are exclusively those where the Tantric teaching is abundant.


In the Hindustani markets, studious travelers can find marvelous Tantric Books like Kama Kalpa and Kama Sutra. These books are illustrated with splendid photographs related to certain sacred sculptures and bas-reliefs of their Temples. [Note: He says elsewhere that these texts and photographs are often adulterated and therefore contain many practices of Black Tantrism].


A careful examination of those photographs allows us to collect very interesting information about Tantric Maithuna (Sexual Yoga).

The Tantric type of Hatha Yoga is extraordinary and leads the Esoterist to Intimate Self-realization. However, Hatha Yoga without Tantrism is like a garden without water.

The Hindu Esoteric School of Laya Yoga with its famous Laya-Kriya Tantric Sadhana is, by all means, marvelous and leads the Neophytes to the Intimate Self-realization.

If Yogananda would have accepted matrimony, it is clear that his Guru would have given him the complete Kriya...

All Religions teach Chastity.

The goal of Religion is not to regulate our sex lives.

It is to teach us how to regulate our own Internal Energies(winds, drops, bindu, etc.) as the means to Transmute desire and end suffering by burning away old, heavy karma; hence the name "Karma-Mudra" for the ceremonial physical sexual act.

The Mudra that burns up karma.

Master the Energy that Adam-Kadmon utilized in order to Create the Universe and Man, and you Master the Universe itself.

"Man Know thyself, and you shall know the Universe and it's Gods".




As quoted before:

Dzogchen

The Highest Yoga Tantra of the Tibetan tradition, and synonymous with Universal Gnosticism. His Holiness the Dalai Lama said:

"According to the Nyingma tradition, Dzogchen is the most profound of all the vehicles leading to enlightenment... but unless the practitioner has the capacity to understand the teachings properly, mistaken views can easily develop... Without a deep intellectual and experiential foundation...[it] can easily lead to confusion."

The same may be said of Gnosis.

Padmasambhava said:

"[Dzogchen] is the secret, unexcelled cycle of the supreme vehicle [of Tantra], the true essence of the definitive meaning; the short path for attaining Buddhahood in one life."


Based in developing the powers of visualization in meditation, and rooted in the establishment of perfect control over attention, Dzogchen harnesses the nature of all experience through profound conscious transformation of all impressions, and is enforced and realized through the supreme methods of White Tantrism, or the perfect transformation of the vital energies.

This is the quintessence of all Yogas and Religion(the Re-Uniting with Divinity), the Alchemy veiled in the Biblical and Gnostic texts, etc.

And is why the Tibetan Lamas traditionally made monks train for years and years, before Initiating them into Karma-Mudra with a physical Wisdom Consort.







Regards





[edit on 25-1-2007 by Tamahu]

Paganism/ witchcraft/ wicca are not bad religions. In fact, much better than Christianity. They are earth-based religions, and they worship gods and goddesses. Some are monotheistic, others duo or polytheistic. They believe that the creator does not exist seperately from what he created. They believe in many gods, but they're all part of one god, the creator. What can be bad about worshipping the earth? They believe in karma too. Freemasons want domination, and direct control over people. Pagans are anarchistic in a way. At least I am.

Originally posted by Grimskull
Freemasons want domination, and direct control over people. Pagans are anarchistic in a way. At least I am.

You realize that the founder of Wicca was a Freemason, right?

I didnt know that Masonic Light! .. Interesting. I never liked Wicca much because of the impression I got from the pathetic "wiccans" or claimers in highschool.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I didnt know that Masonic Light! .. Interesting. I never liked Wicca much because of the impression I got from the pathetic "wiccans" or claimers in highschool.

Yes. Gerald Gardner, founder of Wicca, was a Master Mason, as well as a member of Aleister Crowley's Ordo Templi Orientis. Wiccan magical rites are for the most part a simplified version of Crowley's interpretation of the Golden Dawn formula, and the Wiccan system of three degrees of initiation is based on Craft Masonry.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
I didnt know that Masonic Light! .. Interesting. I never liked Wicca much because of the impression I got from the pathetic "wiccans" or claimers in highschool.

It's out of print, but if you do a search on the various used book-sellers sites you can find a very informative (and accurate) book on the subject called "Crafting the Art of Magic" by Aidan A. Kelley.

Thanks alot ML and Appak.

Though people who look at something like this would think magic and witch craft are practised in meetings when they see former members founded "witch craft" based religions or movements.

Paganism has nothing to do with witchcraft. That whole witchcraft b.s. is based on christians way back in the day. Do you know where the Christian version of Christmas came from, it came from Pagan's. Then the christians decided to say that Jesus Christ (the prophet) was born on December 25, well this was chosen by the Roman Catholic church.

Yes, this was already discussed in this thread.

Witchcraft is paganism; but not all Paganism is witchcraft.


Yehoshua(Jesus) performed the Christic Drama, just as Quetzacoatl, Ausar(the Father) and Heru(the Son of Man), Tehuti/Hermes, the Prophet Muhammad, Vishnu/Krishna, etc. and all the other Bodhisattvas of Compassion did.

Thus the almost identical Christmas symbolism with all these Avatars.

Even though Yehoshua's physical life may not have been 100% identical to the Christic symbolism found in the Four Gospels and the Gnostic Gospels.




[edit on 22-2-2007 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by malakia
Paganism has nothing to do with witchcraft. That whole witchcraft b.s. is based on christians way back in the day. Do you know where the Christian version of Christmas came from, it came from Pagan's. Then the christians decided to say that Jesus Christ (the prophet) was born on December 25, well this was chosen by the Roman Catholic church.

Its the date in which the Nativity is celebrated for the sake of uniformity. Back in the day, there were many dates througout the year which were celebrate by various Christian communities.

No sorry, the 25th was chosen to be around the Winter Solstice .. in some countries like Ireland and Scotland the locals still celebrate some of the original pegan holidays such as Samhain - which is where Christians come up with Holloween or All Saints Day. But it is not Catholic or Christian in any way.. it was a Druidic holiday where Druids gathered the wicked souls which Seman - Lord of death - then took. Surley that is no Christian holiday.

and I would classify Thanksgiving int here as well as the historical proof around it is blurry at best and it just happens to fall around this time. Christmas was not even legalized in Scotland until .. 1966 or so I believe as a legal holiday. I find it incredible that the Church would pick the Winter Solstice, one of the most important days to Pagan Romans (birth of Sol), and the most important date to Anglo Saxons and Celts, which they celebrated Yulel. - thought it is not exclusive to those in the North, the Romans, Germans, Celts (Druid), Britania, Saxons, Germans, Scandinavians, Egyptians, Romans, Greeks .. they all considered the Winter Solstice a "holy" day long before the Church.

Originally posted by adc
Could it be because Pagans are free thinkers, and Masons are all for control?

You will find that masons consider personal and religious liberty to be very important pillars of civilization. Have you ever met a Freemason?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
Thanks alot ML and Appak.

Though people who look at something like this would think magic and witch craft are practised in meetings when they see former members founded "witch craft" based religions or movements.

Unfortunately, most Masonic meetings are way too boring for any good, old fashioned witchcraft.