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Paganism and Masonry

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posted on Jan, 20 2007 @ 04:24 PM
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Through connections I have recently been introduced into a new thing "Paganism" (or neo-paganism or witch craft or magic and etcetera).

By introduced I mean frequently meeting with various members of that dislocated and non-centralized organisation which seems to be united by a few common books (for say Wicca versus Pagans whom seem to find a difference between eachother).

I wouldn't say this is a Secret Society persay but that it is interesting to see the vast difference between Paganism and Masonry. Most noteably the book in common.

From my understanding Masonry's book in common is the Bible - though perhaps in countries of significant religious majority other than Christian such as Turkey or of religious tollerance such as Singapore there is a few books or the Qu'ran may be their inestimable gift of God to man.

But in Paganism it is certainly not the Bible. The symbolisms are obviously different.

And if I were to say is there a point there is - that Masonry is hardly an "occult" institution where occul means existing outside of the boundaries of Christianity or other major established religions.




posted on Jan, 20 2007 @ 09:04 PM
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"Pagan" and "Paganism" are ridiculous terms.

There are numerous versions of what Pagan means. Bottom line: People in what is now Italy who did not adopt Christianity as fast as others. Centuries back. Anyone claiming to be a pagan outside of Italy is talking out their tailfeathers.

English pagans, witchcraft called paganism - just walk away.



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by xenu brings order
"Pagan" and "Paganism" are ridiculous terms.

There are numerous versions of what Pagan means. Bottom line: People in what is now Italy who did not adopt Christianity as fast as others. Centuries back. Anyone claiming to be a pagan outside of Italy is talking out their tailfeathers.

English pagans, witchcraft called paganism - just walk away.


Yeah I'm not talking the literal definition but the contemporary colloquial.



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 05:01 PM
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The original meaning for "Pagan" was just "country folk" and it refered more to their distance from the cities where the church held most of their power.

of course it also means
People
Against
Goodness
And
Normalcy

to any good Dragnet fan!


C



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 05:14 PM
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That is a great movie hah. Drug dealing is often more than an issue than what we talk about here...-shrugs-


adc

posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 09:39 PM
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I see how Paganism could be in the NWO or related to some antient secret society. I stumbled upon a private area a while back where Pagans had been, there were little wooden wands and melted orange wax where a fire had been in the remotest of the remote, anyone care to explain?



posted on Jan, 21 2007 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by xenu brings order
"Pagan" and "Paganism" are ridiculous terms.

There are numerous versions of what Pagan means. Bottom line: People in what is now Italy who did not adopt Christianity as fast as others. Centuries back. Anyone claiming to be a pagan outside of Italy is talking out their tailfeathers.

English pagans, witchcraft called paganism - just walk away.


That is very very very true.

For instance, Germanic tribes before the Christians pilliaged them where known as Pegans. As where the religions of Britania, Ireland, Scandinavia, Roman mythology after the rise of the Church, there where hundreds, perhaps thousands of religions that where all condensed into peganism by the Christians.. all where different in customs and beliefs but where lost and without name but pegan.

Any one who claims to be a pegan knows nothing about what they are studying. A Wiccan would be pegan, but only because pegan is a word by Christians given to those who worship in a different way.

Our current definition of "pegan" is derived directly from the witch hunts, the last great purge from the Church that resulted in the murder of thousands, pegan was used a bit during those times, it almost always refered to witches.

Masonry would also be classified as "pegan" in the sense that it does not conform with the Church's teaching.. the better word though would be heretic.. I believe you can still be excommunicated from the Church if you join Masonry. I had to ask my priest before I joined just to make sure that wouldn't throw me out if I went for communion and they saw a Masonic ring or something.


What I find though is most pegans are highschoolers who want to be different by being like every other kid who wants to be different. What better way to go against the norms then claiming to be a "witch"? If they continue to go on through life simply thinking they are a pegan then they are simply confused.


Cug

posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by adc
I stumbled upon a private area a while back where Pagans had been, there were little wooden wands and melted orange wax where a fire had been in the remotest of the remote, anyone care to explain?


Sure

Orange wax- good change the ritual was for bringing Strength, Success, etc.. Likely it was for bringing about a favorable result in some legal matter, maybe buying a home.

Wooden wands... Forgetful pagans? I think they were not "wands" but rather sticks.. maybe they were used like a tent stake holding something down.

Remotest of the remote = Nature is normally an important part of most pagan rituals. and there is still quite a bit of discrimination in this world so private is good.


Originally posted by Rockpuck
If they continue to go on through life simply thinking they are a pegan then they are simply confused.


Like I said...




[edit on 1/22/2007 by Cug]



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 09:45 AM
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For many modern folks, "pagan" simply means not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish. Basically, the modern connotative meaning simply has to do with not belonging to any form of Judeo-Christian group.

I am a pagan and not the least bit confused. I am not some 18 year old, D&D playing, wanna-be who wears nothing but black. I simply am non-Christian. I belong to a church that is non-Christian (although we are not Satanic and Christians are certainly welcome).

From what I know about Masonry, whether or not it is pagan really depends on one's point of view. I know some Christians who label anything outside of their own church as "paganism." I see their point whether or not I agree with it.

As a pagan, I see no connection between Masonry and paganism. Though I'll be the first to admit that I am no expert on Masonry.

Of course the problem here, as I see it, is that "pagan" is a very broad term. It's like saying "ice cream." There are an infinite number of flavors, manufacturers, and types of packaging for ice cream. The way I see it, the same can be said for pagans.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 11:50 AM
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I'd like to dispel some myths:

Paganism is not a secret society, anyone can practice, whether alone or with others. We just don't advertise.

I personally know the man who coined the term "neo-Pagan" and began the usage of the word "Pagan" in reference to our religion. He is a scholar in his own right and admired by other scholars. He carefully did alot of research before introducing this term. Pagan is from the Latin word "pagana" which simply means "country dweller". It was originally used as a term for the rural folk who were not Christian, back when Christianity was mostly an urban thing. It has since developed other meanings thru the ages, but the original concept is still pretty much what it still means, namely, People Who Aren't Christian or of the Abrahamic religions". Therefore, it is an appropriate and useful term for us Pagans. It was coined back in the late '60's - early 70's, so it's not exactly a brand new term.

Pagans are by no means only high schoolers. In fact, alot of us have been Pagan since the '60's and are now middle-aged. We number among ourselves many scientists, scholars, writers, researchers and computer geeks - people from all walks of life. There are many middle-aged mythologists, anthropologists, scholars and academia who also think of themselves as Pagan but don't join any Pagan communities. Back in my home community (have sinced moved away), almost all of the 200 members or so were bona fide geniuses and at the top of their respective fields. We had only a couple of high schoolers who wore black all the time, etc., the Gothic look, but they were serious practitioners and firmly believed in Paganism. They didn't do it just to be different.

In short, Pagans are so diverse in their beliefs and practices (and are from all walks of life) that it is impossible to pigeonhole us. It has often been said that trying to get Pagans to organize for any reason is "like herding cats".

NONE of us eat babies, or worship statues or steal small children. Our main belief is "Harm no one".


adc

posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 12:09 PM
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Who ever said Pagans were Reptillians?



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by forestlady
I'd like to dispel some myths:

Paganism is not a secret society, anyone can practice, whether alone or with others. We just don't advertise.

I personally know the man who coined the term "neo-Pagan" and began the usage of the word "Pagan" in reference to our religion. He is a scholar in his own right and admired by other scholars. He carefully did alot of research before introducing this term. Pagan is from the Latin word "pagana" which simply means "country dweller". It was originally used as a term for the rural folk who were not Christian, back when Christianity was mostly an urban thing. It has since developed other meanings thru the ages, but the original concept is still pretty much what it still means, namely, People Who Aren't Christian or of the Abrahamic religions". Therefore, it is an appropriate and useful term for us Pagans. It was coined back in the late '60's - early 70's, so it's not exactly a brand new term.

Pagans are by no means only high schoolers. In fact, alot of us have been Pagan since the '60's and are now middle-aged. We number among ourselves many scientists, scholars, writers, researchers and computer geeks - people from all walks of life. There are many middle-aged mythologists, anthropologists, scholars and academia who also think of themselves as Pagan but don't join any Pagan communities. Back in my home community (have sinced moved away), almost all of the 200 members or so were bona fide geniuses and at the top of their respective fields. We had only a couple of high schoolers who wore black all the time, etc., the Gothic look, but they were serious practitioners and firmly believed in Paganism. They didn't do it just to be different.

In short, Pagans are so diverse in their beliefs and practices (and are from all walks of life) that it is impossible to pigeonhole us. It has often been said that trying to get Pagans to organize for any reason is "like herding cats".

NONE of us eat babies, or worship statues or steal small children. Our main belief is "Harm no one".



Thank you for sharing this with us- it helps to get a perspective from someone on the inside.

It sounds interesting to say the least.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by adc
I see how Paganism could be in the NWO or related to some antient secret society. I stumbled upon a private area a while back where Pagans had been, there were little wooden wands and melted orange wax where a fire had been in the remotest of the remote, anyone care to explain?


I don't understand how anyone thinks that paganism or any other "occult" institution wields any power in the NWO.... Look at the Real institutions that really hold power in this world. I am not talking about these alleged groups like "Bohemian Grove" and such. I am talking about institutions that everyone knows about. They certainly are not "occult" related...

[edit on 22-1-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 01:56 PM
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There are a lot of diffrent sects or belief systems lumped together under the catch all phrase paganism.

If you ask someone that is a pagan more about it you would find out quite a bit. We have never realy gone away but just hid durring times when being someone that didnt follow the christian faith would be a death sentance.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by forestlady
It has often been said that trying to get Pagans to organize for any reason is "like herding cats".


Oh that's a good one! I agree totally. We have "organized" paganism in our church and it's very much like herding cats. Getting all the pagans in my group to move in the same direction, toward the same goal, at the same time is probably about a million to one shot. However, if someone needs help or there is work to be done, pagans just come out of the woodwork, united toward putting things right.

After that, they go back to sharpening their claws, stretching, napping, and climbing trees and / or furniture.

I agree that paganism is not a secret society. It is simply something that minds its own business - so again, I just don't see how one can link Masons and Pagans.

edited for clarity

[edit on 1/22/07 by wellwhatnow]



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 04:01 PM
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I'd have to say that the "herding cats" analogy applying to Paganism seems indicative of the ways pagans think and probably denotes their less sociable qualities or their inability to be strictly disciplined. -shrugs-



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 04:13 PM
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I certainly don't see them that way. Maybe you just aren't as well aquainted with them as I am.

The analogy, to me, is simply about the independant nature that many Pagans have - and while there are certainly Pagan churches out there, you don't see many. Perhaps having having their faith organized is simply not as important as the beliefs themselves. That certainly doesn't mean that they lack discipline.

Perhaps they just don't need it exterted on them by an organized hierarchy.\

Then again, maybe your just not a cat person. To each his/her own.



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by FreiMaurer
I'd have to say that the "herding cats" analogy applying to Paganism seems indicative of the ways pagans think and probably denotes their less sociable qualities or their inability to be strictly disciplined. -shrugs-


It's because we all are so very independent. We don't lack social skills or discipline. Indeed, discipline is the cornerstone of magick/Wicca/witchcraft which is what many Pagans practice.

You do seem determined though, Frei, to want to paint us with a very negative brush. Why so judgmental?


adc

posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 05:45 PM
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Could it be because Pagans are free thinkers, and Masons are all for control?



posted on Jan, 22 2007 @ 05:56 PM
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EDIT

[edit on 22-1-2007 by Tamahu]



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